Worship, Blasphemy and becoming a creator

[Traveler]

On a recent thread Prison Chaplin and I had a mini conversation concerning “Following Jesus” who is G-d in all that he does – including creating. This is a long standing disagreement we have had over doctrine. When I say disagreement, I hope no one is interpreting any degree of animosity. I have long wondered if those devout believers with us LDS may have more in common than either of us will admit publicly. We agree on many points. We should worship G-d and we should not blaspheme his holy name or works. Satan blasphemed G-d and was cast down. The scriptures tell us that Satan desired to become G-d. What I think is missing is that Satan had no desire to be a G-d like unto the Father and the Son. Satan wanted the power and accolades of G-d but he intended to change drastically the actual works and intensions of G-d. What if Lucifer wanted to be just like G-d and do everything that G-d does with all the same purpose and intent? Would Lucifer have become Satan? Well that is speculation that does not really matter because the scriptures tell us that such was not the desire or intent of Lucifer. He had his own idea about things. But let us move beyond this question to the reason I have started this thread. The main reason is to explorer the worship of G-d.

My first question is – What is worship and why does G-d ask us to worship him? I am not talking about the letter of the law. I am asking about the very essence and root of what it is to worship G-d. Why of all created creatures has man been asked to worship G-d? Usually we think that since G-d is above us and different from us – that is the reason we should worship him. But all creatures are below G-d; yet only man is commanded to worship G-d. If there are other creatures other than man worshiping G-d they are not part of the creations of this earth. It is man and man alone that is commanded and expected to worship G-d. This little bit of information tells us a lot about worship and the reason for it.

We also know from scripture that man as a created creature is different from the beasts of the earth – man alone was created to be like G-d (in his image and likeness). And man was given dominion over all the other beasts and things of earth to care for. If G-d wanted a lesser creature to worship him by groveling through all eternity there are many creatures more suited and willing to fulfill such a task for G-d. I submit that worship has as its essence and core to benefit man. It is man that is made glorious, holy and whole by worshiping G-d. The glory in this for G-d is the benefit that man receives which does not make G-d any greater that what he already is.

Thus the first understanding of worship is the personal benefit that comes to the individual that worships. But there is more. It is important that worshiping G-d is not all about getting all you can for yourself. In fact that was the essence of the blasphemy of Lucifer – to benefit him alone. There is another reason we must worship G-d and it has nothing to do with us and everything to do with others. You see when we worship G-d, our labor is of great benefit to others – and not just other people but other creatures that G-d has created. This is the most important thing to understand about worshiping G-d. When we in truth worship G-d we bring about good for ourselves and others that otherwise would not be. Now many may argue that this good that comes about because of our worship is miniscule compared to the goodness of G-d and of course that is true. So miniscule it can be counted as of no consequence what-so-ever; except for one small thing that is lost to the modern religious community.

The worship of G-d is the first step in man becoming a creator. It is our first lesson in divine creation. It is our opportunity to create good that would not otherwise exist and it is not for our glory but for the glory of others – starting with glorifying G-d. And thus it is that man is in the image and likeness of G-d and the destiny and purpose of worship.

The Traveler

Edited April 1, 2010 by Traveler

[Dove]

Hi Traveler~

Interesting ideas.

To comment on your first question~People vs. beasts in worshipping God. I believe the reason beasts are not commanded to worship Him is that they don't have the mental capacity to do so. However, given the fact that I owned and dearly love my pet dog, I believe they would be worshipping God until the cows come home if they had the capacity to do so.....Tanner (my pet) certainly radiated the light of Christ all through is highly friendly and active little body. :-)

I agree in some ways with you that "worship" is for the benefit of man himself. Yet, I feel that whether we worship God or not is of great significance to Him. It does matter to Him. It has been recorded in the scriptures that the Heavens wept over Lucifer, a son of the morning. God is highly vested in us as His children.... After all, the glory of God is to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of His children. While whether or not we worship him does not effect His righteousness and glory, I still believe that He is a great deal who He is because He has chosen to create us, His children.

