When my sympathy vein is empty...

[Tamiele]

Let me just say that this week is hectic with schoolwork, home teachers, visiting teaching, activities, cubs, van at the repair shop, preparations for a 2 week vacation that is happening on Friday....and.....someone wants to call me tonight to rant about their life. I said okay, after 9 is when I am free (although I was hoping to watch DWTS elimination ). The problem with helping this person is that I am unsympathetic to her plight.

She has been in a relationship with my brother for about 2 years now. Best girlfriend he has ever had imo. He has acted more like a boyfriend with her than with any other gal before that. He is a difficult person to like. He has been an irresponsible, insensitive person for as long as I have known him = 37 years. His favorite passion in life is to party. He loves to get drunk and sit in the bar and play cards and yap with people. He went to Alcoholics Anonymous before and has gone to a dry-out centre. Truthfully, he isn't an alcoholic so much as he is just plain immature. He wants to have the party days go on forever - the "alcoholism" is just something to distract people from the real issue - something for him to blame it on when he causes his family difficulties with his immature ways. He will always offer a token, "guess I'll get back into AA meetings". It is like blaming your arm for your sore leg!! Anyhow, his woman has been trying to have a relationship with him for the past few years. I can see that things have improved for him - he finally finished some courses that have been lingering for ever so now he is a journeyman by trade. He has moved into a better apartment. He has actually made it to a few family functions and been helpful. Unfortunately for her, I can tell he enjoys her company so long as he gets what he wants, and as long as she is tagging along, he keeps her company. Last summer she saw that reality come to light when he went back to our home town for a visit and appeared to be sleeping around, as he always does, and instead of taking the high road and leaving him in the past - she chose to phone him constantly, pick him up from the airport when he returned, and since then has stuck to him like glue - to prevent anything from happening. She spoke to me at that time as well, to get my insights. I told her that I have never known him to think of others, ever. I have been on the receiving end of his selfishness more times than I can count - so I did not tell her anything encouraging. As much as I appreciated the improvements he had made in his life because of her helpfulness, I was more annoyed at him for mistreating her and felt my duty to her before him. By putting herself in his corner, any time we are together and I say anything negative to him, she jumps on ME. She defends him so blindly - so she ignores the fact that he and I have so much history and bad blood that to expect me to be glowing with love for him will never happen. I did a dumb thing last summer and agreed to pay for some airline tickets for them, at the moment is was convenient to do so. A full 2 months later I asked them for the 3rd time to pay me back - and charged them the interest, etc., because it was sitting on my credit card. It surprised me that no one made any attempt to repay me - I thought with her in the transaction that both would honor it ( my brother by himself never would have), but I honestly think she wants to be in his corner so badly that stiffing me was her way of doing that. I got paid back at that point but to wait 2 months and to have to ask.....over $1200 owed to me.

So, I have hardly spoken with them since last summer - and now tonight - she has emailed me that she is desparate to speak to me, and her FB entries say she is having man problems. So now, at the end of a horribly busy day - I get to listen/console/advice? someone with whom I don't sympathize with in the slightest. I sound like a real witch, I supposed, but I am on empty where anything to do with my brother is concerned.

Thanks for listening!! Any thoughts or comments you may have, do share!!

[Guest]

Tell it like it is, sister. But just leave the bitterness out when you're talking to her (which I think you're already doing). It won't hurt just to BE THERE for both of them. You don't have to like your brother and you don't have to do anything to "help them out" (like loaning them $1200, yikes!). But this doesn't mean that you can't be there to give advice and show them the right path. It's up to them to take that path, of course, but at least you showed them the way. Forgiveness is a difficult thing to do, especially if the other party is not interested in asking for one, but forgive anyway. It will make you feel better about it.

Just my useless 2 cents...

[ryanh]

Any thoughts or comments you may have, do share!!

Take a few minutes and think about your eternal relationship to them. What is more important - our worldly pursuits; or the welfare of our brothers and sisters? When we were baptized, and again every week when we take the sacrament, we covenant to mourn with those that mourn, and comfort those that stand in need of comfort.

Sometimes, the best way to refill our compassion reserves is to show forth compassion.

The Lord’s response to us is always filled with love. Should not our response to Him be in kind, with real feelings of love? He gives grace (or goodness) for grace, attribute for attribute. As our obedience increases, we receive more grace (or goodness) for the grace we return to Him. Offer Him the refinement of your attributes, so that when He does appear you will be like Him.

