"big Love"

[Snow]

But whether or not “Mormon fundamentalists” believe they are fulfilling a commandment given by God to Joseph Smith is irrelevant, as far as whether or not they should be practicing polygamy, because God gave no commandment to Joseph Smith telling “Mormon fundamentalists” they should be practicing polygamy.

Or in other words, Mormon fundamentalists have no good reason to believe they should be practicing polygamy, based on anything Joseph Smith or God ever said, because neither God nor Joseph Smith ever told those people they should be practicing polygamy.

And yes, I do know Joseph and God well enough to know that those are true statements.

Oh Ray,

You know full well that the mind set of some of those fundamentalist is that THEY are of the true Mormon Church and we are all apostates.

[shanstress70]

<div class='quotemain'>

But whether or not “Mormon fundamentalists” believe they are fulfilling a commandment given by God to Joseph Smith is irrelevant, as far as whether or not they should be practicing polygamy, because God gave no commandment to Joseph Smith telling “Mormon fundamentalists” they should be practicing polygamy.

Or in other words, Mormon fundamentalists have no good reason to believe they should be practicing polygamy, based on anything Joseph Smith or God ever said, because neither God nor Joseph Smith ever told those people they should be practicing polygamy.

And yes, I do know Joseph and God well enough to know that those are true statements.

Oh Ray,

You know full well that the mind set of some of those fundamentalist is that THEY are of the true Mormon Church and we are all apostates.

IMO, yes this is true... and for the reason I've been saying all along.

[StrawberryFields]

WELL Big Love was on again last night a re-run from Sunday nights pilot show.

It was not anything worth seeing. There was a lot of unnecessary nudity. I would not recommend this show to anyone.

I did notice that the girlfriend from Napoleon Dynamite (can't think of her name) was in there. Apparently the main family in the show has even broken away from the main group. Not a show to watch to learn anything factual about these people.

Big Love was a Big Disappointment for me.

[Ray]

<div class='quotemain'>

But whether or not “Mormon fundamentalists” believe they are fulfilling a commandment given by God to Joseph Smith is irrelevant, as far as whether or not they should be practicing polygamy, because God gave no commandment to Joseph Smith telling “Mormon fundamentalists” they should be practicing polygamy.

Or in other words, Mormon fundamentalists have no good reason to believe they should be practicing polygamy, based on anything Joseph Smith or God ever said, because neither God nor Joseph Smith ever told those people they should be practicing polygamy.

And yes, I do know Joseph and God well enough to know that those are true statements.

Oh Ray,

You know full well that the mind set of some of those fundamentalist is that THEY are of the true Mormon Church and we are all apostates.

Heh, thank you for helping to make my point, Snow. :)

Those people are either not members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, or they are still on our records as members of the Church even though they aren't following the counsel which was given by the leaders of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, therefore, their practice of polygmany is not endorsed by God, Joseph Smith, or the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

And yes, I still know Joseph, God, and the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints well enough to know that those are all true statements.

[StrawberryFields]

In the Salt Lake City newspaper...

http://www.sltrib.com/homeandfamily/ci_3596325

[oaf1984]

It seems like people can not let stuff go.

I wonder what kind of reaction they would get from a show like:

"Father Jim: The loveable priest that just can't stop loving"

There would be a mob for sure.

[StrawberryFields]

From what I have read lately, it appears that some of the polygamists are happy to know that this show is being done. They want others to have a better understanding of them.

[Que Sera]

Snow asked:

How many "yes's" do you think we'll get shantress? (besides Ray I mean)

Are you talking to yes's (possessive) numbers of wives, the yeses (plural).

[Your] helping me laugh at the topic of polygamy.

[Snow]

<div class='quotemain'>

<div class='quotemain'>

Snow, are you seriously going to tell me that you disagree with this statement? That most poeple practicing polygamy in the US today are doing so because of the 'revelation' that JS had?

I guess that means that you have no evidence.

No, I don't. Some things are common knowledge. And whether or not they say it here, I think 99% of the people on this board, LDS or not, would agree with that statement. You're just being nit-picky. I don't know what kind of evidence would exist, since polygamy is illegal and the marriages are not official, as far as the gov't is concerned. You can't exactly go to the Census info and do a search on what religion the polygamists practice.

Would you like to go on record as stating the opposite - that most of the people practicing polygamy in the US today are NOT doing so because of JS's 'revelation'?

