Christianophobia

[prisonchaplain]

Interestingly, the bloodshed in Indonesia has occurred on both sides, Christian and Muslim. So may we assume that this is also evidence of Christian conspiracy and hate crimes toward Muslims?

I could be wrong here, but I seriously doubt that this is a case of equal bloodshed. Muslims are a huge majority in Indonesia, despite the demographics of this local area. Of course, when teenage girls are beheaded or some other atrocity committed, some will be so enraged as to seek revenge. Then the international media picks it up, including a secular American media that is decidedly NOT pro-Christian, and says "religious violence on both sides."

In fact, the policy referred to only pertains to chaplains offering an invocation or benediction in public settings such as a change of command or other public ceremony where people of different faiths are in attendance, not a religious service. In services, chaplains are free to pray according to their beliefs.

This I pretty much agree. It is a tough issue for some Christian chaplains though. The feeling is, "I was enlisted as a Christian chaplain. If I am called upon to pray, I should be expected to pray according to the dictates of my faith--even in official ceremonies.

The other side is: Jews cannot say "Amen" to a prayer in Jesus name, because the Talmud declares Him to be a false prophet. So, when such a prayer is offered, they are "left out." My guess is the military establishment will "win" this one.

[Outshined]

I could be wrong here, but I seriously doubt that this is a case of equal bloodshed. Muslims are a huge majority in Indonesia, despite the demographics of this local area. Of course, when teenage girls are beheaded or some other atrocity committed, some will be so enraged as to seek revenge. Then the international media picks it up, including a secular American media that is decidedly NOT pro-Christian, and says "religious violence on both sides."

The point is that it is part of a sectarian conflict between Muslims and Christians in the area, and someone is killing the Muslims as well as the Christians.

Indonesia is the world's most populous Muslim nation, but Central Sulawesi has a roughly equal number of Muslims and Christians. The province was the scene of a bloody sectarian war in 2001-2002 that killed around 1,000 people from both communities.

I doubt it is a one-sided issue.

[Aristotle]

Edited by Aristotle

[Outshined]

It's a war, and Christians have been killing Muslims there as well. It is not one-sided at all, being a war.

And much of the Middle East considers you to be anti-Muslim just as you consider them "anti-Christian". Having spent my fair share of time in the Middle East, I've seen little anti-Christian sentiment there.

9/11 had nothing to do with Christianity, nor was it a "hate crime". To call it that is to trivialize it, if anything. And just so you know, their term "the great satan" has nothing to with Christianity, either.

[Aristotle]

Edited by Aristotle

[Outshined]

America is not hated because of Christianity, but its political policies. Bush is disliked for the same reason, not his religion.

It was not a "hate crime against a Christian nation", but a terrorist attack on what they see as an arrogant capitalist superpower.

[Snow]

Men in black clothes and masks beheaded three teenage Christian girls on Saturday in eastern Indonesia as they walked to school near the Muslim town of Poso, officials said.

So Indonesia puts us in the MIDST of a conspiracy?

Another recent example...

Christian chaplains are being told NOT to pray in the name of Jesus!

Surely that is the very defintion of a "MURDEROUS conspiracy."

[Aristotle]

Edited by Aristotle

[Snow]

Prophesy is unfolding in the Middle East. This is the Holy War.

Mary had a little lamb. It's fleece was white as snow.

[Aristotle]

Edited by Aristotle

[Jason]

The Middle East is anti-Christian. They consider our country to be 'the great satan'.

The WHOLE Middle East? Everyone there? Have you asked everyone? What evidence do you have to support this theory?

Does that include the host of Christians living in the Middle East?

[Outshined]

<div class='quotemain'>

The Middle East is anti-Christian. They consider our country to be 'the great satan'.

The WHOLE Middle East? Everyone there? Have you asked everyone? What evidence do you have to support this theory?

Does that include the host of Christians living in the Middle East?

I've been there, and I can tell you that it certainly does not apply to everyone there.

