Baptism for the Dead

[MaMeeshkaMow]

Just general questions about this practice in our church:

1) When did we start this?

2) Was this a question by Joseph Smith to God and then did he get revelation after this or did it come out of the "blue"?

3) Are we the only ones to do this?

4) Is there movement from spirit prison to spirit paradise if a proxy baptism is done and the spirit accepts Christ?

5) Does it matter if a proxy baptism is done BEFORE the spirit repents/accepts the plan in spirit prison? Or does time not matter?

6) It's obvious we won't get all names done before the Second Coming. Is the goal to finish it all in the Millenium?

7) Appreciate any quotes from Prophets, General Authorities on the matter...

Thanks!!!!

[Hemidakota]

LDS.org - Ensign Article - Salvation for the Dead

[HiJolly]

Just general questions about this practice in our church:

1) When did we start this?

About 1842/1843.

2) Was this a question by Joseph Smith to God and then did he get revelation after this or did it come out of the "blue"?

1st mention was in 1823 when Moroni appeared to JSJr. and told him about the mission of Elijah in binding the hearts of the children & parents together. Joseph had not asked. Baptism specifically did not get mention until at least 1836, though it could have been later. We do know that baptisms for the dead were performed in the Mississippi in 1842 or 1843, prior to the completion of the Nauvoo temple.

3) Are we the only ones to do this?

Sort of. How far or deep do you want to look? (rhetorical question -- I am being vague on purpose)

4) Is there movement from spirit prison to spirit paradise if a proxy baptism is done and the spirit accepts Christ?

Yes.

5) Does it matter if a proxy baptism is done BEFORE the spirit repents/accepts the plan in spirit prison? Or does time not matter?

Time does not matter, as far as I know. D&C, section 137.

6) It's obvious we won't get all names done before the Second Coming. Is the goal to finish it all in the Millenium?

As I understand it, yes.

7) Appreciate any quotes from Prophets, General Authorities on the matter...

A SERMON BY THE PROPHET DELIVERED ON 11 JUNE 1843

"Sunday, 11. Ten a.m., meeting at the stand.

The following report is from the journals of Elders Willard Richards and

Wilford Woodruff:

THE PROPHET'S DISCOURSE THE PURPOSE OF THE GATHERING OF ISRAEL.

...

It is for the same purpose that God gathers together His people in the last days, to build unto the Lord a house to prepare them for the ordinances and endowments, washings and anointings, etc. One of the ordinances of the house of the Lord is baptism for the dead. God decreed before the foundation of the world that that ordinance should be administered in a font prepared for that purpose in the house of the Lord.

...

I will say something about the spirits in prison. There has been much said by modern divines about the words of Jesus (when on the cross) to the thief, saying, 'This day shalt thou be with me in paradise.' King James' translators make it out to say paradise. But what is paradise? It is a modern word it does not answer at all to the original word that Jesus made use of.

Find the original of the word paradise. You may as easily find a needle in a haymow. Here is a chance for battle, ye learned men. There is nothing in the original word in Greek froze which this was taken that signifies paradise; but it was THIS DAY THOU SHALT BE WITH ME IN THE WORLD OF SPIRITS: then I will teach you all about it and answer your inquiries. And Peter says he went and preached to the world of spirits (spirits in prison, I Peter, 3rd chap., 19th verse), so that they who would receive it could have it answered by proxy by those who live on the earth, etc.

The doctrine of baptism for the dead is clearly shown in the New Testament; and if the doctrine is not good, then throw the New Testament away; but if it is the word of God, then let the doctrine be acknowledged; and it was the reason why Jesus said unto the Jews, 'How oft would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!'

that they might attend to the ordinances of baptism for the dead as well as other ordinances of the priesthood, and receive revelations from heaven, and be perfected in the things of the kingdom of God but they would not.

This was the case on the day of Pentecost: those blessings were poured out on the disciples on that occasion. God ordained that He would save the dead, and would do it by gathering His people together.

-----------------

Many ancient Christian Gnostic doctrines, beliefs, ordinances, and rites have been restored in the LDS Church. The Gnostic Endowment Ceremony, The Gnostic Bridal Chamber Oridinance, The Gnostic Baptism For The Dead Ordinance, as well as The Gnostic Ascension Mystery Teachings, have been restored in the LDS Temple almost word for word. Such as learning the Signs, Tokens, and Passwords, in order to pass by the angels standing as Sentiniels in each of the progressive levels of Heaven. (These ancient Christian Gnostic ordinances and rites are mentioned in The 1st & 2nd Books of Jeu/Ieou, The Pistis Sophia, The Apocalypse of Saint Paul; The Shepherd of Hermas; The Gospel of Saint Philip, and in The First Apocalypse Of Saint James.)

(this last is not from a Church Authority, BTW)

HiJolly

[MaMeeshkaMow]

Another question: You mentioned baptisms for the dead were done in the Mississippi. Could people, in a country where temples are far away, get permission to do that in rivers, lakes, or whatever? I've never thought of baptisms for the dead outside a temple. Could it still be done? THanks!

[Just_A_Guy]

Hypothetically, yes--if it were allowed by the General Authorities.

But I think the chance that they'd approve such a practice in this day and age is remote.

[Dravin]

Hypothetically, yes--if it were allowed by the General Authorities.

But I think the chance that they'd approve such a practice in this day and age is remote.

I think Doctrine and Covenants 124 might be applicable here.

[Hemidakota]

Lord will make exception when it is necessary.

[WmLee]

We're not the only people who have done proxy baptisms. It was part of the Orthodox Jewish practice at one time.