Why people believe in their religion.

[Mute]

This is not meant to offend anyone in writing this but this is something I've thought about quite a bit and this is what I've learned from talking with hundreds of Christians from various faiths but primarily those of protestant faiths and those part of non denominational churches. This is not meant as a stereotype for what every Christian believes from other faiths. This is only based on my personal discussions with other Christians. If you don't believe this way, then you don't believe this way. This is just my results from talking with others so please try not to take offense.

A question I have spent a great deal of time trying to find an answer to was why those of various faiths/religions believe as they do. I never could get a clear answer to that though. At least I couldn't get a clear answer from members of other Christian faiths. The lds were the only ones I knew the reason for. Generally the lds give the answer of praying for confirmation and then usually confirmation is described as being a feeling of peace and love. Whether someone believes this is actually confirmation or not is besides the point. It is still a reason and it's honestly one of the best I've heard so far even though I'm not a believer that this is necessarily what others believe it to be. In my opinion, feelings are very uncertain but this isn't a question of whether praying for confirmation works or not. It's about why others believe as they do.

There are many Christians who do not believe in praying for confirmation in the same way the lds do. They do not believe one should pray in order to test the truth of the Bible, Book of Mormon etc. They believe the word, meaning the Bible, is already perfect and that God confirms truth through the word. I don't personally believe the Bible is perfect or that it's perfectly translated correctly. Either way, if it was translated correctly, it does not explain why they believe it. Usually the answers were things that made no sense to me. Let me give you an example of how some of these conversations went. I erased all of the ones I had kept copies of and I never recorded the ones in person so I decided to go through the trouble to give you a fresh example by going into a random christian chat.

I cut out everything anyone else said in the channel because they weren't participating in the conversation and in order to make it easier to read. The name I used was Mute_37.

<comforter> Hello and welcome to christian chat im your bible scholar host any bible study questions feel free to ask me

<Mute_37> I have a question for anyone who is Christian. Why do you believe in your religion?

<EDB> I BELEIVE COS ITS TRUE

<Mute_37> And why do you believe it's true?

<EDB> I SPEAK TO GOD AND JESUS

<comforter> mute cause i see that it is the truth

<Mute_37> Can you tell me why you beileve it's the truth?

<EDB> WELL COS I SPOKE TO GOD AND JESUS THATS WHY

<Mute_37> and why do you believe you spoke to them?

<EDB> I DID

<Mute_37> and why do you believe you did?

<EDB> I SAID

<EDB> I BELEIVE IT COS ITS TRUE

<EDB> THATS WHY

<Mute_37> Simply saying I KNOW CAUSE ITS TRUE is not a reason to me.

<EDB> MUTE IT IS THE BEST OF ALL REASONS

<EDB> JESUS LOVES ALL OF US

<comforter> Mute cause I found out the bible was true

<Mute_37> Comforter HoW did you find out it is true? Why do you believe it?

<comforter> Because it is God's word

<Mute_37> Comforter, you are not telling me why you believe it. I could read lord of the rings and say "It is written so it must be true"

<comforter> mute it says things there in ancient times that only a divine could have known that science today confirm

<Mute_37> Comforter, what does it say that only a divine could have known?

<comforter> mute the bible knew the pangea and that the earth split up and continental drifted

<Mute_37> and where does it say this?

<comforter> Genesis 10:25 And unto Eber were born two sons: the name of one was Peleg; for in his days was the earth divided; and his brother's name was Joktan.

<Mute_37> In my opinion, that is pretty vague to say that is referring to continents dividing

<comforter> whats vague about it figures youd make excuse

<Mute_37> It's vague because it could be any amount of land that was divided. It could also mean nations were divided.

<Mute_37> Genesis 10:32 These are the families of the sons of Noah, after their generations, in their nations: and by these were the nations divided in the earth after the flood.

They stopped talking to me after that so I didn't get a chance to continue. Comforter did give a reason for believing though. He believes the Bible because he believes that verse is referring to continents shifting and that this proves the Bible is true. That's honestly better than what I've heard from many others. Even though I don't believe that is what the verse is referring to, it is still a reason.

