The Most Neglected Member Of The Godhead

[prisonchaplain]

I've not attempted to edit this post for and LDS audience. I simply post this very typical lesson to see what points of affirmation, contradiction, inquiry and discussion it might bring out.

Who is the Holy Spirit and What Does He Do?

Proposition: We believe that the Holy Spirit is personality, deity, the performer of the New Birth, the indweller of believers, and the one who enables holiness in us.

Interrogative: How do we know these things about the Holy Spirit, where would be without Him, and why is this so important.

First, let us consider who we are working with.

Who is the Holy Spirit?

We believe in the personality of the Holy Spirit. He is a person, with individuality all his own.

(2 Corinthians 3:17) Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. (NIV). A power or force is more likely to oppress, constrain, limit...but the Holy Spirit releases, frees, liberates!

(1 Peter 1:2) who have been chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through the sanctifying work of the Spirit, for obedience to Jesus Christ and sprinkling by his blood: Grace and peace be yours in abundance. (NIV). The distinct work of the Holy Spirit here is sanctification--He works holiness into our lives!

He has characteristics of personhood.

(Romans 8:27) And he who searches our hearts knows the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for the saints in accordance with God's will. (NIV). Note the mind of the Spirit--The Holy spirit thinks.

(Romans 15:30) I urge you, brothers, by our Lord Jesus Christ and by the love of the Spirit, to join me in my struggle by praying to God for me. (NIV) Note the love of the Spirit--He feels.

(1 Corinthians 12:11) All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he gives them to each one, just as he determines. (NIV) The Holy Spirit determines, or wills.

We believe in the deity of the Holy Spirit.

(Acts 5:3-4) Then Peter said, "Ananias, how is it that Satan has so filled your heart that you have lied to the Holy Spirit and have kept for yourself some of the money you received for the land? Didn't it belong to you before it was sold? And after it was sold, wasn't the money at your disposal? What made you think of doing such a thing? You have not lied to men but to God." (NIV)

They lie to the Holy Spirit. They lie to God. The Holy Spirit is God.

Some questions to ponder. Can a power or force really be lied to? If the Holy Spirit is not God, what is he? An angel? A god-like thing?

It is good to know who the Holy Spirit is, but what does he do?

What does the Holy Spirit do?

We believe the Holy Spirit performs the miracle of the new birth in those becoming Christians.

(John 16:7-8) But I tell you the truth: It is for your good that I am going away. Unless I go away, the Counselor will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you. When he comes, he will convict the world of guilt in regard to sin and righteousness and judgment: (NIV). The Holy Spirit Convicts people of sin--making them feel guilty. We must understand our need for God's forgiveness before we can become Christians. Note that it is not our place to make people feel conviction--that's the Spirit's work. We simply inform them that we are all guilty before God.

(John 3:3-6) In reply Jesus declared, "I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again." "How can a man be born when he is old?" Nicodemus asked. "Surely he cannot enter a second time into his mother's womb to be born!" Jesus answered, "I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit. Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit. (NIV) The new birth--being born again--salvation--comes from the Holy Spirit.

(1 Corinthians 12:13) For we were all baptized by one Spirit into one body-- whether Jews or Greeks, slave or free-- and we were all given the one Spirit to drink. (NIV). The Holy Spirit puts us into the body of Christ--making us a part of the family of God.

We believe the Holy Spirit indwells believers.

(Romans 8:9) You, however, are controlled not by the sinful nature but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ. (NIV). Catch this--the Spirit of God lives in you! Are you really comfortable taking the Holy Spirit to some of the places you go, to say the things you say, and do the things you do?

(1 Corinthians 6:19) Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own; (NIV). We are a holy place where the Holy Spirit of God lives!

We believe the Holy Spirit enables believers to live godly lives.

(Romans 8:4) in order that the righteous requirements of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the sinful nature but according to the Spirit. (NIV). God's law is fulfilled in us by the Holy Spirit.

(Galatians 5:16-17) So I say, live by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the sinful nature. For the sinful nature desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the sinful nature. They are in conflict with each other, so that you do not do what you want. (NIV). If we live by the Spirit in us, we will not fall to sinful temptations.

(2 Thessalonians 2:13) But we ought always to thank God for you, brothers loved by the Lord, because from the beginning God chose you to be saved through the sanctifying work of the Spirit and through belief in the truth. (NIV) The Holy Spirit helps us live clean lives before the God.

If the Holy Spirit is so important, how come we do not hear more about Him? Just how bad would it be if we did not have the Spirit--just Jesus and the Father?

Where would we be without the Holy Spirit?

(Genesis 1:2) Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters. (Job 33:4) The Spirit of God has made me; the breath of the Almighty gives me life. (NIV) No creation. No universe. No human race.

