lisajo Posted November 12, 2005 Report Share Posted November 12, 2005 Originally posted by Please+Nov 12 2005, 10:24 AM--><!--QuoteBegin-bizabra@Nov 12 2005, 10:28 AMSo? That makes it ok to shove your religion down the throats of those who do NOT believe the way you do? What is the problem with having NO OFFICIAL state religion and letting folks worship privately on their own time? How can THAT be offensive? Why is that a problem?←STUFF IT DOWN YOUR THROATS? Yeah right... I was in France and Belgium for nearly two years... and the Catholic processions and routines... and the Jewish celebrations were everywhere to be seen... the food in the stores changed... the atmosphere changed... prayers were being publically demonstrated on the streets as we passed....I don't see that those who settled this valley... stuff the religion down anyone's throat... that was a very inflamatory statement... and a very pathetic and prejudicial attitude...Face it you are just prejudice and see everything through tinted glasses..←Well said!........ also you cant shove anything down anybodys throat If they don't want it..........I live in a town that is very anti mormon at times.....another local church tries to push on us but we dont fall for their crappp... many of their followers were tired of how the Pastor treated us and started to see for them selfs what are church was about........... we have had many Baptisms from this.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Member_Deleted Posted November 12, 2005 Report Share Posted November 12, 2005 Originally posted by lisajo+Nov 12 2005, 12:53 PM-->Originally posted by Please@Nov 12 2005, 10:24 AM<!--QuoteBegin-bizabra@Nov 12 2005, 10:28 AMSo? That makes it ok to shove your religion down the throats of those who do NOT believe the way you do? What is the problem with having NO OFFICIAL state religion and letting folks worship privately on their own time? How can THAT be offensive? Why is that a problem?←STUFF IT DOWN YOUR THROATS? Yeah right... I was in France and Belgium for nearly two years... and the Catholic processions and routines... and the Jewish celebrations were everywhere to be seen... the food in the stores changed... the atmosphere changed... prayers were being publically demonstrated on the streets as we passed....I don't see that those who settled this valley... stuff the religion down anyone's throat... that was a very inflamatory statement... and a very pathetic and prejudicial attitude...Face it you are just prejudice and see everything through tinted glasses..←Well said!........ also you cant shove anything down anybodys throat If they don't want it..........I live in a town that is very anti mormon at times.....another local church tries to push on us but we dont fall for their crappp... many of their followers were tired of how the Pastor treated us and started to see for them selfs what are church was about........... we have had many Baptisms from this....←Cool! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Member_Deleted Posted November 12, 2005 Report Share Posted November 12, 2005 I doon't understand why eliminating one religion... helps anyone... I remember when we put up a star of David on the state grounds along with the tree and nativity to celebrate more widely the beliefs of other religions... now it is just a cold bald spot with an ugly old building... NO CELEBRATING OR JOY FOUND ANYWHERE... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Member_Deleted Posted November 12, 2005 Report Share Posted November 12, 2005 I find most anti-mormons are very joyless people... I don't think it is just the religion they are against... it's the JOY....THE SPIRIT OF GIVING... THE WORLD'S BROTHERHOOD.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bizabra Posted November 12, 2005 Report Share Posted November 12, 2005 As for the public religious displays you mentioned, in no way do I discourage or bemoan those sorts of things, SO LONG AS THEY ARE SPONSORED BY INDIVIDUALS OR GROUPS AND NOT THE STATE! Folks can always ELECT to join in, as they choose fit, either as an onlooker enjoying the display or as a participant. PRIVATE schools can have any kind of prayer or religious observations they care to, THEY ARE PRIVATE!!!!! PUBLIC schools, since they are paid for by THE PUBLIC and are sponsored by THE STATE on behalf of EVERYONE, should NOT have public prayers that are SCHOOL led, should NOT set up nativity sets at Xmas, have teachers light Hanukkah candles, or lead the class in prayers to Mecca. INDIVIDUALS, on their own time, can do anything they please in the way of religion, so long as PUBLIC funds do not pay for it and governmental institutions do not SPONSOR it in any way. Sheesh! I have no personal prejudice against religion, it just doesn't work for ME. If YOU find a religious belief that works for YOU, and it does not involve the bodily harm of any other human being, then I wholeheartedly support your participation it it and in any of the religious ritual, ceremony, pageantry, or festivities you desire. Just do not ask me or anyone else of any