Polygamy is a lifestyle choice for a relative handful of Americans. Experts estimate that there are between 30,000 and 50,000 polygamists in the United States who practice a form of Mormonism, though the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, most commonly associated with the term "Mormon," banned the practice in 1890. There's also a growing number of evangelical Christian and Muslim polygamists—some experts say they may even exceed the number who describe themselves as Mormon.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11786790...playmode/1098/

[shanstress70]

Polygamy is a lifestyle choice for a relative handful of Americans. Experts estimate that there are between 30,000 and 50,000 polygamists in the United States who practice a form of Mormonism, though the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, most commonly associated with the term "Mormon," banned the practice in 1890. There's also a growing number of evangelical Christian and Muslim polygamists—some experts say they may even exceed the number who describe themselves as Mormon.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11786790...playmode/1098/

Thanks Snow... that's very interesting and surprising! I'd love to read more about it, but that link doesn't work. Is it just me?

[StrawberryFields]

This might be where he was sending you. :)

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11786790

[TruthTeller69]

I have watched Big Love and if was just alright not great no bad.....interesting

I have spoken with many LDS who believe that although the church has banned polygamy that at some point it will be reinstated.

And lets not kid ourselves here what polygamy was about was creating membership more wives more children more members!!

It's easier than trying to convert someone and easier to drive home your belief system to a child....."I know the church is true I know J. Smith was a Prophet and that (insert current Prophet here)is a Prophet today.......I love my mommy and daddy and my brothers and sisters"

Any thoughts

Yours in Christ

Teller

[Snow]

Shanstress, Strawberry,

Sorry, here's the link.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11786790/site/...splaymode/1098/

Also google "christian polygamy."

[LionHeart]

<div class='quotemain'>

But whether or not “Mormon fundamentalists” believe they are fulfilling a commandment given by God to Joseph Smith is irrelevant, as far as whether or not they should be practicing polygamy, because God gave no commandment to Joseph Smith telling “Mormon fundamentalists” they should be practicing polygamy.

Or in other words, Mormon fundamentalists have no good reason to believe they should be practicing polygamy, based on anything Joseph Smith or God ever said, because neither God nor Joseph Smith ever told those people they should be practicing polygamy.

And yes, I do know Joseph and God well enough to know that those are true statements.

Oh Ray,

You know full well that the mind set of some of those fundamentalist is that THEY are of the true Mormon Church and we are all apostates.

Actually, Joseph Smith never said that mormon fundamentalists should practice polygamy because there were no mormon fundamentalists. The polygamy issue was the cause of all of the mormon fundamentalists. They felt the church was wrong in discontinuing the practice so they broke off and started their own groups. Except for the ones that broke off when Joseph Smith died. But you can't really call them mormon fundamentalists because they organized their churches a bit differently because they felt that Joseph Smith and Brigham Young were doing it wrong. The mormon fundamentalists have tried to organize their groups according to their belief of how the LDS church was originally set up.

So the fact that they broke off and continued to live plural marriage is the reason they believe that they are the true mormons.

[StrawberryFields]

Here is a link from the churches website.

Polygamy, Church Position on

http://www.lds.org/topics/0,8170,1569-1-142,00.html

[Fiannan]

The other day, while walking on the Great Wall, a couple of collegues asked me about polygamy knowing I am Mormon. I didn't do the modern "politically correct" version most people use which sounds like a whiney form of avoiding the issue. I mearly turned the issue around and asked why Christians don't practice polygamy today. As in so many cases before this opens doors to being able to show that polygamy was never immoral according to Biblical standards and also allowed me to show the current LDS position on polygamy is almost identical to European Jew's position on polygamy. It also acts to show that maybe the LDS have some extra insight that most Christianity has lost sight of.

By the time I finished the people I was speaking to actually said that polygamy might make a lot of sense in modern culture and they also understood the LDS position far clearer than they previously did.

[Que Sera]

I mearly turned the issue around and asked why Christians don't practice polygamy today. As in so many cases before this opens doors to being able to show that polygamy was never immoral according to Biblical standards and also allowed me to show the current LDS position on polygamy is almost identical to European Jew's position on polygamy. It also acts to show that maybe the LDS have some extra insight that most Christianity has lost sight of.

By the time I finished the people I was speaking to actually said that polygamy might make a lot of sense in modern culture and they also understood the LDS position far clearer than they previously did.

The "LDS position on polygamy" is that it is against God's laws. How does that equate with it making a lot of sense or any convincing necessary in that direction in a conversation?

Further, in modern culture how do you see it helps rather than hinders?

Que Sera

[Guest MrsS]

shanstress70':

Also, wouldn't the wives be wearing garments? I know that one was not. They showed her underwear and it was quite 'worldly', if I may.

