Nation of Islam and LDS

[Hemidakota]

Up until Mohammad became a war monger, the parallels between Joseph and he were pretty intriguing. Even M's description of revelation and how it left him spent afterward mirrors JS's details of the matter...

I am not versed well enough in the subject to express any sort of confidence in this pet speculation, but with the couple of books I've read, I wonder if Mohammad was a fallen prophet? Seems like things were on track early on... but then power and war altered his course...

There are vast differences from Mohammed visitation the cave in receiving the angel of light, claiming to be Gabriel, than of the true order of a calling to a dispensational prophet by the hand of GOD. All of these prophets are called of GOD, is so by a direct interaction and not by an angel of light. Neither this was done in a cave.

Joseph never undertook warring against his neighbors by the blood of the sword [only in self-defense] with the exception of a spiritual warfare against evil.

One was called of GOD and the other was not called by GOD. This is the notable difference.

[Hemidakota]

That's also my understanding, that Malcom X had a change of heart when he went on his pilgrimage, as he saw that Muslims were from different races.

Would Malcom X joined the church if he saw the diversity of the people?

[FunkyTown]

So you're saying that God would never call his people to war?

"Saul slew his thousands and David his tens of thousands"?

Samson?

None of this ringing a bell?

There are vast differences from Mohammed visitation the cave in receiving the angel of light, claiming to be Gabriel, than of the true order of a calling to a dispensational prophet by the hand of GOD. All of these prophets are called of GOD, is so by a direct interaction and not by an angel of light. Neither this was done in a cave.

Joseph never undertook warring against his neighbors by the blood of the sword [only in self-defense] with the exception of a spiritual warfare against evil.

One was called of GOD and the other was not called by GOD. This is the notable difference.

[Hemidakota]

Joseph versus Mohammed is the subject. I am well verse in the OT. There is no King Saul here to talk about.

[FunkyTown]

Joseph versus Mohammed is the subject. I am well verse in the OT. There is no King Saul here to talk about.

You specifically said 'These prophets', which indicates that you were referring to prophets in the generic. Here, I'll show you:

There are vast differences from Mohammed visitation the cave in receiving the angel of light, claiming to be Gabriel, than of the true order of a calling to a dispensational prophet by the hand of GOD. All of these prophets are called of GOD, is so by a direct interaction and not by an angel of light.

Now, I don't want to insult you, Hemi. I had thought you merely had forgotten that God did indeed call upon His people to war in the past.

So that I don't insult you, can you think of any point when a prophet was visited by an Angel rather than a direct visitation by God?

[Hemidakota]

You specifically said 'These prophets', which indicates that you were referring to prophets in the generic. Here, I'll show you:

Mohammed or its current members would claim him as a DISPENSATIONAL PROPHET. A restoration is usually done by restoration prophets who are called by the Godhead and not angels. There are only seven that we can account for...rings a similar pattern to the seven arch-angels, which Joseph Smith is the first and yet last one to this earth. Michael is number seven and is first to be called forth into this life. Saul was not a prophet and we are not talking specifically about any former king but a comparison of Joseph and Mohammad.

Now, I don't want to insult you, Hemi. I had thought you merely had forgotten that God did indeed call upon His people to war in the past.

Sorry…misinterpretation of what I was reading.

So that I don't insult you, can you think of any point when a prophet was visited by an Angel rather than a direct visitation by God?

Knowing Mohammad did not know how to discern the difference between angels of GOD [light] or one who appears in a light of fake glory, he could easily been deceived.

Even past called non-dispensational prophets are called at first by angels but soon-or-later, the Godhead will make its presence known with them. One case that we are well versed in is a dispensational prophet called Moses. This was done by the Son visiting Moses by a voice in a burning bush but later through spirit maturity, he received the Godhead and was called officially. It is still the Godhead who will make their presence known that founding prophet. Minor Prophets [non-dispensational] or members of high pre-mortal status may receive an Angel of Light or ministering beings prior to the Godhead appearance. All-in-all, they will still require that personal meeting to be a true witness of the Godhead. Nephi was considered a non-dispensational prophet; he did not receive at first the Godhead but saw or converse with ministering spirits. Later, through his own accord, he did in fact was a witness of the Godhead. This is unexplainable pattern for most to understand but it lies with GOD in determining when and how it is done but not with the seven.