How true that worshipping isn't about one getting all for him/herself. I look at this differently as well though. The importance of a child of God realizing his/her infinite worth and value in being perfectly loved by Him is an essential element in worship. I believe that when one is truly suffused in God's love, "all" that is needed is given to him/her already, so the need or compulsion to get it isn't necessary. Also, when one truly carries the pure love of Christ in their heart, loving others is a natural counterpart. There is no compulsion, have to, ought to, or should in the process. It becomes a beautiful want to. While this is an ideal for me, I do realize that we are often "proved" in our desires to truly love others. It seems to me that the more difficult it is for the "natural" person to love others in all their perceived ugliness/shortcomings/failures/easy to judge characteristics, the more Godly that love is~

I disagree with your comment that "It is our opportunity to create good that would not otherwise exist....." I believe the verse quoted in Moroni 7:16; "For behold, the Spirit of Christ is given to every man, that he may know good from evil; wherefore, I show unto you the way to judge; for every thing which inviteth to do good, and to persuade to believe in christ, is sent forth by the power and gift of Christ." For me, this means that anything that is good is inspired and given by God. We do not have the capacity to "create" any good without Him. Kind of back to your first point that God really doesn't need us to add to His glory; but, how dearly we need Him.

Thanks and the best~

Dove

[Justice]

The most sincere form of worship is emulation.

[JudoMinja]

Perhaps we have been commanded to worship God, because this is one of the ways we can be more like God- meaning that God worships. What would he worship then, if he is the greatest of all? I don't really know, but when we worship we are subjecting ourselves to his will, and ultimately becoming humble.

Humility is a very important characteristic, stressed many times in scriptures as a Christ-like attribute and hence a God-like attribute. Complete, true, perfect humility is the complete opposite and lack of pride. God has no pride. He is perfect, omnipotent, all-knowing, all-powerful, etc. In all his perfection, he is not puffed up. If he were to be proud, he would cease to be perfect, for he would become egotistical, uncaring, unsympathetic, vengeful, angry, and tyrannical.

When we worship, when we cast off our pride and submit ourselves to his will, we are bulding humility and Christ-like attributes within ourselves. We are preparing ourselves, as you said Traveler, to become creators, because we are building qualities that will instil perfection in leadership. We are letting go of the greed and desire for power for our benefit, and building the generousity and desire for power for the benefit of others.

I like these thoughts Traveler. It has created an added twist in my understanding of our eternal progression and my understanding of God.

[Rosabella]

In pondering the first post this came to mind.

I find it interesting that the world right now is talking much about us being creators. Creators of our reality, creators our blessings, creators of the conditions of the planet etc. I do not think our test here in mortality is to learn to become creators in this life. I think our test is if we will become true followers of God. We do not create anything. We can only do the Lord's will or not. We must understand our "nothingness" to then be willing to submit our will to Him to mold us and teach us. We do not have powers of our own, we merely can be used as willing instruments in God's hands. We are told to be like a child submissive, meek, humble etc. The world teaches the opposite. It teaches us to become creators and create a better world by our will. Our church teaches to submit to the Lord's will and to call others to do the same, which is repentance.

Worshiping is merely what our heart focuses on and trusts. If we focus on God and follow His example we are worshiping him. "Whatever thing a man sets his heart and his trust in most is his god; and if his god doesn’t also happen to be the true and living God of Israel, that man is laboring in idolatry." Spencer W. Kimball, “The False Gods We Worship. The worship of an idol can be worshiping ourselves, as that is what Lucifer worships. This is Pride: The love of self over the Love of God.

Christ showed us the correct example of how to worship Father. He showed us what to do with our will or our desires and where are heart should be when he said in Gethsemane “Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but Thine, be done”.

We are told that Lucifer's fall was because of the universal sin of Pride. It was pride that caused Lucifer to fall. He wanted to become a god without submitting his will to Father's. He had an alternate plan of salvation for mankind and fought Father over it. He was completely unwilling to submit his will to Father and Father's plan along with 1/3 of the host of heaven. Christ was willing to submit to Father's will in ALL things.

True worship of God is having our hearts and trust set upon the Lord. It means we desire to emulate Him. The only path to this is by purging oneself of anything self-focused. Removing all the aspects of pride and becoming completely humble and teachable to learn how to become like Him in all ways. It is not the attainment of God-like powers such as creation (spiritual or physical), but to become selfless and willing to submit to all things in which the Father deems we need to be refined. It is the loss of self in which we are found and find our purpose and our joy. "For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it." Matthew 16:25

The core of worship is being willing to be teachable and purging all pride to become truly humble.