other religious persuasion to have to pay for it or be subjected to it during a CIVILLY sponsored event that is open to, or on behalf of, the PUBLIC citizenry, which in the USA is a very polyglot group. BTW, I also think that a full education on all the various world cultures and the attendant religious beliefs should be taught in school social studies classes so that everyone can be fully exposed to other religious points of view, with the intention of fostering a complete tolerance and respect for them all. There are many ways that humans envision the realm of the spirit and it is good to understand this and to be respectful that YOUR way is not THE way. Teachers can can and should TEACH about religion in the context of a class study of a particular culture and it's beliefs and ritual, and also how religion has shaped history and human destiny. TEACHING about prayer is different from LEADING a class in a prayer. Got it now? How much more specific do I need to be about this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bizabra Posted November 12, 2005 Report Share Posted November 12, 2005 Originally posted by Please+Nov 12 2005, 11:53 AM--><!--QuoteBegin-bizabra@Nov 12 2005, 12:45 PMNO, I just feel that the STATE has no business being in the religion business and that EVERYONE can FREELY worship and celebrate on their OWN, in private or in groups that are NOT state sponsored. The state should be neutral with regards religion and stay out of it! Folks can do what they please on their own time! How hard is that to understand? How is it "predjudicial" to want folks to do it themselves and NOT have the state get involved? Can you enlighten me?←What is wrong with the state people... who live in the state... having decorations ontheir desks that speak of their own preferences???? grief...The state is not a building... it is people...←The workplace should not be a place for religious displays, it should remain a neutral environment where people of many different cultural backgrounds and religious affinities must brush elbows as they earn their living. Keep your religious decorations AT HOME, where you can freely practice your religion as you see fit. Pray in private, in the bathroom or behind a closed office door, NOT out loud in front of everyone. Why should you object to keeping religious display OUT of the workplace? How is it offensive to ask that your religious observances remain private? I just don't understand? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Member_Deleted Posted November 12, 2005 Report Share Posted November 12, 2005 Originally posted by bizabra+Nov 12 2005, 01:15 PM-->Originally posted by Please@Nov 12 2005, 11:53 AM<!--QuoteBegin-bizabra@Nov 12 2005, 12:45 PMNO, I just feel that the STATE has no business being in the religion business and that EVERYONE can FREELY worship and celebrate on their OWN, in private or in groups that are NOT state sponsored. The state should be neutral with regards religion and stay out of it! Folks can do what they please on their own time! How hard is that to understand? How is it "predjudicial" to want folks to do it themselves and NOT have the state get involved? Can you enlighten me?←What is wrong with the state people... who live in the state... having decorations ontheir desks that speak of their own preferences???? grief...The state is not a building... it is people...←The workplace should not be a place for religious displays, it should remain a neutral environment where people of many different cultural backgrounds and religious affinities must brush elbows as they earn their living. Keep your religious decorations AT HOME, where you can freely practice your religion as you see fit. Pray in private, in the bathroom or behind a closed office door, NOT out loud in front of everyone. Why should you object to keeping religious display OUT of the workplace? How is it offensive to ask that your religious observances remain private? I just don't understand?←BULL.. people spend a lot of their life at their work place... whose the rule maker on this one??? You sound like scrooge... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Member_Deleted Posted November 12, 2005 Report Share Posted November 12, 2005 Originally posted by bizabra@Nov 12 2005, 01:09 PMAs for the public religious displays you mentioned, in no way do I discourage or bemoan those sorts of things, SO LONG AS THEY ARE SPONSORED BY INDIVIDUALS OR GROUPS AND NOT THE STATE! Folks can always ELECT to join in, as they choose fit, either as an onlooker enjoying the display or as a participant.PRIVATE schools can have any kind of prayer or religious observations they care to, THEY ARE PRIVATE!!!!! PUBLIC schools, since they are paid for by THE PUBLIC and are sponsored by THE STATE on behalf of EVERYONE, should NOT have public prayers that are SCHOOL led, should NOT set up nativity sets at Xmas, have teachers light Hanukkah candles, or lead the class in prayers to Mecca. INDIVIDUALS, on their own time, can do anything they please in the way of religion, so long as PUBLIC funds do not pay for it and