Jeff Lindsay does it again

[rameumptom]

On his blog, Mormanity, Jeff Lindsay gives a great essay on how LDS scriptures that talk about man becoming gods is actually based on early Christian ideas. You'll love how he works the apologetics (defense of the gospel) in this one.

Shocking Statements in Mormon Scripture

[Palerider]

I love his web site.....he is awesome

[Justice]

I recognized them as I read them as Biblical quotes. I find it hard to believe that anyone who is familiar with the Bible won't see them right away. It's not that most Christians don't believe these words, it's that they interpret them differently. Maybe seeing them all together in this presentation will at least help them to see it CAN be interpreted more literally, but I doubt it will change anyone's mind. If only it were that simple...

It's good to have all these quotes and verses compiled in one place. Thanks for the post.

[KerryShirts]

Jeff always stimulates and informs. He is a great presence on the net isn't he? (Just between you and me, he is so intelligent that I think he is just showin off....GRIN!)

[prisonchaplain]

I recognized them as I read them as Biblical quotes. I find it hard to believe that anyone who is familiar with the Bible won't see them right away. It's not that most Christians don't believe these words, it's that they interpret them differently. Maybe seeing them all together in this presentation will at least help them to see it CAN be interpreted more literally, but I doubt it will change anyone's mind. If only it were that simple...

Correct call, Justice. I too recognized them as Bible verses, though Mr. Jeff did a fine job of trying to cover it "The Mormon Jesus"--that sounded like a line out of the Godmakers!!! I could offer a verse by verse explanation as to why these passages do not lead us to the LDS understanding of exaltation. More interesting to readers might be that Christianity-at-large has had a few bouts with teachers who've taught that we shall become "little gods" and the like. And, indeed, we shall certainly become god-like. We'll judge angels, we'll rule and reign with Christ--just what does it all mean? It means we shall indeed be exalted.

However, the belief that we shall be as God is, and that we are eternal beings already (from eternity to eternity) is still a large theological chasm. So, LDS and general Christian teaching in this arena is closer than many of us realize, but still not close.

[hordak]

Correct call, Justice. I too recognized them as Bible verses, though Mr. Jeff did a fine job of trying to cover it "The Mormon Jesus"--that sounded like a line out of the Godmakers!!! I could offer a verse by verse explanation as to why these passages do not lead us to the LDS understanding of exaltation. More interesting to readers might be that Christianity-at-large has had a few bouts with teachers who've taught that we shall become "little gods" and the like. And, indeed, we shall certainly become god-like. We'll judge angels, we'll rule and reign with Christ--just what does it all mean? It means we shall indeed be exalted.

However, the belief that we shall be as God is, and that we are eternal beings already (from eternity to eternity) is still a large theological chasm. So, LDS and general Christian teaching in this arena is closer than many of us realize, but still not close.

I'd like to read that actually. (don't know if that's against site rules) I was a little disappointed in all the (...) and the fact the scripture names were left out (though that was the purpose) making it harder to read them in context.

I do think apologist have a bad habit of trying to make just about everything a Biblical context. The Prophets teach us the Bible doesn't contain the whole truth, piece are missing, God reveals new doctrine through them while the apologist tries to make it all ancient.

[Justice]

I could offer a verse by verse explanation as to why these passages do not lead us to the LDS understanding of exaltation.

Of course, until you include Book of Mormon and other modern scripture...

...which, if we're correct, is strong evidence, even proof, that modern scripture was needed. :)

[prisonchaplain]

Of course, until you include Book of Mormon and other modern scripture...

...which, if we're correct, is strong evidence, even proof, that modern scripture was needed. :)

You know, there are some in my camp who agree. However, they seem to think FOX News is the place to go.

[Justice]

That one went right over my head.

[Faded]

Correct call, Justice. I too recognized them as Bible verses, though Mr. Jeff did a fine job of trying to cover it "The Mormon Jesus"--that sounded like a line out of the Godmakers!!! I could offer a verse by verse explanation as to why these passages do not lead us to the LDS understanding of exaltation. More interesting to readers might be that Christianity-at-large has had a few bouts with teachers who've taught that we shall become "little gods" and the like. And, indeed, we shall certainly become god-like. We'll judge angels, we'll rule and reign with Christ--just what does it all mean? It means we shall indeed be exalted.

However, the belief that we shall be as God is, and that we are eternal beings already (from eternity to eternity) is still a large theological chasm. So, LDS and general Christian teaching in this arena is closer than many of us realize, but still not close.

I do love the fact that LDS and traditional Christian doctrine has more common ground than our more passionate critics tend to give us credit for. They do tend to love to sensationalize things and greatly overstate them.

I remember CS Lewis teaching something akin to what you mentioned: That we become gods (without the capital letter on the "G".) I'm not at all certain how widespread that notion is among Christians, but it's an interesting thing.

From my perspective, it seems an awful lot like Christian thinkers are willing to admit to human destiny being really, really glorious and great, but just refusing to take it to it's logical conclusion. I know you see it differently, and respect your point of view.

It's a lot like the Trinity vs the Godhead, you can easily establish either belief based upon a reading of the Bible, so it's puzzling that such a fuss is made about it all.

[rameumptom]

You know, there are some in my camp who agree. However, they seem to think FOX News is the place to go.

I'm sure we could get Glenn Beck to quote LDS scripture. He's done it on his radio show....

As it is, I don't think Jeff was trying to "prove" that our view of theosis was correct. What he was doing was establishing that it is not necessarily a non-Biblical point of view. Among Christians, many of them believe they will only be angels who play harps and sing hymns all day long. Those who have studied it out, as PC has obviously done, see that there is more to what God has in store for his faithful than just playing stringed instruments.

The biggest difference, I think, is in what we believe the divine sons of God will do when they are exalted. And while there are disagreements, are they so huge as to decide that one group will burn/rot in hell for that belief? As it is, some of the comments on Jeff's blog suggest just that.

Sadly, some of those same people are misrepresenting LDS belief, even after they've been corrected on the blog. There is no easy way to hold a discussion, when one major group only seeks to attack and bear false witness.

[Maya]

There is an anti in a netsite where I visit and he or she hates Jeff... calls him a clown and all nice names and writes his name may times on teh subjects place adn sometimes even the answer is only his name 1000 times...

Jeff is a great guy and has many good points... thanks for the link!