this thread's been a long time coming... steady dating.

[PrinceofLight2000]

Quoting Elder Oaks:

LDS.org - Ensign Article - Dating versus Hanging Out

This helps a lot, thank you very much, Dravin. *wave*

A friend of mine paraphrased this very talk, but I wasn't sure exactly which it was.

[hawaiifly]

As I see it, your motives are to get us (a group of anonymous people posting in an online message board) to accept your behavior and your decision to seriously date. First of all I reject anyone being judgmental against you because we do not know you. You are an anonymous poster. All we can judge is your situation. We don't know you as a real person. If I were to get to know you as a real person, I could come to different conclusions.

As far as your situation here are my judgements. The general authorities have said that you should not seriously date before your mission. So anyone deciding to go against this counsel would be an exception to the rule. As such, I will never change my mind on the appropriateness of seriously dating before a mission. I don't see why you should even try to persuade people to ignore counsel given by the general authorities. Not only will it not work on most of us, it does seem really foolish.

As far as your maturity goes, I would agree with what has been said previously. Everyone I have meet that says they are more mature than their peers has not been. Being mature (to me) means making wise choices. I don't think it is a wise choice to come on an anonymous message board seeking approval for your choices. If Heavenly Father has really granted you an exception, then you should feel good enough about your choice to not seek approval from others, especially people you do not know.

I see you stating that you are more mature than most people your age as just trying to elevate yourself above others.

As far as you being able to control your hormones better than other teenagers your age, I would like to ask how you know this. How many other teenagers have you talked to about this issue? How have you compared your urges to theirs? I think this is Satan trying to trick you into believing that you do not have to worry about morality issues, that you are above it. I hope that you do not fall into that trap.

Also, just because you haven't had any immorality issues in your online dating relationships doesn't mean you won't have them in real life. It is hard for me to imagine heavy temptations come as you type into a chat box where you cannot even touch the other person. I am pretty sure the temptations increase a lot when there is someone you can actually break the law of chastity with sitting right next to you.

Also, there are a lot of things that differ between online relationships and face-to-face relationships. In online relationships, you really only have to collaborate to make one thing work, making sure your both online to talk. You don't have to agree on the food you eat, the places you go, how you spend your time, etc. etc. I am not saying that you cannot meet people online, however, I would never consider an online only relationship serious.

Online means virtual. I am sorry. I don't care how much you think it resembles real life, it is a virtual world. It is a place where you can be different than who you really are. Most people realize that they have different personalities when they are online. Just think back to all of the things you have said in an online environment that you would have never said in person. This doesn't me that you and Kelly cannot have a good face-to-face relationship, but it does mean that there will be a lot of adjustments when it becomes face-to-face.

So my recommendation to you would be to stop seeking approval from anonymous people in a virtual world, and start seeking it from God. He is the only one that can grant your exception, and the only approval you need.

Edited July 7, 2010 by hawaiifly

[PrinceofLight2000]

As I see it, your motives are to get us (a group of anonymous people posting in an online message board) to accept your behavior and your decision to seriously date. First of all I reject anyone being judgmental against you because we do not know you. You are an anonymous poster. All we can judge is your situation. We don't know you as a real person. If I were to get to know you as a real person, I could come to different conclusions.

As far as your situation here are my judgements. The general authorities have said that you should not seriously date before your mission. So anyone deciding to go against this counsel would be an exception to the rule. As such, I will never change my mind on the appropriateness of seriously dating before a mission. I don't see why you should even try to persuade people to ignore counsel given by the general authorities. Not only will it not work on most of us, it does seem really foolish.

As far as your maturity goes, I would agree with what has been said previously. Everyone I have meet that says they are more mature than their peers has not been. Being mature (to me) means making wise choices. I don't think it is a wise choice to come on an anonymous message board seeking approval for your choices. If Heavenly Father has really granted you an exception, then you should feel good enough about your choice to not seek approval from others, especially people you do not know.

I see you stating that you are more mature than most people your age as just trying to elevate yourself above others.

As far as you being able to control your hormones better than other teenagers your age, I would like to ask how you know this. How many other teenagers have you talked to about this issue? How have you compared your urges to theirs? I think this is Satan trying to trick you into believing that you do not have to worry about morality issues, that you are above it. I hope that you do not fall into that trap.