governmental institutions do not SPONSOR it in any way. Sheesh! I have no personal prejudice against religion, it just doesn't work for ME. If YOU find a religious belief that works for YOU, and it does not involve the bodily harm of any other human being, then I wholeheartedly support your participation it it and in any of the religious ritual, ceremony, pageantry, or festivities you desire. Just do not ask me or anyone else of any other religious persuasion to have to pay for it or be subjected to it during a CIVILLY sponsored event that is open to, or on behalf of, the PUBLIC citizenry, which in the USA is a very polyglot group.BTW, I also think that a full education on all the various world cultures and the attendant religious beliefs should be taught in school social studies classes so that everyone can be fully exposed to other religious points of view, with the intention of fostering a complete tolerance and respect for them all. There are many ways that humans envision the realm of the spirit and it is good to understand this and to be respectful that YOUR way is not THE way. Teachers can can and should TEACH about religion in the context of a class study of a particular culture and it's beliefs and ritual, and also how religion has shaped history and human destiny. TEACHING about prayer is different from LEADING a class in a prayer. Got it now? How much more specific do I need to be about this? ←If you are bemoanong how your tax dollars are being spent... then look at some of the law suits which are taking place because private groups want to detour the traffic which benefits all the public... in lou of the birds....You are just soundling like a warped recording here BIZ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bizabra Posted November 12, 2005 Report Share Posted November 12, 2005 Originally posted by Please@Nov 12 2005, 11:57 AMI doon't understand why eliminating one religion... helps anyone... I remember when we put up a star of David on the state grounds along with the tree and nativity to celebrate more widely the beliefs of other religions... now it is just a cold bald spot with an ugly old building... NO CELEBRATING OR JOY FOUND ANYWHERE...←BIZ: Here is where the concept of a WINTER HOLIDAY is very useful. The non-religious Xmas symbolism is very festive, and displays that are colorful and sparkly DO raise spirits and inspire a celebratory feeling. Displays of trees that do not have religious ornamentation, Santa, elves, candy canes, and reindeers are generic, but simply just lighting and decoration without any symbolism whatsoever can be enough. Folks can then feel free to join in the general holiday atmosphere without having to look at other religious iconography.Why do you think it should be all religious display or NOTHING? I certainly don't feel that way. I find the holiday season to be VERY fun and I put up decorations and pass around presents and make cookies and have a big party! I just don't think of it as a religious event or celebration. I think of it as a useful and fun way to dispell the gloom of winter, to celebrate that we're all still alive and kicking, to demonstrate my abundance, and to have fun with family and friends. I think an office party to celebrate the "holidays" are a good way to foster goodwill among co-workers and feels like a reward to the staff. There is no need to introduce any sort of religion into the event at all. A festive party never needs to be religiously motivated. The bonus is that EVERYONE can feel comfortable enough to participate and not feel they can't because they don't believe in one god or another. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Member_Deleted Posted November 12, 2005 Report Share Posted November 12, 2005 Originally posted by bizabra+Nov 12 2005, 01:31 PM--><!--QuoteBegin-Please@Nov 12 2005, 11:57 AMI doon't understand why eliminating one religion... helps anyone... I remember when we put up a star of David on the state grounds along with the tree and nativity to celebrate more widely the beliefs of other religions... now it is just a cold bald spot with an ugly old building... NO CELEBRATING OR JOY FOUND ANYWHERE...←BIZ: Here is where the concept of a WINTER HOLIDAY is very useful. The non-religious Xmas symbolism is very festive, and displays that are colorful and sparkly DO raise spirits and inspire a celebratory feeling. Displays of trees that do not have religious ornamentation, Santa, elves, candy canes, and reindeers are generic, but simply just lighting and decoration without any symbolism whatsoever can be enough. Folks can then feel free to join in the general holiday atmosphere without having to look at other religious iconography.Why do you think it should be all religious display or NOTHING? I certainly don't feel that way. I find the holiday season to be VERY fun and I put up decorations and pass around presents and make cookies and have a big party! I just don't think of it as a religious event or celebration. I think of it as a useful and fun way to dispell the gloom of winter, to celebrate that we're all still alive and kicking, to demonstrate my abundance, and to have fun with family and friends. I think an office party to celebrate the "holidays" are a good way to foster goodwill among co-workers and feels like a reward to the staff. There is no need to introduce any sort of religion into the event at all. A festive party never needs to be religiously motivated. The bonus is that EVERYONE can feel comfortable enough to participate and not feel they can't because they don't believe in one god or another.