Disbelief in the Family

[SeekingAdvice]

A sibling has admitted their disbelief in the Mormon Church. My parents are having an exceptionally hard time dealing with this. I was wondering if there were any official instructions or literature on how to healthily handle the news and changed relationship for parents in such a situation. I am not looking for proselytizing information, but advice or guidance for a parent to healthily handle dealing with unavoidable conflict and emotional struggle that emerges from such a situation. If there isn't such official literature out there, or even if there is, I would also like to know of other people's experiences that relate to this. Again, I am not looking for proselytizing advice, but relationship/emotional advice so that my parents can cope and handle this situation in a more positive and healthy manner for themselves. Thank you.

[applepansy]

It broke my heart when my second son announced he didn't believe in God let alone the church. I cried. I bore my testimony. Then... I just loved him.

There is a lot of information. Its mostly in conference talks. I also found Robert Millet's book "When a Child Wanders" very helpful.

We have a good relationship with our son. He says he's agnostic. He'll be 30 this May. Its his life. He was Heavenly Father's son before he was mine. I'm working hard to get myself to the celestial kingdom and I certainly cannot and should not try to get someone else there.... that's a agency issue. I know that he knows the truth. He was endowed and served 6 months of a mission before coming home. I know that Heavenly Father is mindful of him, so its my job to love him, set an example, bear my testimony when prompted by the spirit, and pray continually as well as make the sacrifices needed to get the answers to my prayers.

:) Sometimes I pray for an Alma-the-Younger-experience for him.

[alexm8]

I have a daughter that is somewhat in a similar situation, although she hasn't come right out and said she doesn't believe. She is a rebellious type of spirit that seems to be just looking for a reason not to believe.

What I find that helps her is to talk with her, but to really just let her talk. I don't say anything, just listen. I ask questions about the things that she struggles with, what her friends think about it, and what she thinks God thinks about it (you can use "what if" there was a God, what would He think about it). I also try to remind her about times she has felt God's love, and how He has answered her prayers in the past.

Sometimes she doesn't want to talk. In situations like that I follow her around, which sometimes really annoys her, but I tell her that I love her and won't leave without talking. I promise to her that I won't preach to her, which helps. Sometimes we've just sat there on the bed for a while without saying anything, which can seem like forever (but probably only about 15 mins). After that, she will open up and tell me her concerns.

But, I realize that only works for a while. They still have to do their part by actively seeking (reading scriptures, praying, etc). But at least I can encourage her that God is the only one that really knows her heart and can help her if she asks.

[Guest mormonmusic]

Sometimes I pray for an Alma-the-Younger-experience for him.

I came to the realization that the "keys to the ministering of angels" -- a gift given as part of receiving the Aaronic priesthood may well have to do with the keys to having ministering angels SENT to others, like Applepansy's sons. I believe Alma-The-Younger exercised that gift.

However, that is an aside. Rightly or wrongly I'm starting to believe there are ample opportunities along the way for people to repent, and that this world is SO unstructured and unclear when it comes to what is absolute truth, that even my kids, if they lose belief, will have a chance under better circumstances to know, and live the truth. I will never preach this to them, and will take the approach that this life is the time to prepare to meet God, but in my heart, I believe this is so.

Just think about the impact it will have when you pass on from this life, and find that the spirit world does exist, that you ARE eternal, and there IS spirit prison and paradise -- won't that light a fire under a few people's underpants? We have that to hope for, and I believe people who never had a testimony, though raised in the Church, will be dealt with mercifully. As will people who lose their faith over terrible treatment or experiences within the Church. But that's just me.

Edited March 26, 2011 by mormonmusic

[rameumptom]

Several Apostles have recently taught in General Conference that when parents do the best they can, and the child strays, if the parents continue in faith and love, they will again see their child with them. President Faust especially has spoken on this twice, but so has President Packer.

[RipplecutBuddha]

Since I don't have kids, I can't really speak from that angle. I have had friends leave the church though, so I am somewhat familiar with the situation.

My reaction was to accept their choice as one they had a right to make. That took a while, but after that the rest was easy. I didn't stop, or hide any of my behavior as a member. I talked to them about scripture verses I was studying at the time, I invited them out to events in the church. I even invited them to come to my missionary farewell.

In short, I accepted them and loved them just the same as before. I also kept trying to be an example to them of a true friend. When they asked for help with stuff, I was there. I lost contact with them during my mission, but I still pray for them now and again to be blessed according to God's will.

We do what we can, then leave the rest in God's hands.

