Happy Holy Days--Tis the season to take offence?

[Mike Reed]

Last week I made the “mistake” of telling an elderly woman leaving my place of employment, “Thanks for coming in. Happy Holidays.”

She quickly shot back, “No, it is Merry Christmas!”

“Yes mam. Merry Christmas, and have a Happy New Year,” I replied, hoping she would understand that I wasn’t excluding Christmas with the phrase, but rather was including other holidays along with it.

She reacted more frustrated than ever, shaking her head and finger (in unison, in fact), “This is about religious freedom... This is about freedom of speech... your company has no right to tell you what to say,” yadda, yadda, yadda.

I thought, “Religion? I am agnostic. Freedom of speech? That’s ironic. Isn’t it YOU who is telling me what to say?”

But I bit my tongue.

“I’m sorry, mam. No... They didn’t tell me what to say. Merry Christmas.”

The woman’s friend (obviously embarrassed by the scene she was making) gave a disapproving nudge, and they finally made their way to the door.

Just before their exit, the lady (who had previously taken offence) turned around, smiled and said, “Thank you for saying ‘Merry Christmas.’”

She left satisfied--at the expense of me feeling bullied and anything but the Christmas spirit.

Later I realized that my company’s policy actually is for their employees to say “Happy Holidays” instead of “Merry Christmas.”

Sigh...

To avoid future confrontation at my place of work, I will therefore opt to say neither. For the rest of the year I will instead be telling people “Have a great day/good night” or “Enjoy the rest of your weekend.”

Are we all happy now?

Cultural Mormon Cafeteria: Happy Holy Days--‘Tis the season to take offence?

Edited December 13, 2009 by Mike Reed

[pam]

Well I prefer to tell people "Merry Christmas."

I think we've become a society where we are trying to be so politically correct that we've lost sight of things.

I worked in retail for years and I've always said Merry Christmas. It someone chooses to get offended by that it is their choice. Yet if I knew for a fact that one of the customers was Jewish, I of course would say Happy Hanukkah.

But in using the term Happy Holidays I wonder how many people actually think of the word "holiday" as Holy Day. Probably not many and so therefore get offended with that as well.

You just aren't going to please everyone.

[Maxel]

...To avoid future confrontation at my place of work, I will therefore opt to say neither. For the rest of the year I will instead be telling people “Have a great day/good night” or “Enjoy the rest of your weekend.”

Are we all happy now?

What's the ratio of people who reacted like this woman to people who merely returned the sentiment of 'Happy Holidays', or didn't give a noticeable reaction?

[annamaureen]

Some people will be offended if you say Merry Christmas. Others will be offended if you say Happy Holidays. Some will probably be offended if you make no mention of the season at all. It's kind of a no-win situation.

[pam]

Exactly..that's why I said you just can't make everyone happy. It's kind of like your darned it you do and darned if you don't.

[DigitalShadow]

Say whatever you want, if someone chooses to be offended by your attempt at wishing them well, it is their problem in my opinion. As has been stated, there is no one phrase that will prevent anyone from being offended.

If I had to guess, I would say that more people would be offended by "Happy Holidays" than "Merry Christmas" but it probably varies quite a bit by location.

[bytor2112]

Maybe...Happy Rhamahanaquansmas!! Cover all the bases......

Edited December 13, 2009 by bytor2112

[deseretgov]

Maybe...Happy Rhamhanaquansmas!! Cover all the bases......

But what about those who don't celebrate any of those holidays?

[Tarnished]

Actually bytor I think it would sound better as Rhamahanaquansasmas.

I can see what the lady is trying to say though. Lately it feels as if as Christians our freedom of speech is being taken away. It is now against the rules to say Merry Christmas in most schools and in some places of employment. Because it might offend someone who is not religious. If people can swear in schools and swear at places of employment and swear on TV then why can those of us who are religious say things that are religious in nature? When did the possibility of offending someone become more important than our freedom of speech?

[deseretgov]

When did the possibility of offending someone become more important than our freedom of speech?

August 7, 1973

[Mike Reed]

Well I prefer to tell people "Merry Christmas."

Ha! How embarrassing. Thanks for catching that.

[DigitalShadow]

Actually bytor I think it would sound better as Rhamahanaquansasmas.

I can see what the lady is trying to say though. Lately it feels as if as Christians our freedom of speech is being taken away. It is now against the rules to say Merry Christmas in most schools and in some places of employment. Because it might offend someone who is not religious. If people can swear in schools and swear at places of employment and swear on TV then why can those of us who are religious say things that are religious in nature? When did the possibility of offending someone become more important than our freedom of speech?

