Death Sentence

[prisonchaplain]

Originally posted by sgallan@Jan 10 2006, 07:08 AM

1. As a culture, more strongly discourage premarital sex and cohabitation.

Genie is out of the bottle. How do you get it back in?

"I told you to get back in that bottle, you troublemaker!" Well...that might not work.

Seriously, people use to smoke like chimneys. The movie stars did it. It was cool. The genie was out of the bottle. In my life time it's changed from pervasive, to acceptable, to tolerable, to socially unpleasant, to where it is now almost considered a social disease. We've taxed cigarettes, in Tacoma, WA smokers must be at least 25 feet away from the entrance of any building open to public traffic.

If we got serious about the huge social costs of premarital sex and cohabitation, I can envision it becoming something weak people do. The transition might not be as extreme as what happened with smoking, but I'm hopeful we could greatly reduce current rates.

What about the 40-50% of the people who don't attend church?

. That would be in excess of 95% in my region. In a general sense, there is a need for men to interact in healthy ways. Most men do not have close male friends. They do not have someone to "bounce things off of." It used to be men bowled in leagues, played cards, watched ballgames together, etc. I'm wondering if as we've become more isolated, we've become more skewed in our thinking. Sgallan, one of the reasons you're such a healthy parent may well be your heavy involvement with other wrestling parents. I'm not sure how society makes this happen, but I think a huge help in this problem would be for men to get together more. We can say things amongst ourselves that we cannot discuss with women.

Why does the mom always get the kids? I am a way better parent than my wife.

←

Well, of course she doesn't. Kudos to you for being a real man for your child. My brother in law had to do the same for his two children for several years because his first wife got hooked on drugs and bad behavior.

In my responses I was grappling with the most common problems in our society...and usually it's primarily the men. Sgallan, my brother in law, and men like you shine because you are, unfortunately, the exceptions that prove the rule.

[prisonchaplain]

Originally posted by Aristotle@Jan 10 2006, 08:15 AM

In our Church, we need to strengthen the women's auxiliary so that the women can function as a sisterhood by being allowed to express their true thoughts and feelings (see Mormon Women/Prozac) without fear of being censured or medicated.  And I'm not talking about a group gossip session!

I've read a few articles that suggest that Mormonism may share a malady common amongst more fundamentalist Christian groups--the need to give the appearance of perfection. I'm supposed to be happy, I'm supposed to be fulfilled, I'm supposed to be so mightily blessed as I work 40+ hours a week, shuttle the kids around, do the housecleaning, laundry, attend the religious meetings, do my personal religious activities (Scripture reading, prayer, etc.), and... of course get my 8 hours of rest a day! Hello? What's wrong with this picture?

The Bible says we are to rejoice with those who rejoice. I'm not afraid to testify that I got a raise at work, even though another dear saint might have lost his/her job. My spiritual family can rejoice with me. I'm not afraid to ask for prayer because I lost my job. My brothers and sisters will not judge me for losing my job, think me incompetent, or that God is punishing me. They will pray for me, and they will mourn with me, if necessary. A church, regardless of the flag that flies overhead, that is emotionally open will foster more spiritual growth and health, than one in which forced-happiness, forced blessedness, forced faith testimonies are the norm.

If men are not paying attention to their priesthood leaders when counsel is reiterated from the prophet for men to respect their wives, then they should start listening instead of dozing.  Abuse of spouse and child means "amen to the priesthood".

I'm guessing that more often than not, the abusers are not at those meetings. They might still wear the religious name, but they are not engaged to the church. Sociologists are now saying that men who are active in religious life are far LESS likely to abuse than those who only claim the name.

When someone commits a transgression (or a crime), they shouldn't be shamed and ostracized.  Rehabilitation is necessary, both in the home and in the church, before it enters into the prison system.  If one goes to prison, there should be support groups, counseling, job training and spiritual guidance available for those prisoners who wish to change their lives around by preparing them to re-enter society.  What's the old saying? An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure?