[Snow]

The WHOLE Middle East? Everyone there? Have you asked everyone?

We got a call into Magaret McConkie Pope right now.

Keep the line open we expect and announcement any minute.

[Aristotle]

http://www.voanews.com/english/NewsAnalysi...01-17-voa55.cfm

Christians are Leaving the Middle East

By Zlatica Hoke

Washington, D.C.

17 January 2006

Zlatica Hoke's Report, 2.68 MB

Zlatica Hoke's Report, 912 KB

The region where Christianity was born is rapidly losing its Christian population due to low birth rates and emigration. Some analysts warn about the negative consequences for the region.

Christian Populations in the Middle East

If exodus of Christians from Bethlehem continues in the next two or three decades, there may be no clergy left to conduct religious services in Christ's birthplace.

There are between 12 and 15 million Christians in the Middle East, almost half of them living in Egypt. The exact figures are hard to establish because of the lack of official records and continued migration. Lebanon, with slightly more than one-million Christians, has the highest ratio: about 30 percent of its population is Christian. Most other Middle Eastern countries are less then 10 percent Christian.

[Outshined]

I'm sure it's all connected to global warming...

[Snow]

http://www.voanews.com/english/NewsAnalysi...01-17-voa55.cfm

Christians are Leaving the Middle East

By Zlatica Hoke

Washington, D.C.

17 January 2006

Zlatica Hoke's Report, 2.68 MB

Zlatica Hoke's Report, 912 KB

The region where Christianity was born is rapidly losing its Christian population due to low birth rates and emigration. Some analysts warn about the negative consequences for the region.

Christian Populations in the Middle East

If exodus of Christians from Bethlehem continues in the next two or three decades, there may be no clergy left to conduct religious services in Christ's birthplace.

There are between 12 and 15 million Christians in the Middle East, almost half of them living in Egypt. The exact figures are hard to establish because of the lack of official records and continued migration. Lebanon, with slightly more than one-million Christians, has the highest ratio: about 30 percent of its population is Christian. Most other Middle Eastern countries are less then 10 percent Christian.

STUTTGART, Germany (Wireless Flash) -- A new type of energy drink is letting German consumers blend soda pop and pop music in the same can.

That's because the "PopMusic" brand of soda includes a built-in radio that uses the aluminum can as an antenna to tune into a pre-selected station.

The can is currently broadcasting "canned music" from a Munich-based rock station, but company spokesman Wolfram Juretzek figures sports, jazz and, of course, pop will also be popular formats for the soda.

So far, the radio cans are only available in Germany but Juretzek figures they'll be available in the United States by March, 2005.

Although the pop music cans are expected to cost more than regular sodas, Juretzek doesn't think consumers will mind since the batteries last for at least a year -- long after the soda has gone flat.

[Jason]

On a related note:

Brother Steve in Las Vegas was seen on tonight's episode of COPS on FOX. Steve was caught having used Meth and preaching to his new girlfriend about the Book of Mormon. Both brother Steve's quad and his garmies were seen on tonights episode.

Apparently, meth induces the LVPD to persecute Mormon Christians in Sin City.

You can see brother steve at the bottom of the page here:

http://www.cops.com/

[sgallan]

I'm sure it's all connected to global warming...

Which was caused by those Black Helocopters.....

SUPREME COURT LEADING AMERICA DOWN ROAD TO ATHEISM

Well if you are an 'example' of Christianity..... I think we are better off athiest. Cause you are pretty whack. But of course you are not. And I kind of like the weird ones. The truly crazy ones are by far the most fun.

Besides, if we really are the 85% majority we keep hearing we are, then quite confidence should be the order of the day.

However..... of that 85%, only about half, maybe a little more, attend church regularly. And a lot of those are (gasp) Democrats.

So sorry to burst your bubble in this way.