I seriously doubt places of employment that don't allow their employees to wish customers Merry Christmas allow them to swear at customers. I also don't think schools that don't allow teachers to wish their students Merry Christmas allow those same teachers to swear and I'm pretty sure there is no problem with students wishing each other Merry Christmas. Also there are a multitude of TV shows specifically about Christianity, so I'm not sure I what you're getting at here.

[bytor2112]

Actually bytor I think it would sound better as Rhamahanaquansasmas.

Oops...forgot the "a" ...thanks!!

[Tarnished]

I seriously doubt places of employment that don't allow their employees to wish customers Merry Christmas allow them to swear at customers. I also don't think schools that don't allow teachers to wish their students Merry Christmas allow those same teachers to swear and I'm pretty sure there is no problem with students wishing each other Merry Christmas. Also there are a multitude of TV shows specifically about Christianity, so I'm not sure I what you're getting at here.

What I am getting at here is that while there is a growing amount of taking anything religious out of the world there is also a growing amount of replacing it with non religious and often crude behavior and speech. There is a person at my work who is offended by any religious music played near or around her, so no one can play any Christmas music at all. And yet I know that there are people around there who can swear with nothing being said to stop them. My point is that good things are being taken out of our culture and are being replaced by bad things, and it is distressing.

I did not say that the employees are swearing at customers, I did not say that the teachers are swearing at students. I am saying that swearing is allowed to happen in those institutions and yet a Merry Christmas is not.

[Maxel]

I'd still like to know, Mike, how many people reacted in a non-offended way when you said "Happy Holidays", to get an idea of just how common this sort of offense-taking is.

[Mike Reed]

I'd still like to know, Mike, how many people reacted in a non-offended way when you said "Happy Holidays", to get an idea of just how common this sort of offense-taking is.

The ratio is probably hundreds to one. The vast majority have responded either neutrally or favorably to it. Perhaps some were offended, but chose not to say anything.

[deseretgov]

I like it in the old films when they say Happy Christmas.

[DigitalShadow]

What I am getting at here is that while there is a growing amount of taking anything religious out of the world there is also a growing amount of replacing it with non religious and often crude behavior and speech. There is a person at my work who is offended by any religious music played near or around her, so no one can play any Christmas music at all. And yet I know that there are people around there who can swear with nothing being said to stop them. My point is that good things are being taken out of our culture and are being replaced by bad things, and it is distressing.

I did not say that the employees are swearing at customers, I did not say that the teachers are swearing at students. I am saying that swearing is allowed to happen in those institutions and yet a Merry Christmas is not.

But my point was that saying Merry Christmas is allowed to happen in those institutions, just not in very specific scenarios and in those same scenarios, the other bad things you mentioned aren't allowed either, so it doesn't really seem like a very fair or accurate comparison to me.

[Maxel]

The ratio is probably hundreds to one. The vast majority have responded either neutrally or favorably to it. Perhaps some were offended, but chose not to say anything.

Thank you.

My question is, then, do you feel this is a prevalent issue in America right now? I checked out your blog that you linked, and notice that this is the only entry dealing with social issues, as well as the only entry in almost a month. This is actually the first time I've heard of an incident of this kind this year (I think I heard a similar story last year) and I'm wondering if this is a social phenomenon ('the war on the "war on Christmas"') I've been missing.

[Mike Reed]

Thank you. My question is, then, do you feel this is a prevalent issue in America right now?

To be honest, I haven't kept tabs on the controversy this year... and I only recently started saying happy holidays. The majority of my free time lately has been spent with my nose in the books. So I can't say whether or not the controversy is any greater now than it has been in recent years. For what its worth, a couple coworkers last week reported similar experiences. The statistic I gave reflects my entire experience over the past decade.

I checked out your blog that you linked, and notice that this is the only entry dealing with social issues, as well as the only entry in almost a month.

During this holiday... ahem ... during this winter season, I haven't been able to spend much time on my blog. Hence, I chose to post a less meaty topic.

This is actually the first time I've heard of an incident of this kind this year (I think I heard a similar story last year) and I'm wondering if this is a social phenomenon ('the war on the "war on Christmas"') I've been missing.

That is a good question. I don't know.

[Wingnut]

But in using the term Happy Holidays I wonder how many people actually think of the word "holiday" as Holy Day. Probably not many and so therefore get offended with that as well.

I think it's interesting that you bring this up. An LDS friend of mine who visited for Thanksgiving was telling me (slightly tongue-in-cheek) that she wishes she was Jewish, or at least that she celebrated Jewish holidays, because they are actually celebrations of holy days, not whatever they've become. In that light, I think "Happy Holidays" would be even more appropriate, not less.

