why doesn't moroni's promise "work" for everyone?

[Sean1427]

Gwen, as I read your first sentence, I immediately thought of a quote that I wanted to send you. But then as I read further into your post I saw that you had posted the same quote that came to my mind as I began to read your post. Perhaps it's true--great minds do run in the same gutter! In some ways, I believe, the time has to be right for any given individual. And for many, perhaps this life is not the time. I believe the quote you shared supports that possibility. Not everyone is the same, not everyone has the same mission. Some are called to serve in the Church; others are called to serve outside the Church. I live and work in Saudi Arabia and have done so since before 9/11. Because of my experience among the Muslims and peoples of those lands, I have come to appreciate very much the 1978 statement by the First Presidency:

"The great religious leaders of the world such as Mohammed, Confucius, and the Reformers, as well as philosophers including Socrates, Plato, and others, received a portion of God's light. Moral truths were given to them by God to enlight whole nations andn to bring a higher level of understanding to individuals . . . We believe that God has given and will give to all peoples sufficient knowledge to help them on their way to eternal salvation."

Just as the time is not right for most Muslims, the time may not be right for many individuals. Christ revealed his message to the Jews first. Only later did he authorize it going to the gentiles. In these latter days, according to LDS beliefs, the focus of our missionary efforts are those of the tribe of Ephraim and Manasseh. The time for the redemption of others, including the Jews, based on LDS scriptural interpretation, will come later. Moreover, the way I interpret the above statement is that these individuals named in the First Presidency message, along with others, had a mission that took them outside the Church. If this is true for certain individuals in the past, it is likely just as true for at least some in the present and the future.

In Saudi, we cannot teach, baptize or proselytize. We are instructed by the leadership not to even answer questions. Yet this does not mean that missionary work is not being done. And one of the greatest LDS missionaries is a Muslim Saudi who is a great friend of the members. On his own, without being asked and with encouragement any member, he freely does what we cannot--he distributes copies of the BOM among his Muslim friends, neighbors, and acquaintances. And they accept it from him. Interestingly, one thing that Mohammed taught his people is something Mormons also believe--that God has spoken to all his people and that everyone has been given a portion of the truth. This friend of ours does wonders for the Church. But I believe that he is one who will not become a member the Church in this life. His work, I believe, is best done as a non-member. In response to another post here and based on the LDS view of a life before we were born, the quote you shared may not have anything to do with God's cruelly using people to manipulate things. Calls were likely given and accepted just as they are here and people were free to choose. And these individuals will not be denied any blessings they are deserving of.

Originially included in this was something more personal and specific on the question you raised that I would like to share. However, because it's more personal in that it involves my father, I would prefer not to post in public. Unfortunately, I see no way to send you a private message. Should you read this and are interested, just let me know how to send you a private message, and I'll do so.

Aleikhem salaam . . .

Edited July 24, 2010 by Sean1427

[Justice]

Sean, left click on the person's name in the forum here and it brings up a menu...

... happy private messaging!

Edit: Hmmm I see that option is not available for her... I stand corrected.

[Sean1427]

I do have one more thing to add regarding Snow's rhetorical quesiton, "If God wanted to help the Church, why wouldn't He do it himself rather than by manipulating well-intentioned seekers of truth?" I mean no offense when I write this, but this is similar to the question many Muslims ask Christians in the Middle East--if Christ were truly God's son, why would God do something so cruel as to allow His son to be killed? Moreover, since God is all-powerful, they point out, He certainly doesn't need a savior or anyone else to do the work that He could certainly do on His own.

Edited July 24, 2010 by Sean1427

[Sean1427]

Thanks Justice! That was my problem, too. It's just not an option.

[JohnnyRudick]

God in many instances, works in, what seems to us, mysterious ways.

Now that's a new one:rolleyes:

Thanks:p

[spamlds]

This lesson from last year's Priesthood and Relief Society manuals has Joseph Smith's explanation of Matthew chapter 13 and the parables contained in it. This is the best explanation of all why people don't get an answer.

LDS.org - Support Materials Chapter - Truths from the Savior’s Parables in Matthew 13

[Gwen]

Sean, left click on the person's name in the forum here and it brings up a menu...

... happy private messaging!

Edit: Hmmm I see that option is not available for her... I stand corrected.

i have my profile set for friends only, not sure why that prevents anyone from sending a message. maybe my settings are off. anyway, i'll look into it when i have more time. right now i'm still on vacation and might be another week.

[Hemidakota]

it seems ppl are frequently coming here and asking why everyone who reads the book of mormon doesn't get a testimony of the truth? if we are god's true church like we claim then why doesn't everyone get the same answer?

i came across this quote the other day that expresses exactly what i've always felt is the answer to this question.

