How to deal with quarelling children?

[Guest mormonmusic]

I have a situation right now with my kids out of school for the summer holidays. One is 12 (girl), the other is 7 (boy). My other kids are out of the house (I know we're a strange family in terms of age gaps). Often the fight degenerates into hitting, pinching, with both sides claiming self-defence. Tattling is constant and driving me nuts. I'm often not present so I don't know the truth of the situation.

My 12 year old and 7 year old come to me constantly about fights. Petty problems and they want me to be judge jury and executioner. They both deny the facts as presented by the other "side" in the conflict. We already have rules to prevent fighting -- for example, they both have to stay out of each others' rooms, however, this isn't enough.

Now, I know that boredom is part of the problem, however, I can't keep them busy all day. I usually have an anchor activity during the day that gets them out of the house for a couple hours, and this helps, but I can't do it all the time. They also have a lot ot keep them occupied -- TV, computer, pool, musical instruments, art supplies, lego, bikes, skateboards, toys, books to read, large backyard etcetera. I create daily planning meetings, but they often end up with ME having to invest 4 hours of time I don't have to keep them busy, and often, the things they want to do require money -- and I'm not willing to invest $20 a day all summer just to keep them busy. I also work from home, so I need to stay focused on my work. My wife is only willing to do "so much" to keep them busy; she thinks it's THEIR responsibility to keep themselves busy, because that's how she was raised. I don't see changing her attitude any time soon.

I've tried disciplining both children by banishing them to their rooms when I can't tell who is telling the truth, but this reeks of injustice to the innocent one, and I don't see it as a satisfactory solution. My hunch is that it's my son who is the instigator, as my daughter is usually soft hearted. She even tells me the truth when she is in the wrong (lately, because she's sick of the fighting). But I can't always be sure.

Any suggestions on how to stop them from fighting, how to "judge righteously" in these circumstances? My goal is a culture of unity and love among our children, and it's not happening right now -- partly due to the summer holidays.

Comments welcome.

Edited July 6, 2010 by mormonmusic

[Elgama]

Have you read How to Talk so Kids Will Listen? Instead of judging, get them to do it

Edited July 6, 2010 by Elgama

[Suzie]

Hi Mormonmusic. Are you and your wife in the same page with regards to discipline? I ask because most times, kids are masters at manipulation and if they see both of you are not in the same page they will pull whatever strings in order to get attention.

However, yes I think they are bored and they are quite young. Does your wife work from home as well? If she stays home, it would be nice if she can plan daily activities for them, including serving oriented ones so the burden won't be so much on your shoulders.

I think activities that TEACH kids the importance of being grateful (service) to someone in need and where their hearts can be soften by seeing someone being happy about a service THEY render, can help mitigate the problems with fighting.

[hawaiifly]

Not that I have that much experience, but this is my thoughts.

Them fighting and being bored is their problem, not yours. Why make it your problem?

So what I would do is be consistent. Whenever they fight or tattle or bug you in anyway banish both of them to their room. Even if you can tell one person started it, put both in their room.

If their room doesn't work, than find some other punishment. This would be perfect. "I am sorry" (make sure you show lots of empathy and love). "I need to get work done and I cannot spare any time to deal with YOUR problem. If you want me to deal with it, than I will have to take (very prized toy like xbox, playstation, movie) and sell it on ebay to make up for the time I am losing by dealing with your problems." If they persist, then take a prized toy of each of their and sell it on ebay. They will never bug you again. All you have to do is ask them if they want you to sell another toy. You will only have to get ride of one toy to make it work.

That way you are dealing with your problem (not getting work done), and they will deal with theirs (fighting and being bored). Don't ever be a judge. You shouldn't care because it is not your fight and not your problem. I am sure they will learn how to treat each other nicely when the threat of losing their stuff to pay for your lost time is clear and present.

Just and idea.

[Elgama]

I personally wouldn't punish in this matter I would read the books How to Talk so Kids Will Listen, How to Listen So Kids Will Talk. And they have a sister book Sibling Rivalry. They have in them skills that work for teaching children how to resolve their own conflicts. For me the principles in the books seem to exemplify how several of our prophets seem to have parented their children the following comes to mind, others have said similar things about their prophet parents, but this is the most recent that comes to mind: The Whole Article is worth a read from this point of view.

LDS.org - Liahona Article - At Home with the Hinckleys

Church magazines: You have said that your father never laid a hand on any of his children when disciplining them. 4

President Hinckley: That’s right. I don’t believe that children need to be beaten, or anything of that kind. Children can be disciplined with love. They can be counseled—if parents would take the time to sit down quietly and talk with them. Tell them the consequences of misbehaving, of not doing things in the right way. The children would be better off, and I think everyone would be happier.

My father never touched us. He had a wisdom all his own of quietly talking with us. He turned us around when we were moving in the wrong direction, without beating us or taking a strap to us or any of that kind of business. I’ve never been a believer in the physical punishment of children. I don’t think it is necessary.

Church magazines: Sister Hinckley, you have said that “you don’t teach a child not to hit by hitting.” 5

Sister Hinckley: When my daughter Jane was a young girl, she said to me one day that she had a friend who was grounded. I said, “Grounded? What does that mean?” We let our children figure things out for themselves. They knew when they were doing wrong, and they would fix it themselves. One of our daughters decided to stay home from church one Sunday. So she stayed home. She got very lonely. Everybody was in church but her, and she just sat on the lawn. She didn’t try that again. She figured it wasn’t any fun. It was lonely.

[Guest mormonmusic]

My wife was raised in the middle of nowhere and she was held responsible for keeping herself occupied, so she is only willing to do so much even as a stay-at-home Mom. That is a separate issue, unfortunately, and I'm doing my best to respect her upbringing, although I think being proactive and giving the children ONE "anchor activity" a day would be a better approach.