Usually what happens is, people just sit there saying things like "GOD IS THE WORD" until I become too frustrated to talk to them. I will then use the example of lds praying for confirmation to help them understand what I would consider an answer. I don't care what their answer is so long as it is an answer. This is when the conversation becomes very interesting but also extremely annoying. In 90% of the conversations or more, instead of attempting to even answer my question, the only thing they want to talk about is Mormons. They list reason after reason after reason for why the lds faith is wrong and evil. It's like what the heck just happened? I only used the lds as an example but now they won't shut up about it. You can't change the subject once they hear the word Mormon or LDS. That's all they will talk about. If you say anything against what they say, they treat you with a lot of contempt. They throw more things at you then you would ever believe. It's mind boggling how much time they've evidently spent looking up claims against a minority church that they aren't even a part of. They know a lot of claims to throw at the lds but they don't know why they even believe in their own faith?

Again, this is not meant as a stereotype for every Christian. This is simply based upon my personal conversations with hundreds of others. I'm not implying that no one other than lds have a reason for believing as they do. I am saying that 90% of the people I talked to didn't seem to have a reason though. It's like they couldn't seem to understand what I meant by the question of "Why do you believe in your religion". That is what eventually compelled me to use the lds as an example to help them better understand why others believe as they do. I didn't care if their answers were the same, similar or what ever. I just wanted to know why they believed.

Now having someone attack a religion does not make it true but I do find it curious that they spend so much more time attacking the lds than atheists or agnostics like myself. They don't even seem to go after non Christian religions like Islam etc. The whole reason I started going through the claims against the lds faith is because people seemed to take the time to learn claims against the lds faith rather than learn their own beliefs. Maybe if I can help educate people, I'll be able to finally get an answer to my question. If they ever had one to begin with. I may just skip Christianity all together and try asking Muslims or Jews why they believe as they do. Back to what I was saying though.

EDB's reason of "COS I SPOKE TO GOD AND JESUS" isn't something I can disprove. I can't disprove he actually talked to God. What he meant by speaking to God and Jesus, could have meant a lot of things. Perhaps I should have asked him what he meant. I'd say chances are unlikely he was implying he talked to God and Jesus face to face like Joseph Smith says he did. Many Christians don't even believe God has a body but I did find it interesting that EDB felt a need to say both God and Jesus. I wonder if he believes they are not one like those who believe in the Trinity do. There are actually a lot of people who belong to churches, that believe in the trinity, but they don't actually believe it themselves. Many times they are not even sure what the trinity actually states and they're not even aware their church believes in it.

Another thing with EDB is he never said God talked to him either. He only said he talked to God. So we don't really have to get into the whole question of "did God actually speak to him and if not, why does he believe he did?", which is a deep subject in and of itself. I could talk for a long time on that alone. The only real question is was he actually talking to God? Simply saying you did doesn't make it so. I can say I'm talking to an invisible pink unicorn but that doesn't mean I am.

Some people talk out loud at the graves of deceased family members. Are they talking to their family members? Unless this person claims their relative is talking back to them, how do we test if they can hear them or not? If I'm talking to my brother on the phone and the connection shuts off (lets say he dies) but I continue to keep talking, am I talking to my brother? My brother isn't on the line. The connection is lost. I can rattle on all I want and I can believe I'm talking to my brother, but is he actually listening? So am I actually talking to my brother? Unless there is some way of connecting with him, then the answer would be no.

Notice how I'm trying to figure how what EDB is actually implying with what he wrote? This is very similar to what people do with scriptures. Everyone claims they know what the intentions were of the people who wrote the scriptures. They also claim to know when something is to be taken literally or not. They say it's clear to those who have the spirit....yet they all claim to have it lol.

You can't go back and talk to EDB so how do you really know? Now this part can get a bit tricky. Let me show you the difference I have found between LDS and many other Christians when it comes to this. Because it's really not as different as people want to imply it is. It's more or less many Christians laughing and scorning the Mormons for doing more or less the same exact thing they are. Let me explain what I mean by this.

If you ask many Christians, from mainly protestant faiths, the question of "Is the Bible translated correctly", they will say yes, it's perfect in every way. If you then ask them why do people not all agree on the interpretation of the Bible, they will say the Bible is clear to those who have the Holy Spirit of God.

