Not really sure where I'm going with this thread.

[Mute]

Faith and Works.

Some Christians and former LDS have said they feel the LDS try to work their way to Heaven. I know the LDS goal is to become like Heavenly Father and refrain from sin. I also understand faith without works is dead.

EPHESIANS

CHAPTER 2

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

JAMES

CHAPTER 2

26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

Salvation comes by grace through faith which is dead without works. You can't earn Salvation by your works. You also can't obtain it by not doing anything. It's still a gift in the end. It would be like someone saying I'll give you a car and I'll fully pay for it but I want to make sure you'll drive it safely. It's still a gift and no matter what you do to show that you are not earning the car. It is still a gift. But if you do not show that you will drive it safely or just ignore it all together and keep driving unsafe then he is not going to give it to you.

This is where some people have a problem. The LDS do not believe you have to be perfect in this life but that is your ultimate goal. They try their best and some even over exert themselves in trying. It wears them down. They may start to see it as working their way into Heaven. Some people even beat themselves up over their mistakes. This can cause depression for someone in never feeling good enough. They may not allow themselves to even relax. They may start to wonder how much time and effort are they supposed to put into church etc. They don't know how to take it at a gradual pace but is there one? That is your ultimate goal to be perfect. I think they want to know how well do they have to do in order to reach Celestial glory. How hard do they have to try? How well do they have to do and what all do they have to do? How much are they supposed to do? They may feel that if they let themselves not work quite so hard they are not deserving of Celestial glory but of a lower kingdom. People just may not know and that can bother them.

People want to feel loved regardless if they're not perfect. It is my personal opinion that that is why people who believe they are saved feel their good works come after. That it doesn't matter how much they do. They just try their best but don't over exert themselves. They do it because they love God at least I think that's what they mean. I'm not saying LDS do not love God. I know LDS believe they are keeping all of the commandments, word of wisdom and other rules etc because they believe that is showing love to God. They believe that is what God has asked of them to do and that is what he wants. I think the difference is other people believe God would not want not ask all of that from them in order to reach Heaven. I think they believe God would only expect them to try their best to be a good person. I think that's the only requirements they really have if I'm not mistaken. I may be wrong about some of this.

I'm not trying to place blame or say one way is right or wrong but I do know people feel this way. I know many who have left the church feel that way. The only person that could tell someone the answer is Christ. I'm not really sure where I was going with this thread or what exactly I was trying to say. Either way I hope you get something out of it. I also hope you weren't offended by it.

[harpangel]

We must also remember that it is by the grace of God that we are saved. All the good works in the world will not guarantee anyone a place in the Celestial Kingdom if they have not faith in the Lord and realize that nothing they can do will get them back home with Him without His grace. Good works are are part of living a Christlike life, they are not the only or most important part. It is what is in our heart when we are doing those works that count. Many people do good works, not because it is a part of who they are but because it is something they feel they must do to look good in the eyes of both man and God. God looks more to our hearts than anything else. Those who get exhausted are most likely trying to do too much. How many people do good works but fail to study their scriptures for even 15 minutes a day (which amounts to about 1% of the day)? This too is a commandment that we are given in scripture. But no one sees us reading our scriptures so I believe that many find it convenient to be doing good works which are seen and be too busy to read the words of our Lord which give us a great many things we need to do if we are to live a Christlike life and return home to Heavenly Father.

[Kukui]

2 Ne. 25: 23

23 For we labor diligently to write, to persuade our children, and also our brethren, to believe in Christ, and to be reconciled to God; for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do.

Mosiah 4: 27

27 And see that all these things are done in wisdom and order; for it is not requisite that a man should run faster than he has strength. And again, it is expedient that he should be diligent, that thereby he might win the prize; therefore, all things must be done in order.

Matt 20 1-19 Jesus gives the parable of the laborers in the vineyard. Those who labored all day got a penny and those who only labored the last hour got the same as he who labored all day.

Moro. 7: 47

47 But charity is the pure blove of Christ, and it endureth forever; and whoso is found possessed of it at the last day, it shall be well with him.

[Mute]

2 Ne. 25: 23

23 For we labor diligently to write, to persuade our children, and also our brethren, to believe in Christ, and to be reconciled to God; for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do.

Mosiah 4: 27

27 And see that all these things are done in wisdom and order; for it is not requisite that a man should run faster than he has strength. And again, it is expedient that he should be diligent, that thereby he might win the prize; therefore, all things must be done in order.

Matt 20 1-19 Jesus gives the parable of the laborers in the vineyard. Those who labored all day got a penny and those who only labored the last hour got the same as he who labored all day.

Moro. 7: 47

47 But charity is the pure blove of Christ, and it endureth forever; and whoso is found possessed of it at the last day, it shall be well with him.

Thank you for the scripture references. I'm going to write these down for future reference. I know they believe they are saved by grace after all they can do but finding the point that is all they can do is the hard part for people. That is why some may feel like they have to work their way in. It's not something I truly understand myself exactly.

[marts1]

I have heard this trying your hardest statement many times. If I was going to say something similar, I would say "I try hard and sometimes it takes all my effort". Perhaps it all means the same thing.

[Mute]

We must also remember that it is by the grace of God that we are saved. All the good works in the world will not guarantee anyone a place in the Celestial Kingdom if they have not faith in the Lord and realize that nothing they can do will get them back home with Him without His grace. Good works are are part of living a Christlike life, they are not the only or most important part. It is what is in our heart when we are doing those works that count. Many people do good works, not because it is a part of who they are but because it is something they feel they must do to look good in the eyes of both man and God. God looks more to our hearts than anything else. Those who get exhausted are most likely trying to do too much. How many people do good works but fail to study their scriptures for even 15 minutes a day (which amounts to about 1% of the day)? This too is a commandment that we are given in scripture. But no one sees us reading our scriptures so I believe that many find it convenient to be doing good works which are seen and be too busy to read the words of our Lord which give us a great many things we need to do if we are to live a Christlike life and return home to Heavenly Father.

I agree with you that what is in our heart counts the most. That is how I would judge a person if I were God. I'm unsure how many people read scriptures in their own home. I know when I used to go to church it seemed like a lot of the kids knew them better than I did. I try to think about what I would do if I were God. I'm obviously not perfect but I do my best to reason what I think would be right. In this case I don't know what would be right. I myself am not a religious person. If any religion turns out to be true, I am most likely not going to Heaven.