Shantress, I thought you were the expert on everything LDS. Then you should know that only worthy endowed members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints would be wearing garments.

shanstress70:

As far as where they got their info from, I don't know. But they did have a lot of the LDS info correct... such as the LDS girl in the fast food restaurant talking about Young Women's, Relief Society, etc. And one of the wives talked about FHE. There was also some ex-mormon terminology used by two other girls in the restaurant.

All they would have to do is go to lds.org; mormon.org; providentliving.org, and they probably did. Those official LDS sites are a wealth of official information

shanstress70:

I think it was mentioned here before, but you are aware that Tom Hanks was raised as a Mormon for several years, right? As producer of the show, he probably brought a lot of the cultural info to the table.

Do you have a reference link to that info other than this board?

Here is the LDS official response to Big Love:

http://www.lds.org/newsroom/showrelease/0,...1-23019,00.html

Church Responds to Questions on TV Series

6 March 2006

Over the past few weeks, Church Public Affairs has received numerous calls from newspaper, magazine and TV entertainment writers about a new television series called Big Love. In the series, set in a modern suburb of Salt Lake City, the main character keeps up a deceptive life in a fringe world of polygamy with his three wives and households. Journalists want to know what the Church thinks of the program, the subject matter and HBO’s decision to promote it.

In responding, Church spokesmen have made three major points:

1. Concern for abuse victims

The Church has long been concerned about the illegal practice of polygamy in some communities, and in particular about persistent reports of emotional and physical child and wife abuse emanating from them. It will be regrettable if this program, by making polygamy the subject of entertainment, minimizes the seriousness of that problem and adds to the suffering of abuse victims.

2. Confusion over the continued practice of polygamy

The central characters of Big Love are not “Mormons,” or, more properly termed, Latter-day Saints. HBO has said the script makes it clear that members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints don’t practice polygamy. Still, placing the series in Salt Lake City, the international headquarters of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is enough to blur the line between the modern Church and the program’s subject matter and to reinforce old and long-outdated stereotypes.

Polygamy was officially discontinued by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in 1890. Any Church member adopting the practice today is excommunicated. Groups that continue the practice in Utah and elsewhere have no association whatsoever with The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Most of their practitioners have never been among its members.

Unfortunately, this distinction is often lost on members of the public and even on some senior journalists. When ABC network’s Prime Time recently aired a program focused on the secretive polygamous community of Colorado City, the reporter repeatedly referred to members of the community as “Mormon polygamists.” In response, the Church points to the Associated Press style guide for journalists which states: "The term Mormon is not properly applied to the other ... churches that resulted from the split after [Joseph] Smith's death." In other words, polygamous communities should never be referred to as "Mormon" polygamists or “Mormon” fundamentalists.

3. Concern over the moral standards of television entertainment

Despite its popularity with some, much of today’s television entertainment shows an unhealthy preoccupation with sex, coarse humor and foul language. Big Love, like so much other television programming, is essentially lazy and indulgent entertainment that does nothing for our society and will never nourish great minds. Parents who are casual about their viewing habits ought not to be surprised if teaching moral choices and civic values to their children becomes harder as a result.

For that reason and others, Church leaders have consistently cautioned against such entertainment, joining with other religious, education and government leaders in inviting individuals and families to follow a higher road of decency, self-discipline and integrity.

Emphasis is mine

Snow:

Well let's find out if you are right... How many of the Mormons here at LDSTalk would idealy like to be a plural wife or the husband/father of a polygamous family?

My answer is NO. I follow the living Prophet.

[Outshined]

shanstress70':

Also, wouldn't the wives be wearing garments? I know that one was not. They showed her underwear and it was quite 'worldly', if I may.

Shantress, I thought you were the expert on everything LDS. Then you should know that only worthy endowed members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints would be wearing garments.

Quite true; I haven't heard of adherents to the offshoot sects wear garments.

As to Tom Hanks' religious background:

Tom Hanks was an adherent of a number of different Christian denominations while growing up (including Catholic, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, Nazarene, and a Fundamentalist Christian group. Hanks joined the Greek Orthodox Church when he married his wife, Rita Wilson.

From an interview published in George magazine, April 1998:

The major religion I was exposed to in the first 10 years of my life was Catholicism. My stepmother became a Mormon. My aunt, whom I lived with for a long time, was a Nazarene, which is kind of ultra-super Methodist, and in high school, all my friends were Jews. For years I went to Wednesday-night Bible studies with my church group. So I had this peripatetic overview of various faiths, and the one thing I got from that was the intellectual pursuit involved. There was a lot of great stuff to think about. What were the four spiritual laws? Are you a post-tribulationist or a pre-tribulationist?

