Quick Question in Alma

[Tazzerina]

So I was reading my scriptures the other day and I came across a passage that confused me a little. Maybe I'm not reading it right, but it's not making sense to me.

Alma 11:38-39

38 Now Zeezrom saith again unto him: Is the Son of God the very Eternal Father?

39 And Amulek said unto him: Yea, he is the very Eternal Father of heaven and of earth, and all things which in them are; he is the beginning of the end, the first and the last

Maybe someone can clear this up for me because it seems a little more Trinity-esque than Godhead-esque the way I see it?

Thanks! :)

[BenRaines]

It was by Him, under the direction of the Father, that all things in this world were created. Man also. He is the creator of this world and all in it. First born in spirit on only born in the flesh of the Father. He is still the Son of God.

The same God of the Children of Israel.

Ben Raines

[Misshalfway]

Yeah. I can see your concerns. This isn't the only place in the scriptures where the descriptions of the Father and the Son get confusing. I have gotten confused myself.

Your scriptures should have some footnotes that might be helpful. Jesus has many labels in scripture and being the son is one and being the father is one. He is our "father" in many ways as we become his children when we repent. And he did create this earth. He is the son because he did the will of His father and he had the flesh to contend with too. This is not really a reference to the trinity.

Keep in mind that Zeezrom, at this point in time, is trying to trick Amulek into making a mistake with his words. And Amulek is trying to teach that Jesus IS God and should be worshipped as such. I mean just one page before Zeezrom offers him cash to deny the existance of a supreme being and then Amulek called him a child of hell. Not exactly a conversation where you are going to iron out the fine points.

[candyprpl]

Not exactly a conversation where you are going to iron out the fine points.

This happens a lot around here when we are trying to discuss the difference between our beliefs and those who believe in the trinity.

It's tough stuff.

[OneEternalSonata]

2. “Father” as Creator

A second scriptural meaning of “Father” is that of Creator; e.g., in passages referring to any one of the Godhead as “the Father of the heavens and of the earth, and all things that in them are” (Ether 4:7; see also Alma 11:38–39; Mosiah 15:4).

God is not the Father of the earth as one of the worlds in space, nor of the heavenly bodies in whole or in part, not of the inanimate objects and the plants and the animals upon the earth, in the literal sense in which He is the Father of the spirits of mankind. Therefore, scriptures that refer to God in any way as the Father of the heavens and the earth are to be understood as signifying that God is the Maker, the Organizer, the Creator of the heavens and the earth.

With this meaning, as the context shows in every case, Jehovah, who is Jesus Christ the Son of Elohim, is called “the Father,” and even “the very Eternal Father of heaven and of earth” (see passages before cited and also Mosiah 16:15). With analogous meaning Jesus Christ is called “The Everlasting Father” (Isa. 9:6; compare 2 Ne. 19:6). The descriptive titles “Everlasting” and “Eternal” in the foregoing texts are synonymous.

That Jesus Christ, whom we also know as Jehovah, was the executive of the Father, Elohim, in the work of creation is set forth in the book Jesus the Christ, chapter 4 [by James E. Talmage]. Jesus Christ, being the Creator, is consistently called the Father of heaven and earth in the sense explained above; and since His creations are of eternal quality He is very properly called the Eternal Father of heaven and earth.

The Father and the Son, A Doctrinal Exposition by the First Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles

[Vort]

Yes, I agree, it does sound Trinitarian. But please realize that Abinadi taught this in the Americas 150 years before Christ's birth, while the doctrine of the Trinity was developed and formalized in Europe three hundred years AFTER Christ's birth. So Abinadi didn't have any Trinitarian doctrine floating around that he had to combat.

If we accept the name of Christ, we become his children, sons and daughters (e.g. Mosiah 5:7). It is through him that we are "born again" (e.g. Alma 7:13-14) -- that is, born unto eternal life, with Christ as our Father.

This is much more than simply a word game. This is central to what the Atonement is. In accepting Christ's atonement, we become heirs to all he has -- what Paul calls "joint-heirs" in Romans, since Christ also inherits all that the Father hath (e.g. Matthew 28:18). So Jesus really does become "the Eternal Father" in a real and important sense. That doesn't mean he is identical with the Father, just that he can share that title in some sense.