Maybe...Happy Rhamhanaquansmas!! Cover all the bases......

Happy Christmakwanzakkuh?

Maybe...Happy Rhamhanaquansmas!! Cover all the bases......

But what about those who don't celebrate any of those holidays?

Just plain old "Happy!"

I can see what the lady is trying to say though. Lately it feels as if as Christians our freedom of speech is being taken away. It is now against the rules to say Merry Christmas in most schools and in some places of employment. Because it might offend someone who is not religious. If people can swear in schools and swear at places of employment and swear on TV then why can those of us who are religious say things that are religious in nature? When did the possibility of offending someone become more important than our freedom of speech?

I think this ought to be re-worded to "because it might offend someone who is not Christian." (More on that later.)

My question is, then, do you feel this is a prevalent issue in America right now?

I absolutely do. I've been fuming inside about the pettiness of it for a few weeks now.

To be honest, I haven't kept tabs on the controversy this year...

This year is when I've really noticed it.

I've been holding this rant inside for awhile, thinking about trying to find the best outlet for it. Now that the dialogue has been established, I'm just going to let it out.

I have no problem whatsoever with "Happy Holidays." I don't understand why it is a problem for some people. I don't agree with the sentiments that opponents of "Happy Holidays" share. And I think their anti-PC-ness is self-righteous and annoying.

A month or so ago, I got emails and Facebook invites to sign a petition to request that President Obama call it a Christmas tree, and not a holiday tree. I received a chain letter email from my grandmother ranting about Christmas trees not being Hanukkah bushes. My friends on Facebook are joining groups called It's called a Christmas tree, not a f@#%ing holiday tree! (spelling and punctuation corrected). I really don't understand the mayhem or indignation.

I am a Christian. I am a Mormon Christian. I am an active temple recommend holding (okay I'm waiting on interviews to renew it) ward Young Women President Mormon Christian. I was raised in the Church, by very conservative parents. I'm not a liberal, I'm not a people-pleaser, and I'm not a politically correct person.

If someone wants to call it a Hanukkah bush because they're Jewish and that's what they celebrate, what's the problem? If President Obama wants to call it a holiday tree because there are some religions in this country that celebrate Christmas, some that celebrate Hanukkah, some that celebrate Kwanzaa, and some that celebrate any number of others or none at all, what's the problem?

It's widely accepted that Christianity (as a whole) is the largest religion in this country, which obviously indicates that Christmas is the most celebrated holiday at this time of year. I accept that. However, even among Christians, do we not also celebrate the New Year? Is that not a holiday (not a holy day, but a holiday)? Why can I not wrap "Merry Christmas" and "Happy New Year" into one neat little "Happy Holidays" package together? What's the problem there? And if I don't know if the person to whom I am speaking is Christian or not, is there a problem with me wanting to include them in my well-wishes? Why is that "PC" and not just considerate?

Finally, even though Christianity is a larger group than any other one religion in this country, and even though I believe my particular tenets of Christianity to be the most correct of any other, why does that make me or Christianity as a whole more important than or superior to any other religion? I am not better than Jews or Muslims or any other religion. What rule says that just because I celebrate Christmas, that I am not allowed to rejoice with them in whatever holiday they choose to celebrate, and that even if I don't which holiday that may be, that I am not allowed to wish it them? Why? I don't understand it.

[hordak]

Maybe...Happy Rhamhanaquansmas!! Cover all the bases......

you forgot yule. I'm offended:mad:

[Wingnut]

But in using the term Happy Holidays I wonder how many people actually think of the word "holiday" as Holy Day. Probably not many and so therefore get offended with that as well.

I think it's interesting that you bring this up. An LDS friend of mine who visited for Thanksgiving was telling me (slightly tongue-in-cheek) that she wishes she was Jewish, or at least that she celebrated Jewish holidays, because they are actually celebrations of holy days, not whatever they've become. In that light, I think "Happy Holidays" would be even more appropriate, not less.

Maybe...Happy Rhamhanaquansmas!! Cover all the bases......

Happy Christmakwanzakkuh?

Maybe...Happy Rhamhanaquansmas!! Cover all the bases......

But what about those who don't celebrate any of those holidays?

Just plain old "Happy!"

I can see what the lady is trying to say though. Lately it feels as if as Christians our freedom of speech is being taken away. It is now against the rules to say Merry Christmas in most schools and in some places of employment. Because it might offend someone who is not religious. If people can swear in schools and swear at places of employment and swear on TV then why can those of us who are religious say things that are religious in nature? When did the possibility of offending someone become more important than our freedom of speech?