Link

Seems his stepmother was LDS briefly when he was a boy.

[Guest MrsS]

From an interview published in George magazine, April 1998:

The major religion I was exposed to in the first 10 years of my life was Catholicism. My stepmother became a Mormon. My aunt, whom I lived with for a long time, was a Nazarene, which is kind of ultra-super Methodist, and in high school, all my friends were Jews. For years I went to Wednesday-night Bible studies with my church group. So I had this peripatetic overview of various faiths, and the one thing I got from that was the intellectual pursuit involved. There was a lot of great stuff to think about. What were the four spiritual laws? Are you a post-tribulationist or a pre-tribulationist?

Link

Seems his stepmother was LDS briefly when he was a boy.

Thanks Outshined

His Stepmother ~ not him, and chances are he only visited his dad and stepmother every other weekend and maybe for one month in the summer. Not enough to learn enough about the Doctrines of the LDS Church. Thus he really isn't knowledgeble enough to be making a tv sitcom about LDS. And from what I have heard here on this board, no one else on the show did their homework either!

Again, I repeat ~ I will follow the Prophet. That is why I do not have a tv, and I am very selective about what movies I watch. I do not go by the Ratings, because those people who do the ratings do not have the same values that the LDS church have.

[Que Sera]

Not enough to learn enough about the Doctrines of the LDS Church.

Except the show on HBO isn't about Doctrines of the LDS Church, it's about polygamy and one polygamous family living in Utah. If you don't watch television it's outside this thread to discuss it in full. It's not the best show in the world but if you stop by a family or friend's house who owns a television, it runs more than once during the week.

I'm surprised to read between the lines re Fiannan's words about polygamy to colleagues while in China, so I guess it can't be all that bad of a show. (Give me educational programs like Regis and Kelly, The View, real China plates and matching napkins.)

Que Sera

[shanstress70]

shanstress70':

Also, wouldn't the wives be wearing garments? I know that one was not. They showed her underwear and it was quite 'worldly', if I may.

Shantress, I thought you were the expert on everything LDS. Then you should know that only worthy endowed members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints would be wearing garments.

shanstress70:

As far as where they got their info from, I don't know. But they did have a lot of the LDS info correct... such as the LDS girl in the fast food restaurant talking about Young Women's, Relief Society, etc. And one of the wives talked about FHE. There was also some ex-mormon terminology used by two other girls in the restaurant.

All they would have to do is go to lds.org; mormon.org; providentliving.org, and they probably did. Those official LDS sites are a wealth of official information

shanstress70:

I think it was mentioned here before, but you are aware that Tom Hanks was raised as a Mormon for several years, right? As producer of the show, he probably brought a lot of the cultural info to the table.

Do you have a reference link to that info other than this board?

Wow, a little bitter the other day, Mrs S? First of all, I never claimed to be an expert on everything LDS. As far as the garments thing goes, I don't know for sure if the fundamentalists wear garments. That's why I asked, "shouldn't they be wearing garments?" And actually, on a more recent episode of the show, Bill's father was wearing them. I don't KNOW, but I wouldn't be surprised if the fundies have their own garments. They DO believe that they are following Joseph Smith and have their own temple ceremonies. But once again, I'm not claiming to KNOW.

And yes, you're right about them being able to get their info on all things Mormonism from the internet, but I would not be surprised at all if they had some ex-Mormons in their cast.

According to this source, he was a Mormon for two years as a child. Regardless of whether or not he was, or whether he was a child, he probably was around that lifestyle enough to know the culture of it.http://www.ldsfilm.com/TVchars/BigLove.html

Let me know if you want to discuss the show if you actually ever get around to watching it... it's kind of pointless to do so without first seeing it. I watched the latest one last night, and it was really interesting. It's getting more and more interesting each time I watch it, what with the plot developing and all.

[mom_of_jcchlsm]

I received an e-mail yesterday urging me to send a letter and/or call to voice my disapproval of the show. Here's the main text of the e-mail:

I'm asking for your help - for about 3 minutes of your time.

HBO's new series, "Big Love", is about a polygamous family and is set in a

Salt Lake City suburb. About the likely impact of this sexually driven

show, the New York Times said, "We may never look at Utah and think white

bread again."

Parodies of beliefs of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints

occur- belief in priesthood by a man blessing his hunting rifle, belief in

personal revelation from the Holy Ghost by dramatic visions that the

polygamous leader discusses casually with a friend. Talk of "celestial

kingdom", "free agency", and the "Choose the Right" slogan are included.

