Some Observations From The Outside

[Finrock]

Perhaps in place of strange I should say do you think the church (or God) does what it does or has some requirements to weed people out? 3 hour meetings, 2 year missions, 10% of income, lay clergy? In many churches they pay the organist. As was mentioned earlier there are a lot of requirements/commitments in your faith, more then most religions.

I think the Church's position is that the requirements it has for membership are those things that God requires of His disciples. When a person is baptized in to the Church of Jesus Christ, they become disciples of Jesus Christ. Jesus said, "If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples...(John 8:31). When Jesus spoke to Peter and his brother Andrew while they were fishing, saying, "Follow me, and I will make you fishers of men" they "...straightway left their nets, and followed [Jesus] (Matt. 4:19, 20). Discipleship has always required a man or a woman to forsake all things for the sake of following the Savior.

Lehi in the Book of Mormon describes a dream he had about the Tree of Life. In it, many people sought to obtain the fruit of the tree. They began their journey by grasping on to the rod of iron that lead to the tree. This rod of iron represents the word of God. As they travelled towards the tree, a mist of darkness arose and the people were engulfed in this darkness, unable to see ahead. This darkness represents the temptation and trials of life. Many lost their way in the darkness, letting go of the rod of iron to go after strange paths or to follow their own lusts. But, those that clung to the rod, were lead out of the darkness and to the tree of life and were able to partake of the fruit. This dream further illustrates to us that the path to true happiness, peace, and joy is difficult and requires us to have and exercise strong faith, clinging, desperately at times, on to the word of God (His commandments) even when we can not see the path ahead of us. Discipleship is a trial and when we choose to become a disciple we are covenanting with God that we will always keep His commandments regardless of the circumstances. In return, God promises us His Spirit to strengthen us during our trials, forgiveness, and eventually eternal life (1 Nephi 8, 11).

Another item of note, I was reading some comments on the anti site I mentioned before. I'm surprised by not only how bitter they seem, but how negative they seem. Every act the church or one of it's members commit must have a sinister motive behind it. I would say the reason there anti propaganda doesn't bother me is because of how dark and negative they seem. There isn't any light coming from these people - not to say they are bad people - but there is something else going on with them.

I feel a need to find the light and fix my injured soul...not wither in bitterness and negativity.

This is a very astute and spiritually mature observation. I'm impressed. We read in our scriptures that, "[t]hat which is of God is light; and he that receiveth light, and continueth in God, receiveth more light; and that light groweth brighter and brighter until the perfect day" (D&C 50:24). It is part of our life's purpose to discern between light and darkness and to cleave on to that which is true or which is light. "For intelligence cleaveth unto intelligence; wisdom receiveth wisdom; truth embraceth truth; virtue loveth virtue; light cleaveth unto light...(D&C 88:40). We learn to embrace more truth and more light as we accept truth and light. This is the way of obedience. God gives us commandments and we obey. When we obey He blesses us with more truth and light. As we embrace this truth and light, we grow in our capacity to receive more, until, as God states, "the perfect day", when we shall, "see as [we] are seen, and know as [we] are known, having received of his fulness and of his grace" (D&C 76:94; see also 1 Cor. 13:12).

Regards,

Finrock

[InquisitiveSoul]

That will be the usual picture presented by the missionaries or members. Usually not because they want to fool anybody, but because thats how they believe it happened. When I was a missionary 9 years ago, that was the only story I knew. Whenyou grow up in the church, you see all the pictures of Joseph and Oliver sitting at the table, plates in front of them, etc. and nothing else - so you just believe thats how it worked.

That there were other tools involved (besides the Urim and Thumim) like his hat and peepstone or that the plates were not present during parts of the translation is part of the story that didn't make it into the regular Sunday School manuals. So most members won't know. ( And some won't believe it, when they hear it)

I agree. It doesn't really matter HOW it was translated, IF the translation is correct.

I don't think anybody paints the wrong picture on purpose, but the question has to be asked when looking into a church.

It seems the church romances the Joseph Smith story. The pictures you've mentioned do paint a different picture of how the translation was done.

At this point I feel on board with everything I've learned. I've been doing a lot of reading in the Book of Mormon and a lot of studying in other areas. I don't have any objections to any of the doctrine as I understand it.

I'm still praying and considering everything, but I think I'm ready to move forward with the church as I've been checking it out for a long time.

I did have my former Mormon co worker inform me today that Joseph Smith was a Mason. I sat at my desk looking at him waiting for him to drop the other shoe, but it was all he had for me. I guess I failed to grasp just how damning it is that Joseph Smith was a Mason.

[Dravin]

I sat at my desk looking at him waiting for him to drop the other shoe, but it was all he had for me.

I've had that experience as a missionary more than once. Someone busts out some piece of Church history trivia or maybe some doctrine on you and you are left there thinking (and sometimes saying)... and?

Edited March 15, 2010 by Dravin

[Nikkie85]

It seems the church romances the Joseph Smith story. The pictures you've mentioned do paint a different picture of how the translation was done.

At this point I feel on board with everything I've learned. I've been doing a lot of reading in the Book of Mormon and a lot of studying in other areas. I don't have any objections to any of the doctrine as I understand it.

I'm still praying and considering everything, but I think I'm ready to move forward with the church as I've been checking it out for a long time.

I did have my former Mormon co worker inform me today that Joseph Smith was a Mason. I sat at my desk looking at him waiting for him to drop the other shoe, but it was all he had for me. I guess I failed to grasp just how damning it is that Joseph Smith was a Mason.

So does this mean you are going to be baptized?

By the way I think the the "Joseph Smith story" is beautiful. I honestly have gotten chills when certain missionaries have quoted the first vision.

[InquisitiveSoul]

That was it too Dravin. You hit it on the head, we looked at one another and I thought he was going to say something more, but that was it.

I should add, from what I've read, it wasn't uncommon for a man to be a Mason in the early to mid 1800s. Probably the reason why his "revelation" didn't shock me.

Edited March 15, 2010 by InquisitiveSoul

[InquisitiveSoul]

So does this mean you are going to be baptized?

By the way I think the the "Joseph Smith story" is beautiful. I honestly have gotten chills when certain missionaries have quoted the first vision.

I'm seriously considering it. As I said, I still have some pondering to do, but I feel far more at peace with things now then I have before. The Laban story doesn't bother me as much as it did before. Many of my questions about Joseph Smith have been resolved, so I'm moving that way.