[blackknight5k]

Different from everyone else in here, I was the son who professed disbelief in the church. Actually, I should say Grandson because my dad wasn't an active member.

What to do -

1 - love them

2 - don't cut them out of your life

3 - love them more

What NOT to do -

1 - talk about the church every time you see them, my grandfather would have a 30 - 45 minute lecture for me every time I went over there. This only pushes them away and frustrates them.

2 - make them go to church, if they still live with you. My dad made me go to seminary every class for 2 years, but we didn't go to church on sundays. I have no idea why he thought he should force me to go to this class at 6:00 every morning when they wouldn't even get up to go to church at 9:00 once a week.

Anyway, that's my $0.02 - hope it helps.

[SeekingAdvice]

First, thanks to everybody who has already responded so promptly!!

My followup questions is has anybody come to terms that their child may not "return to the fold"?

I didn't make this clear before, but now I think I can articulate it better: I don't want to bolster hopes as much as foster a heart of peace within my parents, as well as to prevent the relationship between my family and my brother from disintegrating.

My mother reacted very angrily to him, saying that he was a coward, a liar, that she didn't know him at all, that he was a stranger to her, etc. My father reacted by saying that if the Church wasn't true than he (my father) was either a liar or delusional, and that my brother needs to work harder to find out that the Gospel is true.

I find both reactions problematic.

My mother's reaction is obviously very negative, and I seriously fear that if she continues like this, it will devastate herself emotionally, as well as poison her relationship with my brother.

My father's reaction is problematic in a different way to me. It feels awfully coercive in the sense that he's forcing my brother to tell him that his father is a liar or delusional if he (my brother) really thinks the Church isn't true. As applepansy put it, "I'm working hard to get myself to the celestial kingdom and I certainly cannot and should not try to get someone else there.... that's a agency issue." My father though is trying to strongarm him into reading a bunch of books in the hopes that they'll convince my brother. The underlying tone seems to be that "I refuse to believe that you won't believe, can't believe, or don't believe. You must do all these things." It feels like undercutting free agency of the other to me.

My brother has said that he has struggled with his nonbelief for years. He has been exposed and attended umpteen years of church, general conferences, etc. I don't think that coercing him into reading a bunch of books may change anything. I don't think it just popped into his head one day and then he told my parents. If my brother changes his mind, I think at this point it must come from his own mind and thoughts, and not through the reading equivalent of a series of arguments.

I personally don't think my brother has done any major sins. He's a good man. He's bent over backwards to make my parents proud of him in the past before this. I prefer to trust people's words until they've demonstrated that those words can't be trusted. I trust that my brother sincerely and genuinely doesn't believe that the Church is true. I don't think he is a liar, a coward, that he has committed some major sin, or that he has undergone some transformation to a completely different person into some sort of stranger. He's the same person he was before -- except now he has said that he has not believed that the Church is true for years, and that he dreaded telling the family how he really felt, but finally felt that he must be true to what he really believes and to what he doesn't believe.

As such in this situation, my major concern is that my parents obtain a peace of heart and don't destroy or poison their relationship with their son.

While I certainly understand parents holding out hopes that their child will "return to the fold", I know my parents already do, I want them to obtain peace of heart and acceptance of my brother's exercise of his free agency. I'm looking to how to foster the best possible situation that assumes my brother's nonbelief is permanent, rather than temporary.

Are there any talks specifically about how to come to peace with the possibility that a child may not "return to the fold"?

I'm not good at picking out talks/etc from the Internet, I tried already with much frustration, then which I came here, so if anybody knows if there are relavant links to this, let me know!

Again, thank you for all of your thoughts and words. :-)

Edited March 26, 2011 by SeekingAdvice

[livy111us]

I would recommend reading "Shaken Faith Syndrome" by Mike Ash. It goes over the psychological reason for apostasy, what you can do to help that person, and answers to common critical questions. It will help you better understand where he is coming from so you can help him out.

FAIR LDS Bookstore - Shaken Faith Syndrome

[SeekingAdvice]

I would recommend reading "Shaken Faith Syndrome" by Mike Ash. It goes over the psychological reason for apostasy, what you can do to help that person, and answers to common critical questions. It will help you better understand where he is coming from so you can help him out.

FAIR LDS Bookstore - Shaken Faith Syndrome

I'm not looking for materials on how to bring back my brother back to the fold (that's a lot easier to find), but for materials on how to help my parents obtain a peace of heart and how not to let his nonbelief destroy their relationship with him. Are there any talks or materials that focus on just or substantially on this?