[Aristotle]

"Providence has given to our people the choice of their rulers, and it is the duty, as well as the privilege and interest, of a Christian nation to select and prefer Christians for their rulers." - John Jay, first Chief Justice of the first Supreme Court, appointed by George Washington

[sgallan]

The 85%+ Christian majority elected the best choice for a Christian American president. (His opponent was a so-called Christian who supported abortion/gay rights.)

What, you think that bothers me. I voted for Bush the first time. Not the second, and I think that decision may be in the process of being validated. But I had no problem with his win even then.

Oh, and I didn't realize Bush got 85% of the vote.

PS..... if you are going to the "so-called" route, then it is no longer 85% is it.

Scott - in troll feeding mode.

[Guest Monica]

Didnt Kerry go to church as well?

[Guest Taoist_Saint]

Recent example of a "murderous conspiracy"...a "hate crime" against Christians:

THREE 16-YEAR OLD CHRISTIAN GIRLS BEHEADED IN INDONESIA

JAKARTA (Reuters) - Men in black clothes and masks beheaded three teenage Christian girls on Saturday in eastern Indonesia as they walked to school near the Muslim town of Poso, officials said.

President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono condemned the killings, which he described as "sadist and inhuman crimes," and called an emergency security meeting with his vice-president, as well as military officials and police.

National police spokesman Aryanto Budiharjo said up to six men in black clothes and masks attacked the students in Bukit Bambu village, on the eastern island of Sulawesi.

"The perpetrators wore black attire and veils and they used machetes to slash (the victims)," he told reporters in Jakarta.

The three headless bodies of the high school students, dressed in brown uniforms, were left at the site of the attack. Three heads were found at separate locations two hours later by residents.

Earlier, a police official in Poso gave a different account, saying two men wearing helmets on a motorcycle attacked the 16-year-old students.

He said the student who escaped said the attackers wore helmets and carried a two-way radio.

Poso, 1,500 km (900 miles) northeast of the capital Jakarta, is in an area where Muslim-Christian clashes killed 2,000 people until a peace deal was agreed in 2001.

Although religious fighting has largely subsided, tension is still high in the region following bombings in the neighboring Christian town of Tentena which killed 22 people in May.

Security experts have said local Islamic radicals may have been responsible for the bombings in Tentena.

Budiharjo said around 400 policemen will be sent to reinforce security in Poso.

About 85 percent of Indonesia's 220 million people are Muslim. But in some eastern parts, Christian and Muslim populations are about equal.

In Jakarta, president Yudhoyono also called for calm and pledged to hunt down the attackers.

"I want to tell all my brothers and sisters in Poso that such violence cannot be tolerated, and the police with the military will make sure that it will not happen again."

The parts in red font indicate that this was an act of murder, and that the goverment was hunting down the criminals. And my guess is that Yudhoyono is a Muslim.

So this is not much of a Muslim conspiracy, but rather an isolated hate crime against Christians that is condemned by the Muslim authorities.

The thing about hate crimes is that...although they are sad...they are so isolated that they are NOT a threat to Christianity.

If and when hate crimes are committed by armies or become legalized by a government...which is genocide...then there might be cause for real concern.

[Guest Taoist_Saint]

Didnt Kerry go to church as well?

Kerry is a Catholic...

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia:

According to those who know him, Kerry is a religious man. A practicing Roman Catholic, he is said to carry a rosary, a prayer book, and a St. Christopher medal (the patron saint of travelers) when he campaigns. However, he supports policies such as abortion, which is in opposition to Roman Catholic beliefs. "I thought of being a priest," Kerry recalled. "I was very religious while at school in Switzerland. I was an altar boy and prayed all the time. I was very centered around the Mass and the church."

According to Christianity Today:

"I'm a Catholic and I practice, but at the same time I have an open-mindedness to many other expressions of spirituality that come through different religions. … I've spent some time reading and thinking about [religion] and trying to study it, and I've arrived at not so much a sense of the differences, but a sense of the similarities in so many ways; the value-system roots and linkages between the Torah, the Qur'an, and the Bible and the fundamental story that runs through all of this, that … really connects all of us."

