Changing sacrament word to match item being blessed.

[martybess]

Just curious,

Does anyone know the churches policy concerning this:

If for some crazy reason you had permission from your bishop to hold your own sacrament while on a camping trip or whatever and you realize you don’t have any bread so you replace it with what you have, cheese. Do you change the word “bread” to cheese in the prayer?

We had a bishopric member who did have permission and did use cheese and did change the word “cheese” which sparked a conversation about the wording. He admits he made the best decision he felt at the moment but did not know if it was right.

[Guest mormonmusic]

This is an area where I wouldn't necessarily go looking for policy. The scriptures say it doesn't matter what you eat or drink so long as you do it with an eye single to the glory of God. To me, it would make sense to change the wording to cheese instead of bread, and then leave it at that.

[Dravin]

Cheese isn't bread, it makes sense to change the wording. We don't still bless the wine even though that is what the cannon gives the prayer as. We changed it to match what was being blessed.

[MarginOfError]

The most correct answer to this question is "do your best to adhere to current practice and guidelines. If your circumstances don't allow you perfect compliance, do the very best that you can."

We really shouldn't be in the business of deciding what the most correct way to go about this in rare situations is. That's kind of where the Pharisees got themselves into trouble.

[martybess]

We really shouldn't be in the business of deciding what the most correct way to go about this in rare situations is. That's kind of where the Pharisees got themselves into trouble.

I understand your concern. We really shouldn't be in the business of deciding what is correct and what is not and I'm not. I don't spend my days thinking of church policy and being a "proper ordinance nazi" This is a forum where one can come and ask questions concerning the gospel that might arise. As a priesthood bearer I want to try and understand correct principles and the proper way to preform ordinances that's all. I think it's a valid question. :)

Edited December 20, 2010 by martybess

[tubaloth]

2For, behold, I say unto you, that it mattereth not what ye shall eat or what ye shall drink when ye partake of the sacrament, if it so be that ye do it with an eye single to my glory—remembering unto the Father my body which was laid down for you, and my blood which was shed for the remission of your sins.

[martybess]

2For, behold, I say unto you, that it mattereth not what ye shall eat or what ye shall drink when ye partake of the sacrament, if it so be that ye do it with an eye single to my glory—remembering unto the Father my body which was laid down for you, and my blood which was shed for the remission of your sins.

So change the word?

[captmoroniRM]

Yes. My brother and my dad once took the sacrament to a guy in the hospital who couldn't eat any wheat. They found this out too late and the only thing they had that the guy could eat was a butterscotch candy. My brother said it was the weirdest thing reading the sacrament prayer and asking Heavenly Father to bless and sanctify the butterscotch.

[Gwen]

Just curious,

Does anyone know the churches policy concerning this:

If for some crazy reason you had permission from your bishop to hold your own sacrament while on a camping trip or whatever and you realize you don’t have any bread so you replace it with what you have, cheese. Do you change the word “bread” to cheese in the prayer?

We had a bishopric member who did have permission and did use cheese and did change the word “cheese” which sparked a conversation about the wording. He admits he made the best decision he felt at the moment but did not know if it was right.

not to sound judgmental (cause i really don't care what others do) and to each his own but in the camping trip situation i would just skip the sacrament that week. missing one week won't kill anyone. now in some other situation or where you won't get the opportunity for awhile (thinking of all the war time stories and what not you hear of) then i say go for it.

what is embarrassing is when you are a few min out from church starting and no one brought bread, the ppl that live the closest to the church is our family and the only bread we have is some french bread that's been in the freezer longer than it should have been. so the brilliant priesthood (without discussing it with me) thaw it out in the microwave...... by the time it got to the members it was like stale croutons. i was mortified. as the tray went around and i watched ppl's faces i knew something was wrong, as soon as i touched it i knew what happened.

or the time no one had bread and we only had 2 choices at our house, hot dog buns or garlic bread and the guys thought "oh we'll use garlic bread it's way better than hot dog buns"..... again they didn't consult me. as i saw ppl's reaction i knew before it ever got to me what they did. again i was mortified. after i went straight to rs and apologized to all the sisters (who were passing around breath mints).

sometimes i really think the sacrament should be left up to the women. i will never understand male logic.