Thank you!

[ruthiechan]

YOU talk to your brother.

You talk to your parents.

Your parents feel betrayed, and they are doing the worst thing possible.

They have also forgotten that books and lectures do not make people believe. Only the spirit does that. Maybe your brother hasn't learned how to recognize the spirit and that's why he does not believe. But one thing is for sure, he has not converted. Everyone, even those who grow up in the church, need to convert, to have their own conversion story.

Pray for inspiration, seek counseling from the Bishop to help your parents understand that the way they are behaving is not Christlike and just pushes your brother away, and to help your brother understand that your parents are merely reacting.

Encourage your parents to seek counseling from the Bishop.

If your brother finds another belief system when beliefs come up focus on the similarities, for spiritual truths are a part of Mormonism and all religions have seeds of truth.

Also, when you talk to your parents and your brother about the current family dynamics, be sure that you do so with the Spirit to help guide you in what to say, how to say it, when to say it and when to listen.

[Guest Godless]

My followup questions is has anybody come to terms that their child may not "return to the fold"?

I think my parents have. It's a "moving on" sort of thing. You can only stay hurt for so long, and then you have to do the best you can to get past it and accept the decisions that others make. It's not easy, but it's what people do when they truly love someone.

What NOT to do -

1 - talk about the church every time you see them, my grandfather would have a 30 - 45 minute lecture for me every time I went over there. This only pushes them away and frustrates them.

I could not agree with this more. My parents did this for a while, and it caused a lot of tension between us. The biggest sign to me that they had accepted my decision was when they stopped bringing up the issue as much.

[applepansy]

My heart is heavy as I read your follow up post. Your parents have let Satan enter into the relationship and the discussion. I'm sure not on purpose but when we let anger rule our tongue then we drive the Holy Ghost away and that opens the door to Satan. He would love to tear your family apart. Contention is the tool he uses in all families and relationships.

My second son wasn't the only one of my children who have turned their back on the church and faith in God. My oldest son did too and I didn't handle it well. As I read your parents reaction I remembered my bad reaction. No matter how hard we hang on, no matter how angry we get, Heavenly Father will never allow us to take away our children's agency. They get to choose. I had to repent and I asked my oldest son for forgiveness. Just before he died (car accident at age 21 in Nov 1999) he told me he did believe in God and was going to try to change his life.

You cannot find peace for your parents. Only they can do that. You can pray for them as well as for your brother. If you get a chance and you feel its the right time you might want to ask your parents (either together or separately) how they think Christ would handle this situation? Luke 15:11-32 The parable of the prodigal son applies here, the emphasis should be on the righteous son's behavior...he was unforgiving. Your parents are hurt and they are reacting to that hurt with anger, not a good idea, but you can't change it. And right now they might not be able to change it either. They are hurting so try not to judge to harshly. All you can do is love everyone involved and hopefully help your parents understand that this is a big test of their charity....the true love of Christ.

In the 80s Elder Scott spoke a lot about these issues in his conference talks. He had a son who strayed. His talks helped me and I'm trying to find them. It will take me some time and you might be able to find them faster. Here is one quote from Elder Scott, “Never give up on a loved one, never!” (Ensign, May 1988, p. 60.)

The following is an excellent article about this:

Keeping the Door Open and the Stew Hot: Loving and Helping a Wayward Child - Ensign Aug. 1982

Elder Faust, 2003 Dear Are the Sheep That Have Wandered

Other helpful books:

"What's a Parent to Do?" by Glenn L. Latham

"Rescuing Wayward Children" by Larry Barkdull

and I already mentioned "When a Child Wanders" by Robert L. Millet

Rameumptum is right. I think the original quote is from Pres. McKay, but my brain is foggy tonight.

There is talk on CD that I listen to often. Its called "Receiving Answers to Our Prayers" By Gene R. Cook. Elder Cook was in the Seventy. Its an excellent talk. It helps me align my prayers, actions and sacrifices in a way that is more in line with what my Heavenly Father wants.

I'm so sorry your family is going through this turmoil. I know that through the Atonement even this can be endured. Give it to the Lord. In the end and after everyone here at lds.net has had their say, He is the only one who understands the hearts of everyone in your family. It is only through Christ's atonement that all the hurt feelings and disappointments will be healed. The atonement isn't just for those who have done something wrong. I believe strongly that the atonement is for those who have been hurt.