Many Christians do not believe you can pray for confirmation regarding the truthfulness of something, especially scriptures, yet they believe the scriptures are clear to those who have the holy spirit. They believe God confirms truth through his word (the Bible). Any person who does not Believe the Bible means as they say it does (which they refuse to call their interpretation and become angry if you say it is such), they imply does not have the Holy Spirit. If it is unclear to those who do not have the spirit, then would this not mean the Bible is not translated perfectly or at least not clear? If they are implying that person must have the Holy Spirit in order to see the correct meaning, then the Bible is indeed not clear unless someone has this.

So according to this, they're implying the scriptures are not clear unless someone has the holy spirit (even though they won't admit they're saying that). If that is the case, then the spirit is indeed confirming truth. If the spirit is confirming truth, then how is it confirming truth? How does it tell them what the Bible means? Is it just the first impression that comes to their head on what a particular verse means? Because they obviously do not believe it is a feeling. They always disagree with the lds belief of the spirit confirming truth through a feeling or even having a need to pray for confirmation if something is true.

Feelings can tell you things in a way. Sometimes I have a strong feeling that I need to go apologize to someone or feel a strong need to go do something. Is that the holy ghost? I don't believe it is but that is my belief. I do not know what these feelings people describe as the holy ghost are like for everyone.

So here is a question. How do they know they have the spirit? Is it just because they get baptized? If that is the case, how do they know they understood the correct way the Bible instructs for baptism? How do they know if you're supposed to have authority or not? Obviously if they did it wrong, they wouldn't have it or at least not permanently. It's kind of like which came first. The chicken or the egg? Many times people will just end up repeating "God is the word and he confirms truth through the word" until I simply want to strangle them out of frustration. The following verses talk about needing to be baptized correctly.

Acts Chapter 19

1 And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,

2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.

3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John’s baptism.

4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.

5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

In reality, both lds and many Christians believe the Holy Spirit is confirming truth. Most Christians just happen to not realize that they believe this. Now you just have to figure out how people believe the Holy Spirit is confirming truth and if it's not, why they believe it is. Many Christians don't even realize they believe the spirit is confirming truth, so I'm guessing they don't have a clue. My guess, from listening to them, is that they believe impressions are from the spirit. It's obviously not through the word as they want to say it is. That already doesn't make sense as I pointed out. The reason I say they probably believe in impressions (in other words, the first thought and that pops into their head must be from God or the Holy Spirit), is because many Christians are very passionate about their interpretation of scriptures when many times they haven't even read the entire chapter. I know people don't like being told what they believe but this is my conclusion from talking with hundreds of Christians.

I'm not going to get into the whole subject of "Is God or the holy spirit actually confirming things to people and if so how and if not why do people believe or say he is". That's a deep subject and one I haven't taken the time to thoroughly think out. Try not to be offended by anything I wrote though. It is not my goal to say no one has the holy spirit communicate things to them. I don't know if it does or not. There are a lot of interesting things I've thought about regarding the subject but I haven't put it into words. I'm not trying to make anyone lose faith in what they believe.

Edited December 11, 2010 by Mute
Changed the title name.

[Dravin]

In my extremely limited experience the circular logic you run into (The Bible is the word of God because it says it is. And I know it can be trusted because it is the Word of God.*) stems from not wanting to give the impression that they needed anything to believe scripture is true. I think some take it almost as an admission of a lack of faith in the Bible to say that the Spirit confirmed the Bible is scripture instead of them accepting it as true without that confirmation. Once again this is rather limited experience and I had a name tag on at the times.

Also there is probably some terminology gaps involved in such conversations and probably a degree of being on guard. Saying "I believe it because it is true" doesn't particularly leave an opening if you stone wall at it. If you admit you believe it because the Holy Spirit has revealed the truth of it to you... well you open yourself up to questions like those you are giving (or if talking to an LDS Missionary then you are put in the situation where the reason you give for believing in the Bible is the same reason he believes in the Book of Mormon). So it doesn't surprise me that someone dealing with someone of another faith may just stonewall instead of getting dragged into such a discussion.