Also, just because you haven't had any immorality issues in your online dating relationships doesn't mean you won't have them in real life. It is hard for me to imagine heavy temptations come as you type into a chat box where you cannot even touch the other person. I am pretty sure the temptations increase a lot when there is someone you can actually break the law of chastity with sitting right next to you.

Also, there are a lot of things that differ between online relationships and face-to-face relationships. In online relationships, you really only have collaborate to make one thing work, making sure your both online to talk. You don't have to agree on the food you eat, the places you go, how you spend your time, etc. etc. I am not saying that you cannot meet people online, however, I would never consider an online only relationship serious.

Online means virtual. I am sorry. I don't care how much you think it resembles real life, it is a virtual world. It is a place where you can be different than who you really are. Most people realize that they have different personalities when they are online. Just think back to all of the things you have said in an online environment that you would have never said in person. This doesn't me that you and Kelly cannot have a good face-to-face relationship, but it does mean that there will be a lot of adjustments when it becomes face-to-face.

So my recommendation to you would be to stop seeking approval from anonymous people in a virtual world, and start seeking it from God. He is the only one that can grant your exception, and the only approval you need.

This last part here is the key. I have gotten my exception granted from Heavenly Father.

Also, I didn't come in here to seek approval, perhaps that's what I get for mistakenly putting it in the advice forum. I posted it to address my concerns about members making judgments about youth who decide to steady date.

Edited July 7, 2010 by PrinceofLight2000

[hawaiifly]

This last part here is the key. I have gotten my exception granted from Heavenly Father.

Also, I didn't come in here to seek approval, perhaps that's what I get for mistakenly putting it in the advice thread. I posted it to address my concerns about members making judgments about youth who decide to steady date.

So what you really want is for other people to approve of your behavior. I know it is prideful to make judgements against other people, but it is just as equally prideful to seek their approval. Why do you care that people make judgements about youth seriously dating? If heavenly fathers approves what else matters?

Plus, from my experience, there really isn't that much disapproval in this category. When I got into the MTC, the MTC president asked how many missionaries were leaving behind a girlfriend, and over half of the Elders raised their hands. I thought I missed the memo that seriously dating before your mission was suddenly okay.

There are plenty of members who actually encourage dating before a mission.

I, however, am sticking with the counsel the GA's have given.

[PrinceofLight2000]

So what you really want is for other people to approve of your behavior. I know it is prideful to make judgements against other people, but it is just as equally prideful to seek their approval. Why do you care that people make judgements about youth seriously dating? If heavenly fathers approves what else matters?

Plus, from my experience, there really isn't that much disapproval in this category. When I got into the MTC, the MTC president asked how many missionaries were leaving behind a girlfriend, and over half of the Elders raised their hands. I thought I missed the memo that seriously dating before your mission was suddenly okay.

There are plenty of members who actually encourage dating before a mission.

I, however, am sticking with the counsel the GA's have given.

*sigh* No, I don't want approval. I'm concerned, and I'm concerned because people make these judgments without knowing whether or not that person has received an exception or not. It has nothing to do with me seeking approval. I just wanted to put it out there to discuss.

[hawaiifly]

Why are you so concerned? How is it hurting you?

[PrinceofLight2000]

Why are you so concerned? How is it hurting you?

It doesn't hurt me. That's like saying I shouldn't be concerned about the oil spill just because I live in Washington.

Just saying, lol.

[hawaiifly]

The oil spill does effect you in Washington, so you should be concerned about it. So why are you concerned?

[PrinceofLight2000]

The oil spill does effect you in Washington, so you should be concerned about it. So why are you concerned?

*sigh* you're defeating the purpose of my analogy, but whatever.

If I were in the shoes of a youth, I know how I would feel if someone was judging me. So I'm concerned for the sake of others.

[hawaiifly]

So you are concerned that if another youth receives a strong enough confirmation from H.F that he/she believes that they can ignore counsel given by general authorities about avoiding CHASTITY problems, that they won't follow that confirmation? Or are you worried that their self-esteem will go down because of the judgements?

Personally, I don't believe that anyone with enough faith to actually receive a confirmation to ignore advice given by a general authority on an issue as important as the law of chastity will not have the faith to help them overcome the judgements received from imperfect members of the church.

I really don't think you need to be concerned with that.