←If you have to ask why religious or nothing... you obviously don't have a concept of tradition.... which is the backbone of the celebration... IT IS CHRIST----MAS Not HOLIDAY---MASIf those who don't like it can grow up and stop acting like it is your way or no way... like you are accusing me of...Do you see what you are doing? or are you just so steeped in your worldly rhetoric you don't think for yourself any more...??You are saying we can't have it our way... but we can have it your way... and you are accussing us of saying you can't have it your way... you have to have it our way...You are doing to us exactly what you are accusing us of...How does that make sense?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lisajo Posted November 12, 2005 Report Share Posted November 12, 2005 Originally posted by Please+Nov 12 2005, 11:25 AM-->Originally posted by bizabra@Nov 12 2005, 01:15 PMOriginally posted by Please@Nov 12 2005, 11:53 AM<!--QuoteBegin-bizabra@Nov 12 2005, 12:45 PMNO, I just feel that the STATE has no business being in the religion business and that EVERYONE can FREELY worship and celebrate on their OWN, in private or in groups that are NOT state sponsored. The state should be neutral with regards religion and stay out of it! Folks can do what they please on their own time! How hard is that to understand? How is it "predjudicial" to want folks to do it themselves and NOT have the state get involved? Can you enlighten me?←What is wrong with the state people... who live in the state... having decorations ontheir desks that speak of their own preferences???? grief...The state is not a building... it is people...←The workplace should not be a place for religious displays, it should remain a neutral environment where people of many different cultural backgrounds and religious affinities must brush elbows as they earn their living. Keep your religious decorations AT HOME, where you can freely practice your religion as you see fit. Pray in private, in the bathroom or behind a closed office door, NOT out loud in front of everyone. Why should you object to keeping religious display OUT of the workplace? How is it offensive to ask that your religious observances remain private? I just don't understand?←BULL.. people spend a lot of their life at their work place... whose the rule maker on this one??? You sound like scrooge...←When i was working for the school district office, i would make suckers and goodies put the in cute bags and leave them on the desks ........... I found out that one person was Jahova whitness and i felt bad, I told him later i was sorry that i put candy on his desk for halloween....he looked at me and said.."thanks for including me just because i dont celabrate holidays does not mean i dont like home made goodies"...From then on i left holiday goodies for him, but i just put them in a regular plain goodie bag....and he always left me a nice note saying thanks it ment alot, Now i think it depends on how comfortable people of other relgions are in their own skin....If they know because we put up decorations it doesnt mean we are trying to offened them, and this wont change their beliefs then they are less likely to be offended Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prisonchaplain Posted November 12, 2005 Author Report Share Posted November 12, 2005 What happened to my string? Somebody hijacked it! Here's my take on the Halloween thing. The origins are Pagan, and the current understanding of the holiday, in most metropolitan and many surburban communities remains nonChristian. Witches, vampires, ghosts, etc. Unlike the pagan holiday that Christmas co-opted, Halloween seems impossible for Christians to baptize or redeem. So, some choose to "oppose it." They do not celebrate, the use the time to educate their members on the dangers (for Christians) of occultism and other ungodly spiritualities. Others choose to offer alternatives, such as Harvest Festivals--which give thanks to God for the bounty to come. Still others enjoy the party, without concern, since the holiday is really just a big romp that more or less makes light of ancient superstition. My household combines 2 & 3. We go to alternative celebrations, and we pass out candies--usually with some type of gospel message included. As an aside: Xmas doesn't take Christ out of Christmas. The X is the Greek letter representative of Christ. As a second aside: Schools that allow Halloween parties should allow Christmas pageants, tree decorations etc. as well. As a third aside: The state should be neutral in regards to religion, not antagonistic. State funds sometimes go to faith-based charities. There are religious messages on our money, their are government employed chaplains (like me), and sometimes considerable expense is given to assure that everyone is treated equitably. When there is controversy, free religious expression should outweigh the concern that someone may be offended. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lisajo Posted November 12, 2005 Report Share Posted November 12, 2005 Originally posted by prisonchaplain@Nov 12 2005, 11:46 AM What happened to my string? Somebody hijacked it! Here's my take on the Halloween thing. The origins are Pagan, and the current understanding of the holiday, in most metropolitan and many surburban communities remains nonChristian. Witches, vampires, ghosts, etc. Unlike the pagan holiday that Christmas co-opted, Halloween seems impossible for Christians to baptize or redeem. So, some choose to "oppose it." They do not celebrate, the use the time to educate their members on the dangers (for Christians) of occultism and other ungodly spiritualities. Others choose to offer alternatives, such as Harvest Festivals--which give thanks to God for the bounty to come. Still others enjoy the party, without concern, since the holiday is really just a big romp that more or less makes light of ancient superstition.My household combines 2 & 3. We go to alternative celebrations, and we pass out candies--usually with some type of gospel message included.As an aside: Xmas doesn't take Christ out of Christmas. The X is the Greek letter representative of Christ.As a second aside: Schools that allow Halloween parties should allow Christmas pageants, tree decorations etc. as well.As a third aside: The state should be neutral in regards to religion, not antagonistic. State funds sometimes go to faith-based charities. There are religious messages on our money, their are government employed chaplains (like me), and sometimes considerable expense is given to assure that everyone is treated equitably. When there is controversy, free religious expression should outweigh the concern that someone may be offended.←Well put Chap Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Member_Deleted Posted November 12, 2005 Report Share Posted November 12, 2005 Originally posted by prisonchaplain@Nov 12 2005, 01:46 PM What happened to my string? Somebody hijacked it! Here's my take on the Halloween thing. The origins are Pagan, and the current understanding of the holiday, in most metropolitan and many surburban communities remains nonChristian. Witches, vampires, ghosts, etc. Unlike the pagan holiday that Christmas co-opted, Halloween seems impossible for Christians to baptize or redeem. So, some choose to "oppose it." They do not celebrate, the use the time to educate their members on the dangers (for Christians) of occultism and other ungodly spiritualities. Others choose to offer alternatives, such as Harvest Festivals--which give thanks to God for the bounty to come. Still others enjoy the party, without concern, since the holiday is really just a big romp that more or less makes light of ancient superstition.My household combines 2 & 3. We go to alternative celebrations, and we pass out candies--usually with some type of gospel message included.As an aside: Xmas doesn't take Christ out of Christmas. The X is the Greek letter representative of Christ.As a second aside: Schools that allow Halloween parties should allow Christmas pageants, tree decorations etc. as well.As a third aside: The state should be neutral in regards to religion, not antagonistic. State funds sometimes go to faith-based charities. There are religious messages on our money, their are government employed chaplains (like me), and sometimes considerable expense is given to assure that everyone is treated equitably. When there is controversy, free religious expression should outweigh the concern that someone may be offended.←Well said! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prisonchaplain Posted November 12, 2005 Author Report Share Posted November 12, 2005 THe problem is Chaplin that it's not a holiday that needs to be redeemed. All the evil and dark attributed to it came from christians trying to convert people away from the pagan faith. The true meaning of the original holiday was as a new year celebration and honoring the dead. It's non Christian because it was never christian to begin with. It's like telling people that they need to find a reason to redeem ramadan or hanukkah. Why does it have to be anything but what it was meant to be?