* Before some of the agnostics and atheists jump on me: Why do I know it was the spirit confirming things to me instead of my own imagination? Because I choose to believe it was. Is not exactly a compelling logical argument either, no way around it even though it is why I believe I received a confirmation of the truth and not just the fruits of self-delusion.

Edited December 11, 2010 by Dravin

[Jbdf]

I'd say that most Christians are very poor at articulating why they believe what they do; that, and many of them would give fairly weak public reasons for believing what they do. In fact, in my opinion we can generalize that the same is true for most but not all people of every tradition - Protestant Christian, Catholic Christian, Eastern Orthodox Christian, LDS, Muslim, Jewish, Coptic Christian, Assyrian Church of the East, Buddhist, Hindu, metaphysical naturalist, Confucian, Taoist, Zoroastrian, deist, Sikh, Jain, Jehovah's Witness, Christadelphian, Shinto, etc., etc. It's a rather common problem.

[Mute]

You may be right about them feeling a lack of faith by saying that but it's hard to know if they don't tell you.

I'm not going to jump on you for believing the spirit was confirming things to you and not your own imagination. I don't know if it was or not. That's a reason though for believing. You are comfortable enough in your own faith in order to tell me that. Yes, I could question whether or not that was actually the spirit or just your imagination but at least you are willing to tell me this is what you believe and why. You are willing to be put on the spot for your beliefs.

That is what I wanted from others. I may not be convinced by their reasons but that's ok. I'm not looking to disprove them or try to dissuade them from believing as they do. I just wanted to know why they believe as they do. Many times they do not give me a reason. This leads me to simply try and guess why they believe. It leads me to wonder if they really don't know why they believe, if they just believe because they were told by their parents or what ever. Maybe they're simply insecure with their beliefs and aren't sure? It's very difficult to pin the answer unless they give me a reason. My whole point in writing this was simply to share my experiences in seeking answers to this question. The only thing I've found is that I don't know if they do know why they believe.

Surely the lds can not be the only ones that can give a consistent reason for why they believe. Obviously, people have to have a reason. I mean to find it but it is very frustrating in searching. People must have a reason. Maybe they just haven't thought it out or thought about it. The only things I've leaned is that many Christians must believe the spirit confirms truth and also that many seem to have researched an awful lot against the lds faith. I didn't really find that as much among Catholics though. I remember some of the reasons for Catholics believing were almost comical. I remember one person said "If you're going to join a church, why not go with the best". One person said they joined for the wine. I honestly didn't spend very much time asking Catholics though. Maybe I'll try that some more.

[Mute]

In my extremely limited experience the circular logic you run into (The Bible is the word of God because it says it is. And I know it can be trusted because it is the Word of God.*) stems from not wanting to give the impression that they needed anything to believe scripture is true. I think some take it almost as an admission of a lack of faith in the Bible to say that the Spirit confirmed the Bible is scripture instead of them accepting it as true without that confirmation. Once again this is rather limited experience and I had a name tag on at the times.

Also there is probably some terminology gaps involved in such conversations and probably a degree of being on guard. Saying "I believe it because it is true" doesn't particularly leave an opening if you stone wall at it. If you admit you believe it because the Holy Spirit has revealed the truth of it to you... well you open yourself up to questions like those you are giving (or if talking to an LDS Missionary then you are put in the situation where the reason you give for believing in the Bible is the same reason he believes in the Book of Mormon). So it doesn't surprise me that someone dealing with someone of another faith may just stonewall instead of getting dragged into such a discussion.

* Before some of the agnostics and atheists jump on me: Why do I know it was the spirit confirming things to me instead of my own imagination? Because I choose to believe it was. Is not exactly a compelling logical argument either, no way around it even though it is why I believe I received a confirmation of the truth and not just the fruits of self-delusion.

You may be right about them feeling a lack of faith by saying that but it's hard to know if they don't tell you.

I'm not going to jump on you for believing the spirit was confirming things to you and not your own imagination. I don't know if it was or not. That's a reason though for believing. You are comfortable enough in your own faith in order to tell me that. Yes, I could question whether or not that was actually the spirit or just your imagination but at least you are willing to tell me this is what you believe and why. You are willing to be put on the spot for your beliefs.