(2 Peter 1:21) For prophecy never had its origin in the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit. (NIV). Without the Holy Spirit there would be no prophecy. There would be no proclamation of God's Word.

(Acts 1:8) But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth." (NIV) Without the Holy Spirit there would be no power. There would be no witness and no hope for a lost and dying world.

Okay, okay! So I believe in the Holy Spirit. Is it necessary to have a detailed understanding of him?

Why is the doctrine of the Holy Spirit so important?

We must understand the Holy Spirit to understand the God we worship. It is a common error for we Christians to regard the Holy Spirit as a power or force, instead of as a person. This leads to a lack of respect. This leads to a lack of intimacy. This leads to our efforts to control the Spirit.

The Holy Spirit is with us all the time. We think of Jesus as being one person at one place at a time.

The Holy Spirit is at all places at all times. Jesus said to his disciples as he was about to leave them that it was good for him to go, so that the Holy Spirit could come.

Life apart from the Holy Spirit compares poorly to life with the Holy Spirit. Life without out the Holy Spirit is like this: (Galatians 5:19-21) The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God. (NIV)

Life with the Holy Spirit is like this: (Galatians 5:22-23) But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. (NIV)

WOW! We've learned a lot, but what have we learned? What shall we do?

Conclusions

1. Let us trust the Holy Spirit to save us from our sins.

2. Let us trust the Holy Spirit to use us when we witness.

3. Let us trust the Holy Spirit to lead us away from sin.

4. Let us trust the Holy Spirit to help us love God and our neighbors.

5. Let us trust the Holy Spirit to make us wiser when we read and study the Bible.

6. Let us trust the Holy Spirit to be with us all the time.

[Christos]

What an excellent topic! :)

We must never, ever forget the Holy Spirit.

Though it is full of mystery, it is in its own right a part of the trinity which must be acknowledged.

I believe in the Father, the Son and of the Holy Spirit.

To blaspheme against the Father is forgivable, to blaspheme against the Son is forgivable but to blaspheme against the Holy Spirit...

Mar 3:28 Verily I say unto you, All their sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and their blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme:

Mar 3:29 but whosoever shall blaspheme against the Holy Spirit hath never forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal sin:

There is a certain fear to be found in the Holy Spirit that isn't among the Father and the Son. The Holy Spirit seems to be the very essense of the Christian nature. It would be tempting to say that the Holy Spirit is the highest part of the Trinity, but that would be foolish as the Trinity is equal.

I do not know, nor claim to know anything about the Holy Spirit, but what I do know is that I want to learn so much more, but how much is to learn on Earth?

[Ray]

Those were great comments, Tommy, and we [LDS] are very much in agreement, but as I read your post there were a few thoughts that occurred to me that I’m not sure you understand or accept.

#1: The Holy Spirit is not the same Spirit or person as the Spirit of our Lord or our heavenly Father. Or in other words, the Holy Ghost is usually the person we are referring to by the name of the Holy Spirit, but the Holy Spirit can also refer to the Spirit of our Lord or even the Spirit of our Father in heaven, because their Spirits are also Holy. In some of your posts you seemed to know this, but in some of your other posts I wasn’t so sure.

#2: The Holy Spirit (or Holy Ghost) will only dwell within us (with his Spirit mingled with our spirit in our physical body) only as long as we are righteous, because the moment we do anything to offend the Holy Ghost he will leave our physical body… .although He may decide to come back to us once we have done our best to Repent.

#3: The Holy Spirit (or Holy Ghost) can dwell within any body, with the understanding that He can’t tolerate any degree of unrighteousness, but within only one body at a time, although His power can be felt by every body who receives a manifestation from Him. Or in other words, the Holy Spirit is a person, and any person can only be in one place at a time, but He can help every body to feel His presence by the power He has to do that. And btw, when I first joined the Church, this was made more clear to me by using an analogy of the sun, which is in only one place in our solar system and can be felt by all who feel it.

#4: The Holy Spirit (or Holy Ghost) can dwell with anybody, or with any group of people, but the people who have the “gift of the Holy Ghost” have the right to receive His presence. Or in other words, those outside of the Church, who do not have the “gift of the Holy Ghost” because nobody with authority has been authorized to give them that gift which can only come to them by the laying on of hands of those who do have the authority to give that gift, can still receive the presence of the Holy Ghost if the Holy Ghost chooses to dwell with them, but those who have the gift of the Holy Ghost have the right to call the Holy Ghost to them, while knowing that He will come to them if they are worthy of His presence.