As a man first immerses his thoughts in love and conveys those feelings to God, man, or self, a magnified portion of that attribute will surely follow from the Spirit. That is true of all godly attributes. Righteous feelings generated by a man seem to precede the increase of those feelings from the Spirit. Unless you are feeling love, you cannot convey true love to others. The Lord has told us to love one another as He loves us, so remember: to be loved, truly love. [bold emphasis mine] Charity: Perfect and Everlasting Love

[marts1]

When another asks for my help its very hard for me to say no, but I am not half as busy as you are. There is such a thing as doing or helping too much.

[Tamiele]

Tell it like it is, sister. But just leave the bitterness out when you're talking to her (which I think you're already doing). It won't hurt just to BE THERE for both of them. You don't have to like your brother and you don't have to do anything to "help them out" (like loaning them $1200, yikes!). But this doesn't mean that you can't be there to give advice and show them the right path. It's up to them to take that path, of course, but at least you showed them the way. Forgiveness is a difficult thing to do, especially if the other party is not interested in asking for one, but forgive anyway. It will make you feel better about it.

Just my useless 2 cents...

You are right in that I would never speak rudely to her. I will be respectful and as helpful as I can be. I won't intervene on her behalf, as I expect she is going to ask me to speak to my brother. I have little to nothing to do with him, and have only been around them together a handful of times, so I think it a waste of my time. Will reread your advice again later when my head clears - right now old wounds, anger, resentment, have taken over and I need to calm down so I can think straight. Don't think that those various scriptures that use the exact word "brother" and where do you stand with your brother, etc., give me a kick in the gut everytime I read them.

[Tamiele]

Take a few minutes and think about your eternal relationship to them. What is more important - our worldly pursuits; or the welfare of our brothers and sisters? When we were baptized, and again every week when we take the sacrament, we covenant to mourn with those that mourn, and comfort those that stand in need of comfort.

Sometimes, the best way to refill our compassion reserves is to show forth compassion.

As I said to anatess, when I calm down I will reread your words and think about them. I know this is an area of my life that I need to resolve. I am like a child who is rebellious towards the idea that I must make amends towards people who have repeatedly offended me. That has been a hard pill to swallow. I am not arguing against the idea, but it is just hard to accept and act on it.

[Tamiele]

When another asks for my help its very hard for me to say no, but I am not half as busy as you are. There is such a thing as doing or helping too much.

I want to help people, Marts1, but in this case I feel at a loss for words. If you tell someone not to play in traffic, they choose to do so anyways, and then when they get hit by a car - you are supposed to stop everything and help them out. That is the part I get miffed about. It is 100% unnecessary - and affects my life as well as theirs. Yes I am selfish and I can feel that as I type. I really gotta deal with it. Perhaps on our travels to the US I can think on it as we drive along. Will have time to reflect when we are away from the grind.

Yes, we are busy but no busier than anyone else with small kids, church, and just trying to do our best - dyb dyb dyb!! We know that Heavenly Father will bless us for our efforts.:)

[JudoMinja]

I feel for your situation. My brother sounds a lot like yours. Luckily, I haven't had to deal with any girlfriends coming to me for advice or to get me to talk to him though.

If one did I think I would ask them what they expect me to do about it. I can't change my brother. He is the one who chooses to live his life the way he does. No matter what I do, he will make his own decisions.

So, probably the best advice you could offer would be for her to recognize that she will not be able to change him. If she does not love him the way he is, is not willing to deal with his behavior, then she will only end up disappointed. He will do whatever he wants to do, because he doesn't really care about how his behavior affects others. She needs to either accept that, or let go. And personally, I feel it would be in her better interest to let go. She shouldn't settle for someone who is selfish and won't ever take her into consideration when he makes decisions. That will only result in her getting walked all over. She deserves better. And eventually, if everyone follows this advice, he'll start wondering why he feels so alone, and maybe he'll finally shape up.

[FunkyTown]

Tam? You are smart and awesome. The fact that she comes to you means she wants to blow off steam. Your sympathy vein may be empty, but here are some facts based on what you're saying.

1) Your brother is being emotionally abusive. He might not know it, might not intend it, but he is. What he is doing - Occasionally treating her well, then completely ignoring her - Tends to simultaneously feed her ego and destroy her self-esteem. He will occasionally treat her well. This causes her to feel good. He then will be distant and cold. This hurts her self-esteem and she starts thinking, 'What's wrong with me?' rather than 'What's wrong with him?'

You will never be thanked for telling her this. She is codependent on him. She has no sense of self. The kindest thing your brother could do would be to dump her and let her develop her self-esteem again.