I do not feel anything we do is for the Glory of ourselves or of others. It is only to Glorify God that we submit to His will. In doing so we can become as He is, without pride. All good that we do comes from God, we are not the source of good. We can choose good, but in choosing good we are merely doing the Lord's will, not our will. Christ is the great example of this. He and Father were one in will. Though as the scripture even shows, He asked if the cup could be taken from Him, but said "nevertheless Thy will". Becoming Perfect or Whole is what we become once our will is completely in line with Father's will.

May God Be With You

Rosabella

[Traveler]

In pondering the first post this came to mind.

I find it interesting that the world right now is talking much about us being creators. Creators of our reality, creators our blessings, creators of the conditions of the planet etc. I do not think our test here in mortality is to learn to become creators in this life. I think our test is if we will become true followers of God. We do not create anything. We can only do the Lord's will or not. We must understand our "nothingness" to then be willing to submit our will to Him to mold us and teach us. We do not have powers of our own, we merely can be used as willing instruments in God's hands. We are told to be like a child submissive, meek, humble etc. The world teaches the opposite. It teaches us to become creators and create a better world by our will. Our church teaches to submit to the Lord's will and to call others to do the same, which is repentance.

Worshiping is merely what our heart focuses on and trusts. If we focus on God and follow His example we are worshiping him. "Whatever thing a man sets his heart and his trust in most is his god; and if his god doesn’t also happen to be the true and living God of Israel, that man is laboring in idolatry." Spencer W. Kimball, “The False Gods We Worship. The worship of an idol can be worshiping ourselves, as that is what Lucifer worships. This is Pride: The love of self over the Love of God.

Christ showed us the correct example of how to worship Father. He showed us what to do with our will or our desires and where are heart should be when he said in Gethsemane “Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but Thine, be done”.

We are told that Lucifer's fall was because of the universal sin of Pride. It was pride that caused Lucifer to fall. He wanted to become a god without submitting his will to Father's. He had an alternate plan of salvation for mankind and fought Father over it. He was completely unwilling to submit his will to Father and Father's plan along with 1/3 of the host of heaven. Christ was willing to submit to Father's will in ALL things.

True worship of God is having our hearts and trust set upon the Lord. It means we desire to emulate Him. The only path to this is by purging oneself of anything self-focused. Removing all the aspects of pride and becoming completely humble and teachable to learn how to become like Him in all ways. It is not the attainment of God-like powers such as creation (spiritual or physical), but to become selfless and willing to submit to all things in which the Father deems we need to be refined. It is the loss of self in which we are found and find our purpose and our joy. "For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it." Matthew 16:25

The core of worship is being willing to be teachable and purging all pride to become truly humble.

I do not feel anything we do is for the Glory of ourselves or of others. It is only to Glorify God that we submit to His will. In doing so we can become as He is, without pride. All good that we do comes from God, we are not the source of good. We can choose good, but in choosing good we are merely doing the Lord's will, not our will. Christ is the great example of this. He and Father were one in will. Though as the scripture even shows, He asked if the cup could be taken from Him, but said "nevertheless Thy will". Becoming Perfect or Whole is what we become once our will is completely in line with Father's will.

May God Be With You

Rosabella

Rosebella: Your observations are spot on. Thank you for considering my first post. As we exercise faith, repent and are baptized unto the L-rd there is a wondrous transformation that takes place in our being – even within our very soul.

You are correct in your assessment that this transformation can be “undone” and brought to nothing by Pride. It is true that pride will destroy or prevent good from being, existing or being created.

The point of my post is that as we covenant with G-d and worship him according to that covenant we are made pure in Christ and our worship of G-d creates good that otherwise cannot and would not exist and thus it is that through G-d we (though fallen) are remade in his image and likeness even to becoming is a small part an apprentice creator of things spiritual (all things are created spiritual before being created physical).

You are also very correct about Satan in that he did not create good in that he worshiped himself before and more than he worshiped G-d – which is the sin of pride.

The Traveler