President Ezra Taft Benson in a 1972 address quoting Orson F. Whitney from a 1928 general conference address:

I will add the important verse before the one you quoted to give it more meaning behind it:

God, the Father of us all, uses the men of the earth, especially good men, to accomplish his purposes. It has been true in the past, it is true today, it will be true in the future.

"Perhaps the Lord needs such men on the outside of His Church to help it along," said the late Elder Orson F. Whitney of the Quorum of the Twelve. "They are among its auxiliaries, and can do more good for the cause where the Lord has placed them, than anywhere else. . . . Hence, some are drawn into the fold and receive a ¬testimony of the truth; while others remain unconverted . . . the beauties and glories of the gospel being veiled temporarily from their view, for a wise purpose. The Lord will open their eyes in His own due time. God is using more than one people for the accomplishment of His great and marvelous work. The ¬Latter-¬day Saints cannot do it all. It is too vast, too arduous for any one people. . . . We have no quarrel with the Gentiles. They are our partners in a certain Sense" (Conference Report, April 1928, p. 59). ("Civic Standards," 59)

(Bolded section) That is the key...it has nothing to do with Moroni promise. It deals with honorable and righteous men of the earth to accomplish HIS work. Even Lucifer was used to bring about the eternal life of man.

Now, if they haven’t heard the word or accept the gospel, only GOD or the Savior can know every explanatory circumstance of the children of the world lives and in the end of time will render fair judgment based on what was given to them in mortality. Speaking from a zealous member of the church, I must not become depressed or irritated if others, especially friends or loved ones, do not join the Church or do not always see things the way I do. As Andrew Skinner once stated, “There may be a wise purpose in it, and a higher power may be operating. Heavenly Father is in charge, and he will care for his children. He loved them long before I did.”

My obligation and opportunity is to be like the Savior, be filled with tolerant and show kindness to all, thus showing gratitude for the talents and contributions of others in this earth. I do know, without them, we cannot even survive today – building our homes, powering them, building automobiles, giving us technology to the Lord’s will, and able to travel and speak instantaneously to the ends of the earth. Elder Whitney saw the same talents as I do today. Even this morning, while watching the Spoken Word, I looked at those who have not only the musical talents, but able to sing in unison with great talent.

Again, all men(women) will be given the opportunity in this life or the next, to hear the gospel. The Savior stated:

Thus came the voice of the Lord unto me, saying: All who have died without a knowledge of this gospel, who would have received it if they had been permitted to tarry, shall be heirs of the celestial kingdom of God;

Also all that shall die henceforth without a knowledge of it, who would have received it with all their hearts, shall be heirs of that kingdom;

For I, the Lord, will judge all men according to their works, according to the desire of their hearts. (D&C 137:7–9)

[Hemidakota]

I was a member for over 20 years and had not recieved any feelings whatsoever about this book and yet I had read from it everyday for the first 7 years. It wasn't until I decided to spend a little more time with it that it started to come alive. Now almost everyday I read from the book, I'm shown the reality of it's great power.

I believe it was not time yet for you to accept it. It was the same for me. I needed the opportunity to see the world for what is worth and experience it for my own salvation and edification.

Now, this doesn't mean before the foundation of the world, you didn't sit in the council along with the rest of the brethren stated in the Book of Abraham.

[bytor2112]

A fella in our ward took 2 years of intense investigation before he was baptized. He is now the ward mission leader

Brigham Young also...two years.

[Over43]

Sometimes chemo works for some patients, and sometimes it doesn't. The Book of Mormon, in and of itseelf is a daunting task for many. I can't count the times, as a teen I'd get through 1 Nephi, start 2 Nephi and stop. We had the old powder blue copies in those days, I usuallly ended up looking at the incredible artwork. Each person has to have his or her own personal experience with the promise of Moroni. And it isn't a "one time" deal, each person, after receicing the witness needs to coninue to foster that promise.

[Hemidakota]

If I am correct, chemo was not design or should be used for cancer patients. It was design to be used for nuclear radiation exposure. Besides, it is known fact by the AMA; only 3-percent was helped by chemo...that is bad odds when the amount of pain and money required healing someone an only having a 3-percent margin of survival. :) [i am not picking on you just noticing the similarity with the survival rate and amount of souls who receive an answer]

Using this analogy, I do expect only 3-percent of GOD's children to receive an answer.

[Over43]

If I am correct, chemo was not design or should be used for cancer patients. It was design to be used for nuclear radiation exposure. Besides, it is known fact by the AMA; only 3-percent was helped by chemo...that is bad odds when the amount of pain and money required healing someone an only having a 3-percent margin of survival. :) [i am not picking on you just noticing the similarity with the survival rate and amount of souls who receive an answer]

Using this analogy, I do expect only 3-percent of GOD's children to receive an answer.

I would hope not.