2) She knows how you feel, yet she's calling you. She has spoken to you on this before. Many times, it's clear. Every time, you say similar things. Every time, she gets upset, gets back together with him and then gets angry with you. I can guarantee, when she's upset, she's using your words to hurt your brother.

She does not want the truth. She wants to feel good about herself. She can not feel good about herself and she's too weak to leave. This means she needs to do what she wants.

So the question is: What do you want? Do you want them to break up? There are ways to get that, but it won't be by telling her the truth. It'll only be by getting her to realize the truth herself, which you can't do if she's always defending your brother.

[Guest]

Funky, why are you still single? You are the most emotionally stable guy I know on this forum judging by your posts. Your wife will be one lucky girl.

Great advice, man!

[Tamiele]

So the question is: What do you want? Do you want them to break up? There are ways to get that, but it won't be by telling her the truth. It'll only be by getting her to realize the truth herself, which you can't do if she's always defending your brother.

What I want would be for them to remain together - for the reason stated that he lives a markedly better life when she is around (still much improvement needed, but a change nonetheless). Having said that, my first concern is for her above my own desires - and knowing him as I do, I understand how he treats her therefore I will advise her to protect herself first.

She didn't actually call last night. I waited up until 10:30 but heard nothing. I emailed her this AM - she said oh, she was with my brother and he was being nicer. She had news for me though - he has decided to go back to our home town for a MONTH to "sort things out". My first thought was to this fabulous job he got in January, with a company that he has been trying to get on to for years. My guess is he will dump it - and that is likely because he has partied and missed work and ticked them off already. Back in our home town, he gets together with old friends and it is a complete drinkfest. You see what I mean??? One ridiculous move after another. This is why I emotionally wash my hands of it. To invest anything in him, just puts you on an emotional roller coaster. In the past couple of years I have removed myself from his life - and let him make his mistakes and live with his consequences. If my mother chooses to bail him out time after time, it isn't my affair any longer. And the saga continues.....

[justaname]

You asked for thoughts, so Ill give them. Dont hate me for it!

My thought about your post was the fact that you started off by saying how incredibly busy this week is for you. Then, I proceed to multiple, lengthy accounts of what is going on with your brother and his gf. You are obviously finding sufficient time in your hectic schedule to post in this forum. It seems that you are wanting someone to empathize with your situation, which is probably exactly what your brother's gf is wanting to do when she talks with you. She might just want to vent, like you. So, maybe instead of responding to this with the latest update about your brother, maybe you could put your time and energy into trying to help this woman who is seeking your help. Sorry to be so blunt.

[Tamiele]

You asked for thoughts, so Ill give them. Dont hate me for it!

My thought about your post was the fact that you started off by saying how incredibly busy this week is for you. Then, I proceed to multiple, lengthy accounts of what is going on with your brother and his gf. You are obviously finding sufficient time in your hectic schedule to post in this forum. It seems that you are wanting someone to empathize with your situation, which is probably exactly what your brother's gf is wanting to do when she talks with you. She might just want to vent, like you. So, maybe instead of responding to this with the latest update about your brother, maybe you could put your time and energy into trying to help this woman who is seeking your help. Sorry to be so blunt.

Ouch. This post is extremely hurtful. You don't know me, nor my situation, and yet you give me a verbal smackdown as I try to work through a family issue. You made correct observations - but made me out to be the bad guy in this scenerio. I am just trying to cope with it and thought I could talk it out here, amongst people who have shown how great they are at understanding and offering advice. I come here to do the same for others, if I can help.

Edited April 23, 2010 by Tamiele

[justaname]

You are right, I dont know you or your whole situation. I know exactly how much everyone else knows on here. Im not going to play psychotherapist and label anyone as codependent, or call someone emotionally abusive. With that limited knowledge, I recommended that you be empathetic to the situation, as you are wanting others to empathize with you. This woman is seeking advice from you, as you are seeking advice here. I had no intention of making you out to be the 'bad guy'. But you asked for thoughts, and I gave you mine. Some advice you get is good, some is bad. If you feel mine is bad, then throw it in the garbage.

[FunkyTown]

You are right, I dont know you or your whole situation. I know exactly how much everyone else knows on here. Im not going to play psychotherapist and label anyone as codependent, or call someone emotionally abusive. With that limited knowledge, I recommended that you be empathetic to the situation, as you are wanting others to empathize with you. This woman is seeking advice from you, as you are seeking advice here. I had no intention of making you out to be the 'bad guy'. But you asked for thoughts, and I gave you mine. Some advice you get is good, some is bad. If you feel mine is bad, then throw it in the garbage.

I think that pwn call was for me, Tam.