In contrast, he was described here as a "so-called Christian who supported abortion/gay rights".

The problem here is that many Christians do not agree on:

A. What the Bible teaches about abortion and gay rights

B. If those two things should be outlawed, even if they are sins

Let's address "A":

Well, the Bible pretty much says homosexuality is a sin, from what I understand.

On the other hand, the Old Testament also teaches that we should execute people who break the sabbath, and High Priests cannot marry widows...blind people, dwarves, handicapped people, and other "blemished" people cannot participate in certain religious ceremonies...and other things that we do not recognize as God's law today.

In the New Testament, there are also some verses against homosexuality...but there are also verses against divorce. Can LDS divorce? Yes, they can. Is divorce legal in the USA? Yes, it is.

Abortion? Well, thou shalt not kill. Well, we believe this refers to murder...killing is ok in war. What about executions? LDS used to believe in Blood Atonement (maybe?). There is also the question of whether or not a fetus has a soul. Again, I would say there is room for interpretation.

For the record I am AGAINST abortion and I am NOT a Christian, nor do I believe in a "theistic" God. But isn't that a contradiction??? How can you explain such morality from an unbeliever? Let me explain. I consider life sacred, and I don't need a God to tell me that. I believe morality exists independent of a Christian God...it just exists as part of the Tao (for lack of a better word)

Back to topic...

So it is no all black and white...there is room for interpretation.

Of course the LDS have living prophets, so they don't need to rely on the Bible, but the rest of the Christians in the country are free to interpret the Bible in the way they wish, or join a Church that agrees with them, and they all call themselves Christian.

Let's address "B":

Should sin be legislated?

Well, murder is against the law (usually).

Stealing is against the law.

Adultry can be a legal issue if brought up in divorce court.

But wait a minute...shouldn't divorce be illegal...Jesus said...

Never mind.

What about lies? Thou shalt not lie. Should people pay fines or go to jail for lying if the lie was not part of a larger crime?

What about idol worship? Oh wait...there is that pesky freedom of religion thing in the Constitution...

So...I guess not all sin needs to be legislated, right?

Now...if Abortion and Homosexuality are sins...maybe they don't need to be against the law either?

So...is it a contradiction for a Catholic like John Kerry to legalize those things? I don't think it is a contradiction. He is just acting according to HIS INTERPRETATION of which bibical laws can/should be translated into American laws. I assume that Kerry believes that if abortion and homosexuality are sins, the sinners will be punished by God, so therefore there is no need to punish them in our courtrooms. I mentioned in another thread that the LDS God behaves this way. He gives us freedom to sin, then waits to see what we do.

That doesn't make Kerry less of a Christian. It just makes him a different kind of Christian.

Using the 85% number I saw above...considering close to 50% voted for Bush...that means 35% of Christians probably think the way Kerry does about these issues.

Here is another interesting thought. My personal opinion of the Iraq war aside (I think it was a bad idea)...but never mind...putting that aside...Is Bush a good Christian? Well, he makes the most popular Christian decisions (those that the Evangelicals and LDS agree with)...but what about the Iraq War?

Didn't the Vatican say it was an unjust war? Catholics are Christian and so are one billion other Catholics that must accept this condemnation of war. So here we have a Christian President doing something that is considered a pretty serious sin by one billion Christians. Oh well...he has the support of 12 million LDS, and maybe a few hundred million Protestants.

As a non-Christian, I can't judge Bush (funny...I guess only Christians can judge him, but they are not supposed to judge people).

My point is that neither Kerry nor Bush are doing (or want to do) things that all Christians will agree on.

Therefore, neither person can be considered more Christian than the other.

[Aristotle]

Edited by Aristotle

[Guest Taoist_Saint]

<div class='quotemain'>

Didnt Kerry go to church as well?

Kerry is a Catholic; despite the Pope's position against abortion, Kerry was pro-abortion.

Yes, but you have not read my reply above yet B)