[PrinceofLight2000]

So you are concerned that if another youth receives a strong enough confirmation from H.F that he/she believes that they can ignore counsel given by general authorities about avoiding CHASTITY problems, that they won't follow that confirmation? Or are you worried that their self-esteem will go down because of the judgements?

Personally, I don't believe that anyone with enough faith to actually receive a confirmation to ignore advice given by a general authority on an issue as important as the law of chastity will not have the faith to help them overcome the judgements received from imperfect members of the church.

I really don't think you need to be concerned with that.

Good point. But I'm still concerned regardless of whether I need to be, haha. Judgments shouldn't be happening whether or not those who are judged can overcome.

[MormonMama]

Originally Posted by MormonMama View Post

When I was 18 my boyfriend at the time and I had been dating for two years and were sure we were going to get married. Our families were sure we were going to get married. All our friends were sure we were going to get married. By the time I was 19 we were both dating other people.

This is subjective. When I date, I don't have interest in other people. I might find them attractive, but that's as far as it will go.

You misunderstood me. When I said we were dating other people, I meant we'd broken up and were no longer dating each other and had moved on. It happened less than a year after we and everyone who knew us were so sure that we'd get married and live happily every after. I never said anything about being interested in other people while we were dating each other, so I don't know where you got that from. My point was that things can change that fast, especially at that age.

[PrinceofLight2000]

You misunderstood me. When I said we were dating other people, I meant we'd broken up and were no longer dating each other and had moved on. It happened less than a year after we and everyone who knew us were so sure that we'd get married and live happily every after. I never said anything about being interested in other people while we were dating each other, so I don't know where you got that from. My point was that things can change that fast, especially at that age.

Ohhhh ok. I gotcha now.

Yeah I see what you're saying. Things can and do move fast a lot of times, but if we can temper ourselves we can gain control of things. If that does indeed happen to me, I'm ready for it. I've prayed about it quite a bit. Heavenly Father has helped me come to grips with that should it happen. In this way, a break up is no different than an untimely death, really. (untimely death of a relationship? lol)

Don't forget that things can change just as quickly for adults. They did for my mom.

[hawaiifly]

I agree that judgements on individuals should not be happening. Judgements come from pride, and we all have work to do on pride

As I stated above, since this is an anonymous forum, we are not judging individuals, but we are judging situations and actions. You have approval on this board to seriously date Kelly, because as you have stated HF has confirmed that you can.

However, in the general case, most people on this board will disapprove of seriously dating before your mission. It goes against the counsel given by the general authorities. You cannot, and should not try to change this fact.

[pam]

Okay I've gone through this thread. The way I see it, a mind has been made up. Whether or not anyone posts their opinions on the subject or provides links to talks by GA's, the mind is made up.

It's already been posted that an "exception" has been made by God. Okay fine. If that is how the OP feels that's awesome and it's your life.

It's not just this post but I see this time and time again. People ask for thoughts and advice. When said thoughts and advice are given there is always a reason why it doesn't apply to them.

Just my 2 cents.

[MormonMama]

*sigh* No, I don't want approval. I'm concerned, and I'm concerned because people make these judgments without knowing whether or not that person has received an exception or not. It has nothing to do with me seeking approval. I just wanted to put it out there to discuss.

If I were in the shoes of a youth, I know how I would feel if someone was judging me. So I'm concerned for the sake of others.

Okay, first of all, you're 19. You still ARE a youth! Whether you like to believe it or not, even though you're legally an adult, you're still young enough to be considered a youth.

Secondly, it's not your job to make sure no one is ever judged and no one's feelings ever get hurt. For one thing, what you find offensive or judgmental may have no such effect on someone else.

You sound like you're trying to campaign against those who are opposed to steady dating before a mission, which would include our General Authorities. That seems pretty judgmental to me. You say you're only "concerned" about people who are judgmental towards those who do date seriously before a mission, but then in your first post you give us a huge life story trying to justify why you're in a serious relationship. If you're not looking for anyone's approval, then why did you feel a need to post all that?

Being opposed to something because you're aware of all the inherent risks is not the same as being judgmental. Everyone thinks they're the exception to the rule, so don't be surprised that so many of us with many years, even decades, more experience than you aren't as sure as you are that you're one of those exceptions.

[PrinceofLight2000]

I agree that judgements on individuals should not be happening. Judgements come from pride, and we all have work to do on pride

As I stated above, since this is an anonymous forum, we are not judging individuals, but we are judging situations and actions. You have approval on this board to seriously date Kelly, because as you have stated HF has confirmed that you can.