But here's what I've done.....I realize now why the day has been shot and I got no work done when I reflect on everything I did:

1. I spoke to my wife about it, and to my surprise, she agreed to 3 anchor activities a week. I found 3 free activities in town that required registration (free!!!) and she agreed to take the kids to them.

2. Institute a plan for the week that describes all the daily anchor activities so they feel some structure.

3. I also ordered the Sibling Rivalry book from the library a few minutes ago, and also found a good resource on "fouls" when trying to get along such as -- hitting, blaming, threatening, etcetera. I plan to create a little board game on the subject of getting along where they have to identify acceptable and unacceptable behaviors. We'll do it in family home evening.

4. We also instituted the old rule that they kids are not allowed in each others' rooms for any reason whatsoever. Zero tolerance.

5. As a temporary solution (I stress temporary), we've forbidden my son from playing with my daughter and her friends until I can figure out how to teach him the skills he needs to integrate effectively with older kids.

Edited July 6, 2010 by mormonmusic

[Elgama]

just a suggestion why not do away with TV if they can;t share, when my negotiation fails I just remove the offending object

[Guest mormonmusic]

That was long, so, continuing on....

6. We also did away with cooperative rules on television use -- making odd days my daughter's day and even days of the month my son's day, even when the television is technically available and not in use by the owning child.

7. We also instituted a zero tolerance for any kind of physical "violence" from anyone, whether they claim it's self defense or not, provided it's observed by us first hand. So, if you hit someone because they provoked you, you're just a guilty as the person who started it. And it carries stiff consequences, which for my kids, means being put in their rooms for an hour. They hate that.

8. I'm also going to see if I can figure out how to adapt http:\\William Ury, and adult book on negotiation, to my kids. A bit of a challenge but I'm a teacher and I think I can do it as I've taught adults many times the principles in that book.

9. As I said, these are temporary measures. Ideally I want to figure out what skills they are missing and teach them to each other so they don't go through life simply avoiding people they have conflict with; I want them to learn how to deal with it.

10. We also had a half-hour of open discussion where I mediated between the two kids and made each one listen to the other's grievances, after which each was able to respond. We then finished with each child expressing what they want to see from the other child to restore peace in their relationship. There was honest admission of their failings, which I appreciated, from both of them.

Everyone felt better and my son changed his behavior dramatically in the last few hours. We rewarded him immediately with an unexpected trip to a local library tomorrow to see a Curious George event because of the attitude change we saw. (Remember, this was not a bribe, it was unexpected and is considered 'shaping' of behavior).

So, for the time being, we've reverted back to the Law of Moses until I can teach them the skills to live the higher laws of sharing resources etcetera. That's my goal, but for now, we needed a cease fire.

Comments are still welcome from you though...I'm in a learning phase as I realize I haven't developed the necessary skills as a parent to deal with this swiftly. Another growth phase for me as a parent. I usually can develop the skills I need by listening to others, reading, and seeking inspiration. I've done it a million times before, and this is just another brick in the development of my philosophy of parenting. Kids change all the time, and you have to adapt.....which is what I'm doing. I've never seen them like this before!!!

[Guest mormonmusic]

just a suggestion why not do away with TV if they can;t share, when my negotiation fails I just remove the offending object

I created a division of "use" on the television -- read above....

[Elgama]

I created a division of "use" on the television -- read above....

I know just find my Gran's method of removing the plug very effective lol its what I do when they are watching too much TV etc, I don't have any regulation except if they misuse the freedom, fighting over it is one of them. Stuck it in a cupboard for 6 weeks once:D

Oh and did have a thought if they are fighting I give them a task to do, as they have too much energy for example run round garden, jump on trampoline, up and down stairs. Or get them to lie on their backs with their legs in the air and then tell them they can argue as much as they like lol

Another thing I do is give them a chore to do and be specific about how its done for example you brush the floor and you shovel it up.

I used to use similar things with my beaver troop (baby scouts) it worked quite well

Oh and writing notes has an impact as well. I leave them messages, When they get older intend to get them to write about why they love each other etc

And as they are older it might not be but mine fight worst when hungry

[johnfaust]

I am an IT graduate and I am very busy too working in a outbound call center company. Since I used to work at night. I have not seen my children in the evening. I do not have quality time to teach them with their lesson neither lecture them about the value of life.

That is why I make it a house policy that every Saturday and Sunday we will have outing together

[Guest mormonmusic]

The book on Sibling Rivalry had some good insights.

I realized the following:

1. I have to train my daugther to stop tattling on my boy. It makes him hate her when out of the blue, she starts trying to get him in trouble for minor things I'd rather not know about.

2. He was diagnosed with a disease a while ago that is highly inconvenient to his life. He's jealous of his sister who has no such disease. We talked to him about this and gave him comfort. That seemed to help. I quoted Talmage who said that everything we suffer in this life has a compensating blessing in the next life, provided we meet our trials with patience. That seemed to be very meaningful to him. I hope it will curb the jealousy.

3. I've been coaching him on how to negotiate his way out of conflicts with his sister. So far, he only seems to be able to follow my specific suggestions, and not come up with this own negotiating deals with my daughter.

4. He would always beat up on his sister when she would play the piano. So, I started praising him for his guitar playing. That seemed to help him quite a bit, as I think we were giving undue praise and attention to her for her musical ability, which is causing fighting on his part.

[Suzie]

I quoted Talmage who said that everything we suffer in this life has a compensating blessing in the next life, provided we meet our trials with patience.

Do you have the quote? I would love to read it thanks.