Actually, it would be healthy if we were capable of feeling a bit more shame. Ostracization won't help. But it's healthy to be ashamed of shameful activities. Redemption is so powerful. It's not cheap, but it can be total. That's why I know I'm going to heaven. I've lied, I've been lazy, I've been negligent, I've often done less than my best...but I'm forgiven, and I am moving on with Jesus towards the mark...towards my prize. I know I have it, so I do not hang my head in resignation. I walk in victory. If I fall or fail. I stop. I assess. I judge myself, so God won't have to. I repent. I receive the forgiveness that comes with sincerity. And, I move on with my Lord.

Prison can be a place of redemption, if the inmate wants it. Programs are not plentiful, but there are some. Most prisons have a lot of religious programming, because the instructors tend to be volunteers. Government likes free labor. So, we'll do our part. But, Sister A. is right--prevention is cheaper and more effective...especially when it comes from the houses of God.

[prisonchaplain]

Originally posted by Traveler@Jan 10 2006, 08:19 AM

Prison is not punishment - Those that are sent to prison are more likely to commit a crime and not likely to reform or change their ways.  In fact there are even some that commit crimes just to get back to prison.  Prison is an inconvenience for some but is not enough of punishment to make any real difference.

A few reminders may help here:

1. We're discussing the death penalty--something reserved for the most blatant premeditated murders. So, the alternative sentence is life imprisonment.

2. So...even if they do not change their ways--they're not getting out! Life. Their world is now behind the walls. Folks like me get to deal with them.

3. Some say that the death penalty means no possiblity of the murderer commiting another crime. Granted, he may murder in prison, but in reality, the likelyhood that a lifer is going to murder someone again is quite low.

4. Prison is punishment. Even staff members in many correctional systems are required to retire relatively early, due to the high stress of the job environment. We're only here 40 hours a week, vs. 168 for the inmates.

[sgallan]

If we got serious about the huge social costs of premarital sex and cohabitation, I can envision it becoming something weak people do. The transition might not be as extreme as what happened with smoking, but I'm hopeful we could greatly reduce current rates.

I dunno. I can see it working for the young. Even being a good idea. But I'll tell you what..... I have no plans on marrying again. Nor do I plan on being celibate. So for me it will probably be cohabitation. Once bitten twice shy I guess....

[prisonchaplain]

Originally posted by sgallan@Jan 10 2006, 07:47 PM

I dunno. I can see it working for the young. Even being a good idea. But I'll tell you what..... I have no plans on marrying again. Nor do I plan on being celibate. So for me it will probably be cohabitation. Once bitten twice shy I guess....

←

You enjoy being the exception to the rule, don't you? Any public campaign meant to reduce premarital sex and cohabitation would probably be directed towards upper middle school and high school students. People in the mid-twenties and older who choose to engage in these activities are usually old enough to have the means to cope with the aftermath, whereas teens who get pregnant out of wedlock quite often share their burden with society (both financially, and by raising children with signficant "extra baggage").

[sgallan]

You enjoy being the exception to the rule, don't you?

LOL.... I am just another pea in the pod in my family and peer group. Lets see.... my mom and dad didn't cohabitate. They got divorced after 20 years. My dad and step-mom did cohabitate and are 25 years and going strong. My brothers first marraige he didn't.... quick divorce. Second, he did... going good. My other brother never married his first long termer. Cohabitated with the second. Even had a child out of wedlock. Finally got around to getting married a few years later. Another close family friends have been together for 22 years and still haven't married. I co-habitated with the addict. We probably won't make it this time because of the child.... but survived other relapses and seperations. My mom cohabitated with both of her following husbands and those marraiges lasted until death did them part. Cousins.... same. I can't think of a single member of my family, nor peer group, at least a hundred couplings- save two sets of Uncles and Aunts - who didn't.

[Aristotle]

Thank you for your comments in regard to my comments, prisonchaplain.

- Mrs. A

[Justlooking]

Death Penalty is also in the New Testament.

Rom 13:1 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God. 2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation. 3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same: 4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to [execute] wrath upon him that doeth evil. 5 Wherefore [ye] must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake.

[Sugarbay]

It's your story, JL. Me thinks you have a partitioned harddrive.

B)

[Guest Monica]

Isn't it fair?