And that’s basically all I wanted to add, because everything else you said was right on, although I will also say that the best gifts available by the power of the Holy Ghost are the revelations of truth with love from God. :)

[prisonchaplain]

#1: The Holy Spirit is not the same Spirit or person as the Spirit of our Lord or our heavenly Father. Or in other words, the Holy Ghost is usually the person we are referring to by the name of the Holy Spirit, but the Holy Spirit can also refer to the Spirit of our Lord or even the Spirit of our Father in heaven, because their Spirits are also Holy. In some of your posts you seemed to know this, but in some of your other posts I wasn’t so sure.

Although we can grasp the Godhead, the totality of it is beyond us. The Father, Son and Holy Spirit are indeed three persons, yet one God. So Jesus is a distinct person, yet, when we see him we see the Father. And, he is called "Everlasting Father" by Isaiah. He relates to the Father as a dutiful Son, yet the Father says to him, "Your throne, O God, will last forever..." Likewise, the Holy Spirit is a distinct person, with his own attributes and will. Yet, He reflects and communicates the will of the Father, and yes, of the Godhead to us. So, I think I get it--and yet, we are all still getting it.

The Holy Spirit (or Holy Ghost) will only dwell within us (with his Spirit mingled with our spirit in our physical body) only as long as we are righteous, because the moment we do anything to offend the Holy Ghost he will leave our physical body… .although He may decide to come back to us once we have done our best to Repent.

And yet, we are told God will chase after us, even into the pits of hell. It is the Holy Spirit who brings conviction, and helps us to stop, repent, and turn back to the right way. Of course, our communion with the Spirit is deeper and holier when we walk in righteousness. However, when we stumble, not only does He eagerly await our repentence, he draws us to it, and holds our hand as we enter into reconcilation.

The Holy Spirit (or Holy Ghost) can dwell within any body, with the understanding that He can’t tolerate any degree of unrighteousness, but within only one body at a time, although His power can be felt by every body who receives a manifestation from Him. Or in other words, the Holy Spirit is a person, and any person can only be in one place at a time, but He can help every body to feel His presence by the power He has to do that. And btw, when I first joined the Church, this was made more clear to me by using an analogy of the sun, which is in only one place in our solar system and can be felt by all who feel it.

Is this Ray talking, or the LDS Church? The Holy Spirit is Spirit, and can dwell with all God's people at the same time. When many souls are converted at one time, the Holy Spirit indwells each of them. And, He stays with us all the time. I walk, "not by might, nor by power, but by the Spirit."

He will come to them if they are worthy of His presence.

I didn't really want to repeat the whole discussion about authority, and who can receive the gift of the Spirit, in this thread. I did take note of your point, though. I am curious about this clip, though. I would argue than none are worthy of His presence, other than by the shed blood of Christ. Even Isaiah, probably the greatest of the Old Testament prophets, fell on his face, and declared himself and his people (the Jews--God's Chosen) to be unclean people with unclean lips." "It's not by works of righteousness, but according to his mercy...

And that’s basically all I wanted to add, because everything else you said was right on, although I will also say that the best gifts available by the power of the Holy Ghost are the revelations of truth with love from God. :)

The fruit of the Spirit, which is love (1 Cor. 13) is available to "whosoever will may come"

[Ray]

I've helped you as much as I can, Tommy. Keep learning by learning from God. :)

And btw, I hope you will someday find out whether or not I am speaking for myself, or whether I am speaking and/or writing as I am moved by the power of the Holy Ghost. And I hope that because I want to be one with you as I want to be one with God, and with everyone else who wants to be one with God. :)

[boyando]

Wow I thought tha the respounce to P.C.'s forrum wuld be off the charts with my fellow Laterday Saints because the Godhead is less of a mystery to us. Anyone who reads Joseph Smith's First Vision can see the Godhead in its intirety.

[Jason]

And I thought this thread was going to be about Heavenly Mother.

[Guest ApostleKnight]

And I thought this thread was going to be about Heavenly Mother.

In certain circles in Utah, it would. Hey, where'd you get the cool animated .GIF for your avatar?

[Maureen]

And I thought this thread was going to be about Heavenly Mother.

Jason must be referring to this idea:

...Some Mormons identify the Heavenly Mother as being the Holy Ghost, sometimes citing Gnostic documents referring to the "Trinity of the Father, Mother, and Son", and the Apocryphal Gospel of the Hebrews, where Jesus Christ is reported to say, "My mother, the Holy Spirit took me just now by one of my hairs and carried me off to the great mount Tabor." (See Origen, p. 329-330 (1885-96).)

However, official statements by the LDS Church concerning the Holy Ghost are incompatible with the idea that the Holy Ghost is the Heavenly Mother. The Church has continuted to maintain that the Holy Ghost is male and that little has been revealed on the subject, therefore anything other than acknowledgement of a Heavenly Mother is speculative.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heavenly_Mother

M.