That is what I wanted from others. I may not be convinced by their reasons but that's ok. I'm not looking to disprove them or try to dissuade them from believing as they do. I just wanted to know why they believe as they do. Many times they do not give me a reason. This leads me to simply try and guess why they believe. It leads me to wonder if they really don't know why they believe, if they just believe because they were told by their parents or what ever. Maybe they're simply insecure with their beliefs and aren't sure? It's very difficult to pin the answer unless they give me a reason. My whole point in writing this was simply to share my experiences in seeking answers to this question. The only thing I've found is that I don't know if they do know why they believe.

Surely the lds can not be the only ones that can give a consistent reason for why they believe. Obviously, people have to have a reason. I mean to find it but it is very frustrating in searching. People must have a reason. Maybe they just haven't thought it out or thought about it. The only things I've leaned is that many Christians must believe the spirit confirms truth and also that many seem to have researched an awful lot against the lds faith. I didn't really find that as much among Catholics though. I remember some of the reasons for Catholics believing were almost comical. I remember one person said "If you're going to join a church, why not go with the best". One person said they joined for the wine. I honestly didn't spend very much time asking Catholics though. Maybe I'll try that some more.

[Last_Daze]

Maybe it is just me, but I've never felt any particular desire to publicly discuss what I believe and why. Put another way, the people with whom I will discuss what I believe are very few and very far between.

There are a couple of reasons for this. One is that I am fully willing to admit that I would have difficulty explaining it in ways that would make sense to anyone who does not share my beliefs or has experienced the same things I have (cf. Dravin's comment above). Let's face it: most religious beliefs and practices can look pretty strange to people outside the group, even though they have deep ontological and personal meaning to the people in the group.

Another is that I see something deep and beautiful in what I believe, and I simply would not want others to judge my church or other members of it based on me, and my quirks or foibles or what have you. As a result, I just generally do not discuss such things with people who I do not know somewhat intimately, or who really and honestly want to hear it.

Golly, I'd make a terrible missionary.

[Mute]

I'd say that most Christians are very poor at articulating why they believe what they do; that, and many of them would give fairly weak public reasons for believing what they do. In fact, in my opinion we can generalize that the same is true for most but not all people of every tradition - Protestant Christian, Catholic Christian, Eastern Orthodox Christian, LDS, Muslim, Jewish, Coptic Christian, Assyrian Church of the East, Buddhist, Hindu, metaphysical naturalist, Confucian, Taoist, Zoroastrian, deist, Sikh, Jain, Jehovah's Witness, Christadelphian, Shinto, etc., etc. It's a rather common problem.

How would you recommend fixing this problem?

[Dravin]

Golly, I'd make a terrible missionary.

Maybe as a full time "lets go talk to random people" missionary, but that isn't the only kind of missionaries there are.

[Jbdf]

How would you recommend fixing this problem?

That's a really good question. Ultimately, it's going to be every individual person's choice to think things through and study them out, or to avoid doing that. Beyond the individual level, all that can be done is to just encourage it. One way to do that is to challenge one another and keep each other sharp. The more people who do that, the better off we'll be. Also, encouraging a good religious education is key. And to the extent possible, intelligent religious programming on TV, radio, etc. might also be helpful. And we can all also try to emphasize those aspects of our traditions that give a push in the direction of thinking things through clearly - for example, Heber C. Kimball's declaration, "I can say, as one of the Apostles of old said, and it is my advice and instruction to you - prove all things, and try all things, and hold fast to that which is good. As he exhorted you to prove these things, to investigate them, and reflect upon them, and prove the truth of that which is called 'Mormonism,' let me tell you, gentlemen, the day will come, if you don't do it, you will be sorry" (Journal of Discourses 1:34).

Ultimately I suspect that most individuals will remain largely unequipped, but hopefully with enough effort, some headway can be made. Maybe someone else has a few ideas as well?

[Jamie123]

<EDB> I BELEIVE COS ITS TRUE

<Mute_37> And why do you believe it's true?