However, in the general case, most people on this board will disapprove of seriously dating before your mission. It goes against the counsel given by the general authorities. You cannot, and should not try to change this fact.

Thanks for the clarification, and don't misunderstand. I agree that generally this should apply until someone receives a witness. it just saddens me that people make judgments (even on situations) when they may not have all the details of the situation.

Dramatic irony much?

Of course, once the person in the situation understands the other person's point of view when they made the judgment, then they can come to agreement. I think that's happened in this thread now. More irony! *facepalm*

Okay I've gone through this thread. The way I see it, a mind has been made up. Whether or not anyone posts their opinions on the subject or provides links to talks by GA's, the mind is made up.

It's already been posted that an "exception" has been made by God. Okay fine. If that is how the OP feels that's awesome and it's your life.

It's not just this post but I see this time and time again. People ask for thoughts and advice. When said thoughts and advice are given there is always a reason why it doesn't apply to them.

Just my 2 cents.

Sorry! I think I really did put this in the wrong forum now. I wasn't looking for advice. This just seemed like the appropriate place to go since I wasn't looking to debate doctrine, but to discuss personal matters. *sweatdrop, scratches head*

[PrinceofLight2000]

Okay, first of all, you're 19. You still ARE a youth! Whether you like to believe it or not, even though you're legally an adult, you're still young enough to be considered a youth.

Secondly, it's not your job to make sure no one is ever judged and no one's feelings ever get hurt. For one thing, what you find offensive or judgmental may have no such effect on someone else.

You sound like you're trying to campaign against those who are opposed to steady dating before a mission, which would include our General Authorities. That seems pretty judgmental to me. You say you're only "concerned" about people who are judgmental towards those who do date seriously before a mission, but then in your first post you give us a huge life story trying to justify why you're in a serious relationship. If you're not looking for anyone's approval, then why did you feel a need to post all that?

Being opposed to something because you're aware of all the inherent risks is not the same as being judgmental. Everyone thinks they're the exception to the rule, so don't be surprised that so many of us with many years, even decades, more experience than you aren't as sure as you are that you're one of those exceptions.

I was introducing myself, and I thought the context might be helpful. I wasn't trying to justify anything. I thought I went over this earlier.

You don't know me, as one of the other posters has said. So please just take me at my word that I've received a witness.

[pam]

Thanks for the clarification, and don't misunderstand. I agree that generally this should apply until someone receives a witness. it just saddens me that people make judgments (even on situations) when they may not have all the details of the situation.

Dramatic irony much?

Of course, once the person in the situation understands the other person's point of view when they made the judgment, then they can come to agreement. I think that's happened in this thread now. More irony! *facepalm*

Sorry! I think I really did put this in the wrong forum now. I wasn't looking for advice. This just seemed like the appropriate place to go since I wasn't looking to debate doctrine, but to discuss personal matters. *sweatdrop, scratches head*

Honestly it wouldn't matter what forum you put it in. You posted on a public forum and you will get all kinds of responses. Whether you asked for them or not. :)

[PrinceofLight2000]

Honestly it wouldn't matter what forum you put it in. You posted on a public forum and you will get all kinds of responses. Whether you asked for them or not. :)

Haha, this I know well. I just thought it odd people were asking me if I was looking for advice, then I was like oh wait...

[pam]

Well to be fair to those that have asked, this was in the advice forum. :) Plus it is a bit difficult to get what exactly you're wanting from your OP. Was it just to make a statement?

[PrinceofLight2000]

Well to be fair to those that have asked, this was in the advice forum. :) Plus it is a bit difficult to get what exactly you're wanting from your OP. Was it just to make a statement?

Sort of. But I definitely wasn't posing a question, if you're wondering that. haha.

[pam]

No I wasn't wondering. I'm just trying to get a clarification.

[PrinceofLight2000]

No I wasn't wondering. I'm just trying to get a clarification.

I was looking for a simple discussion, not approval. Seems to be kind of hard to discern here though, even after I clarify. eg: taking a poll doesn't mean the poll-taker wants a particular result. it's just gathering data. haha.

[pam]

Okay then. Well in a simple discussion you will get a variety of responses. From personal opinion to links to talks given by General Authorities. That would be gathering data.