I think this ought to be re-worded to "because it might offend someone who is not Christian." (More on that later.)

My question is, then, do you feel this is a prevalent issue in America right now?

I absolutely do. I've been fuming inside about the pettiness of it for a few weeks now.

To be honest, I haven't kept tabs on the controversy this year...

This year is when I've really noticed it.

I've been holding this rant inside for awhile, thinking about trying to find the best outlet for it. Now that the dialogue has been established, I'm just going to let it out.

I have no problem whatsoever with "Happy Holidays." I don't understand why it is a problem for some people. I don't agree with the sentiments that opponents of "Happy Holidays" share. And I think their anti-PC-ness is self-righteous and annoying.

A month or so ago, I got emails and Facebook invites to sign a petition to request that President Obama call it a Christmas tree, and not a holiday tree. I received a chain letter email from my grandmother ranting about Christmas trees not being Hanukkah bushes. My friends on Facebook are joining groups called It's called a Christmas tree, not a f@#%ing holiday tree! (spelling and punctuation corrected). I really don't understand the mayhem or indignation.

I am a Christian. I am a Mormon Christian. I am an active temple recommend holding (okay I'm waiting on interviews to renew it) ward Young Women President Mormon Christian. I was raised in the Church, by very conservative parents. I'm not a liberal, I'm not a people-pleaser, and I'm not a politically correct person.

If someone wants to call it a Hanukkah bush because they're Jewish and that's what they celebrate, what's the problem? If President Obama wants to call it a holiday tree because there are some religions in this country that celebrate Christmas, some that celebrate Hanukkah, some that celebrate Kwanzaa, and some that celebrate any number of others or none at all, what's the problem?

It's widely accepted that Christianity (as a whole) is the largest religion in this country, which obviously indicates that Christmas is the most celebrated holiday at this time of year. I accept that. However, even among Christians, do we not also celebrate the New Year? Is that not a holiday (not a holy day, but a holiday)? Why can I not wrap "Merry Christmas" and "Happy New Year" into one neat little "Happy Holidays" package together? What's the problem there? And if I don't know if the person to whom I am speaking is Christian or not, is there a problem with me wanting to include them in my well-wishes? Why is that "PC" and not just considerate?

Finally, even though Christianity is a larger group than any other one religion in this country, and even though I believe my particular tenets of Christianity to be the most correct of any other, why does that make me or Christianity as a whole more important than or superior to any other religion? I am not better than Jews or Muslims or any other religion. And why is my holiday more important than theirs? What is it that makes other holidays not important, just because I celebrate Christmas? What rule says that just because I celebrate Christmas, that I am not allowed to rejoice with them in whatever holiday they choose to celebrate, and that even if I don't which holiday that may be, that I am not allowed to wish it them? Why? I don't understand it.

[hordak]

Repost, save on all that typing.

I find this whole "war on Christmas" to be ironic. This is the time of year when Christians get up in arms because the walmart greeters say "happy holidays" instead of "Merry Christmas" and non Christians are offended by nativity scenes and it is ridicules on both sides.

A historical look at Christmas will show the purpose for celebrating it is in December is to compete with the pagan holidays and to many of our own "Christmas traditions" are borrowed from them pagans. Instead of leaving boots full of food out in for Sleipnir, Odins 8 legged horse, in anticipation of gifts and candy ,we leave cookies for Santa, in hopes he will fill our socks. Instead of Yule logs and Yule feast we have Christmas feast. Instead of holly wreaths being used to protect the fairies from the harsh winters we use them just to decorate.

Essentially we started to throw Christ birthday party early so we could one up the neighbors and save on supplies and decorations.

We took the pagans holiday rituals, kept and adapted what we liked and tossed aside the Gods and ideas they were meant to calibrate.

Now people are taking Christmas holiday rituals, keeping and adapting what they like and tossing aside the God and ideas they are meant to celebrate. What goes around...

So i guess what i'm trying to say is if you love Christmas, then celebrate it, but understand that everyone doesn't, there are other holidays this time of year and that our "Christmas tradition" don't belong to us. And if you don't celibate Christmas, (though i doubt there are many on the board) understand that many do, they hold it sacred. Whatever people celebrate this time of year lets all try some of that "good will towards men"

"What's in a name?

A Rose by another name would smell as sweet..."

__________________

[Wingnut]

And if you don't celibate Christmas, (though i doubt there are many on the board) understand that many do, they hold it sacred.

Now we can't have sex on Christmas, either?