<EDB> I SPEAK TO GOD AND JESUS

<comforter> mute cause i see that it is the truth

<Mute_37> Can you tell me why you beileve it's the truth?

<EDB> WELL COS I SPOKE TO GOD AND JESUS THATS WHY

<Mute_37> and why do you believe you spoke to them?

<EDB> I DID

<Mute_37> and why do you believe you did?

<EDB> I SAID

<EDB> I BELEIVE IT COS ITS TRUE

<EDB> THATS WHY

The conversation reminds me very much of a meeting I had with 2 sister missionaries about 20 years ago, whilst I was going through an agnostic phase. I was very much attracted by Mormonism, but was reluctant to accept it unless I could "know" that it was true. Furthermore I had a lot of doubts about the Mormon method of "knowing" truth. Anyway, the conversation went on for some time, but it ended something like this:

Me: You say you know the Book of Mormon is true because of a feeling you had after you prayed about it?

Sister: Yes. The feeling of the Spirit.

Me: And how do you know that feeling was the Spirit, and not something else?

Sister: I know it was the Spirit.

Me: How?

Sister: It was a feeling of peace which told me that it was true.

Me: But how do you know you didn’t manufacture that feeling in your own subconscious?

Sister: You can’t manufacture it.

Me: How do you know you can’t? Do you understand the human psyche so well that you know exactly what can and can’t be manufactured?

Sister: [Now seriously losing her cool] You know…you must be a really irritating person…you are so argumentative!

Me: That’s no answer.

Sister: You need to approach the Gospel with humility. You need to listen for the “still small voice”. You are not a humble person!

Me: No I’m not (and it's a fault I readily admit to) but that doesn’t in any way answer my point. What I’m saying is…

Sister: [Now almost shouting] You are not worthy! The message isn’t for you!

BTW, this was the first time I ever saw a Mormon get seriously angry. (It wasn't the last.) I agree though that saying you know something because of a specific feeling attributable to the spirit makes more sense than simply saying I KNOW COS IT'S TRUE.

[Last_Daze]

Stories like Jamie's make me think I must constantly be drawing the good missionaries. None of them have ever gotten upset at all, even in the face of hard questions, persistence or controversial subjects. I even had a conversation with one set that was similar to that above. Maybe they just have the patience of saints, or they're just really good at hiding it.

I can't explain why some people have bad experiences with missionaries, but I can honestly say that I never have, even after working closely with three different sets.

[Jamie123]

Stories like Jamie's make me think I must constantly be drawing the good missionaries.

This encounter was for me the exception, not the rule. Looking back, I was in a difficult emotional state. I badly wanted to be involved in Mormonism, mostly because it solved a lot of the issues I was having with conventional Christianity (such as everlasting Hell for anyone unlucky enough never to have heard of Jesus Christ). Yet I was at the same time terrified of being suckered in and later discovering (perhaps when it was too late) that it was false. The mood this put me in was perhaps easily misinterpreted (especially by someone who'd had doors slammed in her face all morning) as Anti-Mormon aggression.

Edited December 12, 2010 by Jamie123

[slamjet]

Maybe the question should be:

So why did you pick your present religion?

[Mute]

That's a really good question. Ultimately, it's going to be every individual person's choice to think things through and study them out, or to avoid doing that. Beyond the individual level, all that can be done is to just encourage it. One way to do that is to challenge one another and keep each other sharp. The more people who do that, the better off we'll be. Also, encouraging a good religious education is key. And to the extent possible, intelligent religious programming on TV, radio, etc. might also be helpful. And we can all also try to emphasize those aspects of our traditions that give a push in the direction of thinking things through clearly - for example, Heber C. Kimball's declaration, "I can say, as one of the Apostles of old said, and it is my advice and instruction to you - prove all things, and try all things, and hold fast to that which is good. As he exhorted you to prove these things, to investigate them, and reflect upon them, and prove the truth of that which is called 'Mormonism,' let me tell you, gentlemen, the day will come, if you don't do it, you will be sorry" (Journal of Discourses 1:34).

Ultimately I suspect that most individuals will remain largely unequipped, but hopefully with enough effort, some headway can be made. Maybe someone else has a few ideas as well?