← The whole reason for this string is that Halloween is a widely-celebrated holiday in this part of the world. Yet, 99%+ of the participants are not Pagan. They do not celebrate the original meanings. So, believers have to look at the current understandings and say, "Can I, in good conscience, partake in this?" I've posted the most common answers previously.Why is Halloween more of a conversation topic than Ramadan or Hanukkah? Those holidays are strictly religious, and have not been secularized, popularized, or generalized. We don't 'redeem' the holidays of other religions, because there is no popular interaction with them. Halloween is different. The original meanings are lost on most Americans. Also, for Christians, paganism is not the pathway to God. So, it makes sense that we would do nothing to revive interest or encourage involvement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ari 2 Posted November 12, 2005 Report Share Posted November 12, 2005 Originally posted by Soulsearcher+Nov 12 2005, 12:56 PM--><!--QuoteBegin-prisonchaplain@Nov 12 2005, 12:46 PM What happened to my string? Somebody hijacked it! Here's my take on the Halloween thing. The origins are Pagan, and the current understanding of the holiday, in most metropolitan and many surburban communities remains nonChristian. Witches, vampires, ghosts, etc. Unlike the pagan holiday that Christmas co-opted, Halloween seems impossible for Christians to baptize or redeem. So, some choose to "oppose it." They do not celebrate, the use the time to educate their members on the dangers (for Christians) of occultism and other ungodly spiritualities. Others choose to offer alternatives, such as Harvest Festivals--which give thanks to God for the bounty to come. Still others enjoy the party, without concern, since the holiday is really just a big romp that more or less makes light of ancient superstition. My household combines 2 & 3. We go to alternative celebrations, and we pass out candies--usually with some type of gospel message included. As an aside: Xmas doesn't take Christ out of Christmas. The X is the Greek letter representative of Christ. As a second aside: Schools that allow Halloween parties should allow Christmas pageants, tree decorations etc. as well. As a third aside: The state should be neutral in regards to religion, not antagonistic. State funds sometimes go to faith-based charities. There are religious messages on our money, their are government employed chaplains (like me), and sometimes considerable expense is given to assure that everyone is treated equitably. When there is controversy, free religious expression should outweigh the concern that someone may be offended. ← THe problem is Chaplin that it's not a holiday that needs to be redeemed. All the evil and dark attributed to it came from christians trying to convert people away from the pagan faith. The true meaning of the original holiday was as a new year celebration and honoring the dead. It's non Christian because it was never christian to begin with. It's like telling people that they need to find a reason to redeem ramadan or hanukkah. Why does it have to be anything but what it was meant to be?←_________________________A holiday which is celebrated as a "holy day" for satanists to perform live human and animal sacrifice is unredeeming and unredeemable. The evil and dark connotation of Halloween originated not from Christians, but from the evil and dark rituals practiced on that day. I'm not Greek...as an American, I prefer to be referred to as a Christian, not a "Xtian". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Member_Deleted Posted November 12, 2005 Report Share Posted November 12, 2005 Soulsearcher :THe problem is Chaplin that it's not a holiday that needs to be redeemed. All the evil and dark attributed to it came from christians trying to convert people away from the pagan faith. The true meaning of the original holiday was as a new year celebration and honoring the dead. It's non Christian because it was never christian to begin with. It's like telling people that they need to find a reason to redeem ramadan or hanukkah. Why does it have to be anything but what it was meant to be?But it is religious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ari 2 Posted November 13, 2005 Report Share Posted November 13, 2005 Originally posted by Soulsearcher@Nov 12 2005, 03:02 PMA holiday which is celebrated as a "holy day" for satanists to perform live human and animal sacrifice is unredeeming and unredeemable. The evil and dark connotation of Halloween originated not from Christians, but from the evil and dark rituals practiced on that day. I'm not Greek...as an American, I prefer to be referred to as a Christian, not a "Xtian". ← THen going by that logic Christmas in unredeemable for it is also a very holy day for satanists. THe evil and dark rituals are practiced on this day because it is used to mark the birth of christ so therefore christmas must be viewed in the same light. And christmas also comes from a non christian source. Why can't you admit it's the satanist you dislike and quit spitting on other peoples faith. Satanists will find any day or excuse to perform their rights, the sooner you understand that the better. Pagan does not equal Satanist. You can tell your self they are the same but then it's no different from me saying there's no difference between Mormans and Satanists. THey are all a world apart. And for the last time the "dark and evil" rituals performed on halloween were not common until the romans came through and burned down the sacred oak groves and put all the priests they could find under the sword.