[martybess]

not to sound judgmental (cause i really don't care what others do) and to each his own but in the camping trip situation i would just skip the sacrament that week. missing one week won't kill anyone. now in some other situation or where you won't get the opportunity for awhile (thinking of all the war time stories and what not you hear of) then i say go for it.

I agree. It was one of those month long trip covering 100 miles or something like that.

[martybess]

How do you folks interpret this? Please again I'm trying to get caught on the whole thing just trying to learn and understand.

James E Talmage, Articles of Faith

"Manner of Administering the Sacrament— The plainness of the Lord's instructions to the saints regarding this ordinance leaves no excuse for disputation concerning the proper procedure, for assuredly no one who officiates in these holy rites can feel that he is justified in changing the forms even by the alteration of a word.”

Do you take the word "forms" to mean the set prayers themselves?

Also one brother brought up that to him the Bread is symbolic of Christ being the “bread of life” and the water being symbolic of the “living water” of Christ and to him it didn’t matter if they were in the islands using banana’s and sprite they are symbolic and the words should not be altered. Any thoughts?

Edited December 20, 2010 by martybess

[john doe]

The Articles of Faith by Talmage is not doctrine. Practices and policies change over time and are subject to adaptability to the needs and conditions of the circumstances and people at the moment. One of the main things I took away from the most recent Worldwide Leadership Conference is that they specifically stated that while doctrine does not change, programs and the way they are administered can be changed to fit the situation.

If the word 'cheese' fits the sacrament situation better than 'bread', then it is acceptable to the Lord. If the word 'milk' fits the situation better than 'water', then it is acceptable as well. It's not like you're changing the meaning of the sacrament prayer, you are conforming it to fit the items you are actually blessing for the purposes of the sacrament.

[Avrham]

some of my Samoan brothers use taro in their Sacrement meeting back in the Islands reason being bread is not apart of their diet and they use the word "moi moi' which is closet translation for taro/bread>we where talking about this in EQ just the other week maybe referring to the PH lesson so funny everyone had the new Hand book and rush too it lol I believe we should use the apropriate term ie if its a biscuit its a biscuit:):):)but thats just my opinion

[MarginOfError]

I understand your concern. We really shouldn't be in the business of deciding what is correct and what is not and I'm not. I don't spend my days thinking of church policy and being a "proper ordinance nazi" This is a forum where one can come and ask questions concerning the gospel that might arise. As a priesthood bearer I want to try and understand correct principles and the proper way to preform ordinances that's all. I think it's a valid question. :)

You asked what Church policy is on the issue. And I answered. There is no policy and we're expected to do our best to adhere to established guidelines. If you have two identical situations, but one changes the word to cheese, and the other does not, neither one is more acceptable to the Lord.

How do you folks interpret this? Please again I'm trying to get caught on the whole thing just trying to learn and understand.

James E Talmage, Articles of Faith

"Manner of Administering the Sacrament— The plainness of the Lord's instructions to the saints regarding this ordinance leaves no excuse for disputation concerning the proper procedure, for assuredly no one who officiates in these holy rites can feel that he is justified in changing the forms even by the alteration of a word.”

Do you take the word "forms" to mean the set prayers themselves?

Also one brother brought up that to him the Bread is symbolic of Christ being the “bread of life” and the water being symbolic of the “living water” of Christ and to him it didn’t matter if they were in the islands using banana’s and sprite they are symbolic and the words should not be altered. Any thoughts?

I would have interpreted this as pertaining to permanent changes. For example, a bishop shouldn't proclaim to his ward that only whole wheat bread is acceptable for use with the ordinance. And no one should make the decision that we should add "which was shed for them" after the word "body" in the prayer over the bread. Those decisions, if made, will be delivered through the president of the Church. But I wouldn't apply this to the once-in-a-lifetime situations.

[Backroads]

I fall into the "skip the sacrement" category. I figure you're in the mountains, they're sacred and holy, etc. You're good.

The only time I've ever done this was at camp. We had too many people who wanted to go the little ward twenty minutes down the mountain and not enough cars. One of my friends called up the bishop, got permission, yada, yada... It was fun. We actually used left-over rolls and cleaned out a bunch of butter packages for cups.