I agree people should be challenged but many people are uncomfortable with this. In my opinion, if someone is uncomfortable being challenged, so long as it is in a polite manner, they shouldn't be trying to persuade others to believe in their beliefs or at least they shouldn't be attacking other peoples beliefs. I think it's good to question ones beliefs. I don't know if you'll ever find out the right answer or not but I think it's allways a good idea to question things. It could changes one's beliefs or it could strengthen their beliefs. So in my opinion, it's always a good idea.

[Mute]

Maybe it is just me, but I've never felt any particular desire to publicly discuss what I believe and why. Put another way, the people with whom I will discuss what I believe are very few and very far between.

There are a couple of reasons for this. One is that I am fully willing to admit that I would have difficulty explaining it in ways that would make sense to anyone who does not share my beliefs or has experienced the same things I have (cf. Dravin's comment above). Let's face it: most religious beliefs and practices can look pretty strange to people outside the group, even though they have deep ontological and personal meaning to the people in the group.

Another is that I see something deep and beautiful in what I believe, and I simply would not want others to judge my church or other members of it based on me, and my quirks or foibles or what have you. As a result, I just generally do not discuss such things with people who I do not know somewhat intimately, or who really and honestly want to hear it.

Golly, I'd make a terrible missionary.

I can completely understand that and that makes total sense. I wouldn't want to discuss something personal to me either if I felt someone was going to mock or make fun of me for it. If someone can't respect my beliefs, then I'm not going to share it with them. I don't always expect people to open up to me about their beliefs simply because I ask. If they are personal, I would prefer they say they're personal rather than avoiding the question though. It's not my goal to make someone uncomfortable.

[Mute]

The conversation reminds me very much of a meeting I had with 2 sister missionaries about 20 years ago, whilst I was going through an agnostic phase. I was very much attracted by Mormonism, but was reluctant to accept it unless I could "know" that it was true. Furthermore I had a lot of doubts about the Mormon method of "knowing" truth. Anyway, the conversation went on for some time, but it ended something like this:

BTW, this was the first time I ever saw a Mormon get seriously angry. (It wasn't the last.) I agree though that saying you know something because of a specific feeling attributable to the spirit makes more sense than simply saying I KNOW COS IT'S TRUE.

This is something I haven't taken the time to thoroughly think out well enough to put into words. I don't know what this feeling is others describe. Not everyone has described this feeling to me in the same way which has caused doubt for me that at least all people who say they have felt something are feeling the same thing. I do think it's possible some people could be feeling something from a a Holy Ghost but I don't know that for sure. I've read the scriptures many times and I personally felt inspired by some of the stories but I never could say these feelings I got were any different from when I read another inspiring book or watched an uplifting movie. Still, it's not something I can dismiss and say no one feels a holy ghost or is prompted by one. I don't have enough knowledge about this feeling in order to make an accurate assumption on what it is. Feelings in and of themselves are not something many people truly understand. How many times have you heard someone say they're in love when really they're just raging with hormones.

I'd say the best way for someone to test what it may be is to try reading and praying for themselves and see if they feel anything. Try to pay attention to what you're feeling. I would encourage others to at least try it. Maybe they'll have something happen that they can be certain of. Maybe they won't. I don't know. I never was certain and I read the Book of Mormon 8 times but I still think it's worth a shot for others.

There is a scripture in the Book of Mormon that talks about the vineyard. Alma chapter 32. It talks about this feeling that will come.

28 Now, we will compare the word unto a seed. Now, if ye give place, that a seed may be planted in your heart, behold, if it be a true seed, or a good seed, if ye do not cast it out by your unbelief, that ye will resist the Spirit of the Lord, behold, it will begin to swell within your breasts; and when you feel these swelling motions, ye will begin to say within yourselves—It must needs be that this is a good seed, or that the word is good, for it beginneth to enlarge my soul; yea, it beginneth to enlighten my understanding, yea, it beginneth to be delicious to me.

Maybe you'll get a feeling like this, maybe you won't. If you do, is this the holy ghost? I don't know. There is just an awful lot of factors to consider in figuring out what this feeling is others refer to as the holy ghost. It's not something I can say one way or the other. I simply don't know.