( read historical texts written during the roman occupation of the british isles, very clear describes the rather passive faith of the druids., And being that the romans decimated the druid population, it's not a biased take on their faith. The druids themselves did not even attempt to fight back when the romans culled them.) THis was the point in which the old faith was subdued and other faiths were forced upon the land, and it was then that the darkness started to seep in. If every thing non christian is evil to you then i feel very sorry for your rather miopic view of the world←__________________I stand by my argument, which is the truth. And I don't need your sympathy. lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lindy Posted November 13, 2005 Report Share Posted November 13, 2005 Originally posted by prisonchaplain+Nov 11 2005, 03:07 PM-->These days many Christians have chosen to forgo all recognition of the day, or to participate in alternative celebrations that do not include the evil spirituality associated with the holiday. What say you? <!--QuoteBegin-Soulsearcher@Nov 11 2005, 03:31 PMMy question is how many people really understand the true origins of this holiday? ......THere really was never much evil with it. Samhain was the equivalent to new years. It was a night to honor the dearly departed and reflect. It was thought that it was the one night where the veil between the realms of life and death were parted and that the spirits of the dearly departed could come back to their loved ones. The spirits were welcomed and not feared. ......... Wouldn't mind knowing what is so evil about the "old traditions"←Ok....I've had to take awhile to create a reply without letting my emotional side shine thru...(too badly).. I think that Soulsearcher was very generous with his reply's on some very cruel things said about what he believes in, a holy day for the Pagan belief. There are some who may look at "agnostic" and see Godless heathen...but that is not the case. Many Agnostic/Pagans believe in what is good and right in this world, the same as many Christians, and it is not up to us to decide for them if it is wrong for what they think....aren't we to give others that same courtesy of freedom of religion as we ask for ourselves?I think in his very first post he stated that the origins of the holiday were "equivalent to new years. It was a night to honor the dearly departed and reflect. It was thought that it was the one night where the veil between the realms of life and death were parted and that the spirits of the dearly departed could come back to their loved ones. " I thought that he stated very well, how he, in his faith, viewed Halloween.... yet he gets run down for what he believes in?Halloween has Pagan roots... Paganism is a religion...and whether you understand it or not...it is STILL a religion. NOT satanic, NOT evil...just not Christian, or Muslim or Jewish..it's just a religion chosen by some who believe in it. Who are we to bash it? I think what everyone is up in arms about is not being able to differentiate between Paganism, Neopaganism and Occultism. We know that there are so many branches of Christianity that we don't really believe in either.....but do we go about bashing the Christian religion?As I read this thread... I am reminded of the Christians and the Jews being persecuted, tortured and killed for what they believed in or who they are, and am reminded also of all the others in the last several years.... persecuted for who they are and what they believe in. Geee, wasn't Joseph Smith killed for what he believed in? For who he was? By a mob of hate for something they couldn't understand....or had the slightest want to even try to understand? Just an ugly lynch mob hell bent on killing something they didn't believe in.You know the sad thing is the killing is still going on in one way or another, before they just took their lifes, now they just try to kill their spirit. Hmmmm the word terrorist comes to mind ....isn't that what they do? Kill anyone in the name of God...because if they don't believe in what you do.... they don't matter? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snow Posted November 13, 2005 Report Share Posted November 13, 2005 Originally posted by Ari@Nov 12 2005, 01:00 PM_________________________A holiday which is celebrated as a "holy day" for satanists to perform live human and animal sacrifice is unredeeming and unredeemable. The evil and dark connotation of Halloween originated not from Christians, but from the evil and dark rituals practiced on that day. Huh? Satan worshipers performing live human sacrafice? I must have been sleeping during the News. Where did that happen?Biz, are you crazy pagans sacrificing live humans again? Well I never - the nerve! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snow Posted November 13, 2005 Report Share Posted November 13, 2005 Originally posted by Lindy@Nov 13 2005, 12:10 AMHalloween has Pagan roots... Paganism is a religion...and whether you understand it or not...it is STILL a religion. NOT satanic, NOT evil...just not Christian, or Muslim or Jewish..it's just a religion chosen by some who believe in it. ←Not really Lindy.Paganism has many different meanings. Wiccans are a religion and Wiccans are pagan but one can be pagan and not be religious.Try this: http://www.religioustolerance.org/paganism.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lindy Posted November 13, 2005 Report Share Posted November 13, 2005 Originally posted by Snow+Nov 13 2005, 04:04 AM--><!--QuoteBegin-Lindy@Nov 13 2005, 12:10 AMHalloween has Pagan roots... Paganism is a religion...and whether you understand it or not...it is STILL a religion. NOT satanic, NOT evil...just not Christian, or Muslim or Jewish..it's just a religion chosen by some who believe in it. ←Not really Lindy.Paganism has many different meanings. Wiccans are a religion and Wiccans are pagan but one can be pagan and not be religious.Try this: http://www.religioustolerance.org/paganism.htm←Thanks for the info Snow.....I know that wiccans consider themselves pagans.. And that it has a lot of different meanings....A lot of people in the world view Christians as the same..... so many religions under one single ideal. To me that is like saying a child rapist still considers himself to be a Christian. I don't believe in it, but it's how they view themselves. A quote from that link..."Most people are convinced that their meaning is the correct one. But no consensus exists, even within a single faith tradition or religion as to what a pagan is." I think that the only people who can judge themselves for what a pagan is... is a pagan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ari 2 Posted November 13, 2005 Report Share Posted November 13, 2005 Originally posted by Snow+Nov 13 2005, 03:59 AM--><!--QuoteBegin-Ari@Nov 12 2005, 01:00 PM_________________________A holiday which is celebrated as a "holy day" for satanists to perform live human and animal sacrifice is unredeeming and unredeemable. The evil and dark connotation of Halloween originated not from Christians, but from the evil and dark rituals practiced on that day. Huh? Satan worshipers performing live human sacrafice? I must have been sleeping during the News. Where did that happen?Biz, are you crazy pagans sacrificing live humans again? Well I never - the nerve!←______________________________I have no idea where you've been... lolSeveral years ago, a darling little blonde LDS girl disappeared in Utah on Halloween. Our Relief Society president stated that the little girl was a victim of satanic ritual abuse/sacrifice, and the story was kept quiet in the press. She also stated that the church was changing the way Halloween was celebrated in the wards by referring to it as a fall festival, or something similar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bizabra Posted November 13, 2005 Report Share Posted November 13, 2005 Originally posted by Snow+Nov 13 2005, 03:59 AM--><!--QuoteBegin-Ari@Nov 12 2005, 01:00 PM_________________________A holiday which is celebrated as a "holy day" for satanists to perform live human and animal sacrifice is unredeeming and unredeemable. The evil and dark connotation of Halloween originated not from Christians, but from the evil and dark rituals practiced on that day. Huh? Satan worshipers performing live human sacrafice? I must have been sleeping during the News. Where did that happen?Biz, are you crazy pagans sacrificing live humans again? Well I never - the nerve!←Yeah, we just finished off the leftovers from Halloween. You know how it is, first it's the roast, then it's sandwiches FOREVER, then you use the scrapings for cassarole. Sigh. . . . . next year, we'll have to pick a SMALLER victim. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bizabra Posted November 13, 2005 Report Share Posted November 13, 2005 Originally posted by Ari+Nov 13 2005, 11:17 AM-->Originally posted by Snow@Nov 13 2005, 03:59 AM<!--QuoteBegin-Ari@Nov 12 2005, 01:00 PM_________________________A holiday which is celebrated as a "holy day" for satanists to perform live human and animal sacrifice is unredeeming and unredeemable. The evil and dark connotation of Halloween originated not from Christians, but from the evil and dark rituals practiced on that day. Huh? Satan worshipers performing live human sacrafice? I must have been sleeping during the News. Where did that happen?Biz, are you crazy pagans sacrificing live humans again? Well I never - the nerve!←______________________________I have no idea where you've been... lolSeveral years ago, a darling little blonde LDS girl disappeared in Utah on Halloween. Our Relief Society president stated that the little girl was a victim of satanic ritual abuse/sacrifice, and the story was kept quiet in the press. She also stated that the church was changing the way Halloween was celebrated in the wards by referring to it as a fall festival, or something similar.←HOW did she KNOW?!! Dangit! SOME folks just can't keep their mouths shut! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.