Could Mohammad be a dispensational prophet? No. Could Mohammad be called a minor prophet, if it is the same gospel given to all of those who are called by GOD formerly and in the future? There is but one form of the Gospel that is given to this world.

[Matthew0059]

Just to avoid confusion-

There's a difference between the Nation of Islam and the Islamic religion. The Nation of Islam is very radical in theology and application of said theology.

[rameumptom]

Would Malcom X joined the church if he saw the diversity of the people?

Though not a member of NoI, Eldridge Cleaver did join the Church after he returned from exile in Russia/Cuba. Cleon Skousen helped bring him in.

[rameumptom]

There are vast differences from Mohammed visitation the cave in receiving the angel of light, claiming to be Gabriel, than of the true order of a calling to a dispensational prophet by the hand of GOD. All of these prophets are called of GOD, is so by a direct interaction and not by an angel of light. Neither this was done in a cave.

Joseph never undertook warring against his neighbors by the blood of the sword [only in self-defense] with the exception of a spiritual warfare against evil.

One was called of GOD and the other was not called by GOD. This is the notable difference.

I see things differently.

We find that:

speeches by apostles George A. Smith and Parley P. Pratt in 1855 evoked more positive traditional interpretations: that Islam, fulfilling biblical promises made to Ishmael (Gen. 21), was divinely instigated to "scourge" apostate Christianity and to curb idolatry. Perhaps unknowingly paraphrasing Muhammad ibn Abd al-Wahhab (d. 1792), George A. Smith applied historical judgment to Islam's experience: "As they abode in the teachings which Mahomet gave them,…they were united and prospered; but when they ceased to do this, they lost their power and influence" (pp. 34-35). More recently, perhaps in the context of the Church's growth to global dimensions, Muslim cultures have figured prominently in dicta—such as those by President Spencer W. Kimball and Elders Howard W. Hunter, Bruce R. McConkie, and Carlos E. Asay—stressing that God is no respecter of persons on grounds of race or color. In the "Easter Message" of February 15, 1978, the LDS First Presidency wrote that Muhammad and other nonbiblical religious leaders and philosophers "received a portion of God's light. Moral truths were given to them by God to enlighten whole nations." On balance, Mormon teachings thus seem to have cast Islam in a positive historical role.

Islam

So, Mohammed was inspired of God. He may have been taught by an angel of light, Gabriel. And the wars he pushed may have been to castigate the pagans and apostate Christians for disobeying God's command.

Mohammed appeared during a time of great apostasy. He brought truths and light to a people, where in North Africa and in the Arabian peninsula were worshiping idols.

For most of the early years of the Church, the focus was not on the First Vision, but on the visit of Moroni, an angel of light, to Joseph Smith.

Joseph Smith gathered several hundred LDS men from Ohio to march on Missouri. He saw the wickedness of those in Missouri, and felt God had called on him to declare war, and even fight a war. Joseph's words in Missouri and Nauvoo were sometimes very war-like, as Richard Bushman notes in Rough Stone Rolling.

So, historically and by the teachings of LDS leaders, we can say that Mohammed WAS called of God, was a holy warrior, and was inspired. The difference is, we believe Joseph Smith to have been called to a higher calling, not just to receive some light and truth, but to receive all necessary to exalt mankind.

Perhaps the other important differences between the two include:

1. How Jesus is viewed. Joseph Smith saw him as the literal son of God. Mohammed saw him as a prophet, akin to Mohammed himself.

2. Witnesses. Mohammed was the only one to see Gabriel or any of the miracles attested to him. Joseph Smith had witnesses to many of his visions and miracles.

3. Priesthood authority and power were not a part of Mohammed's understanding nor teachings. They were central to Joseph's restoration.

4. Understanding of God: strictly monotheistic in Islam, while monolatry is believed in Mormonism.

Similarities beyond the ones noted above, include:

1. A belief in sacred objects: Islam - the black stone of the Ka'bah in Mecca. Mormon - Urim and Thummim/seer stone

2. Sacred Rites: Islam - 5x daily prayer, trip to Mecca. Mormon - prayer in temple, trip to temple

3. Scripture: Islam - additional scripture to Bible, the Q'uran. Mormon - additional scripture to Bible, including the BoM.

So there are some similarities, but also major differences in the teachings themselves.