There is a brief disclaimer stating that the polygamists don't have an

active connection with the LDS Church. But if the writers don't intend for

viewers to make the connection, one wonders why they set the show

in Salt Lake City, the Church's world headquarters, and why they included

distortions of LDS beliefs.

NBC recently cancelled a show about a dysfunctional Episcopal priest who

saw a "Jesus", after almost 700,000 people emailed and complained.

Couldn't we do the same for this show? If you agree, will you:

- forward this email to at least 8 people

- email a polite protest to HBO:

Go to www.hbo.com, scroll to bottom of page, click Contact Us, click on The

Sopranos (unless Big Love is listed when you do so), scroll to the light

blue box near page bottom, on the line just under Submit an Email,

click on Contact Us.Then enter your information, specify it's about Big

Love, and leave a message asking them to cancel this offensive show.

One or two sentences is all it takes. Or feel free to copy or edit this

message:

I am offended that you would produce the series Big Love. It demeans and

distorts sacred beliefs of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

By setting the show in Salt Lake City, it blurs the line between the Church

and the long renounced practice of polygamy. Please cancel the show

immediately.

For "extra mile" effort and effect, call HBO's operator at 212 512 1208

from 9am to 5pm Mon-Fri EST and ask to leave a message asking them to

cancel Big Love.

Thanks!

[shanstress70]

I received an e-mail yesterday urging me to send a letter and/or call to voice my disapproval of the show. Here's the main text of the e-mail:

I'm asking for your help - for about 3 minutes of your time.

HBO's new series, "Big Love", is about a polygamous family and is set in a

Salt Lake City suburb. About the likely impact of this sexually driven

show, the New York Times said, "We may never look at Utah and think white

bread again."

Parodies of beliefs of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints

occur- belief in priesthood by a man blessing his hunting rifle, belief in

personal revelation from the Holy Ghost by dramatic visions that the

polygamous leader discusses casually with a friend. Talk of "celestial

kingdom", "free agency", and the "Choose the Right" slogan are included.

There is a brief disclaimer stating that the polygamists don't have an

active connection with the LDS Church. But if the writers don't intend for

viewers to make the connection, one wonders why they set the show

in Salt Lake City, the Church's world headquarters, and why they included

distortions of LDS beliefs.

NBC recently cancelled a show about a dysfunctional Episcopal priest who

saw a "Jesus", after almost 700,000 people emailed and complained.

Couldn't we do the same for this show? If you agree, will you:

- forward this email to at least 8 people

- email a polite protest to HBO:

Go to www.hbo.com, scroll to bottom of page, click Contact Us, click on The

Sopranos (unless Big Love is listed when you do so), scroll to the light

blue box near page bottom, on the line just under Submit an Email,

click on Contact Us.Then enter your information, specify it's about Big

Love, and leave a message asking them to cancel this offensive show.

One or two sentences is all it takes. Or feel free to copy or edit this

message:

I am offended that you would produce the series Big Love. It demeans and

distorts sacred beliefs of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

By setting the show in Salt Lake City, it blurs the line between the Church

and the long renounced practice of polygamy. Please cancel the show

immediately.

For "extra mile" effort and effect, call HBO's operator at 212 512 1208

from 9am to 5pm Mon-Fri EST and ask to leave a message asking them to

cancel Big Love.

Thanks!

I don't think the show 'The Book of Daniel' about the Episcopal priest was cancelled because of people writing letters and such. I think it was cancelled because of poor ratings. I for one loved it, but I guess I have wierd taste or something. The bottom line is money. If Big Love has lots of viewers, HBO will probably not take it off, regardless of how many people are offended by it.

Why do LDS care if the show is aired? I don't get it. The main characters in the show are NOT LDS, and they don't pretend to be. There was actually a comment that one member of the polygamous family made about the "bishop across the street trying to snuff us out." The LDS girl that works in the restaurant with a daughter from the polygamous relationship obviously disapproves of polygamy, but befriends the girl in spite of all that.

[StrawberryFields]

As I have stated before I believe that HBO is using the controversy to gain a larger audience. The brief portions I have seen of this show is about sex this and Viagra that. To me it makes it look as if polygamy is all about sex and bickering and the audience it will draw is one who isn't looking for anything other then soft porn.

That fact that it is supposedly in the Salt Lake Valley is distasteful at best. I believe that they are trying to cause harm to the church and the writers are wrong for setting it up in the Salt Lake Valley with shots of the temple etc. If they would change the location of where it is supossidly located there wouldn't be such a mixed message being sent.