One last thing.... get everyone's name on the temple prayer roll and keep them there. The names stay on the prayer roll for two weeks. My 2nd son's name has been on the prayer roll for years with very little interruption. I know it works!!! His heart is softening. He didn't slam the door on the YSA leader when she went to find him a while back. :) We can also talk about faith with smiles on occasion. :)

EDIT: I agree with blackknight5k and Godless. I don't talk about religion with my son unless he brings it up or unless I'm very strongly prompted to by the spirit (which is not very often). I know that its not going to be me who brings my son back to the church and belief in God. Its going to be the Lord and in His own time.

Edited March 26, 2011 by applepansy
addition

[hyohko]

Here is a resource you can send to your brother (and possibly your parents) while he is navigating his faith crises. I'd also recommend some - not all - of the stuff written by John Dehlin to him.

HOW TO STAY IN THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS AFTER A MAJOR CHALLENGE TO YOUR FAITH

Carefully read the disclaimers. The advice presented is not for the faithful or for those who may be doubting one or two principles. In time, he may not need the advice at all, having grown past it.

Edited March 26, 2011 by hyohko

[livy111us]

While the latter half speaks about answers to anti-Mormon questions, I think the first half would help. Here is an article that deals directly with the issue you raise. Make sure to also read the articles in the footnotes as well. They generally come from General Conference talks and are very good.

Mormonism and culture/Wayward family members - FAIRMormon

I would also recommend Wendy Ulrich's work

"Believest thou...?": Faith, Cognitive Dissonance, and the Psychology of Religious Experience

http://www.fairlds.org/FAIR_Conferences/2007-Wendy-Ulrich.pdf

[Saintmichaeldefendthem1]

Seekingadvice,

I'm trying to glean from your posts whether your brother has ceased believing in God and Christianity or just the Church of Jesus Christ, Latter Day Saints. These are two, I think, very different problems. Some are hostile to religion altogether because they reject their upbringing, but in the case of the LDS, I can see rejecting LDS but not Christianity. The LDS have historical claims and a 3rd testament that are either true or untrue which make them unique in the Christian family. My own parents used to be RLDS and they left, citing biblical errors in doctrine. But they didn't leave Christianity and now my father pastors a pentacostal church.

The question further is, if your brother is still a Christian, is that enough? You see, my parents are unconcerned that I became Catholic because they both know I'm still saved. I believe the same way toward Mormons and will not expend any effort to draw anyone out of the LDS church. If anyone has embraced Christ by any means then I can only rejoice and not seek to fix that which isn't broken.

[SeekingAdvice]

Thank you again for the many replies and feedback!! :-)

Godless, my question to you is do you remember any "turning point" in how your parents interacted with you? Were they given any advice from a doctrinal or church stance that encouraged them to just love you, find peace within themselves, and respect your decision?

livy111us, thank you so much for those great links! This will absolutely give me a good starting point and platform to work from.

Saintmichaeldefendthem1, my brother expressed disbelief in religion in general. He is not hostile to religions. He has expressed that he is thankful for some of his religious upbringing, but that he nevertheless he doesn't believe in the Church or any religion for that matter. He has made all efforts to avoid hostility between him and our family over his nonbelief. The hostility is expressedly from both of my parents.

[mightynancy]

Wow. This, sadly, sounds a lot like what's going on in my cousin's family.

I think I'd call my parents on the carpet and ask them what, exactly, are they doing that could be called Christian?

[Saintmichaeldefendthem1]

Saintmichaeldefendthem1, my brother expressed disbelief in religion in general. He is not hostile to religions. He has expressed that he is thankful for some of his religious upbringing, but that he nevertheless he doesn't believe in the Church or any religion for that matter. He has made all efforts to avoid hostility between him and our family over his nonbelief. The hostility is expressedly from both of my parents.

Thank you for clarifying that. Having a better understanding of your situation, my observations are as follows.

1. Hostility toward your brother by your parents is only a symptom of what drove your brother from religion to begin with. They didn't suddenly become hostile, they've always been that way.

2. Your brother has no reason to value religion because the examples he's seen of it, his parents, lead him to conclude that one is no better off being religious. Since religion has been in his life a source of contention, he is seeking a life uncomplicated by it.

3. Your efforts to change your parents are futile. They are mentally ill. It's important that your brother come to understand that so that he learns to disassociate religion in general with the practitioners of it he grew up with. Helping him to see that will be far more fruitful for you.

4. With mental illness, it's important to not take anything personally. Be polite and respectful, never engaging them or getting upset at their behavior. Once your brother understands that their behavior is a result of a malady rather than religion, he may be open to giving religion a fresh look someday.

I hope this helps.

[SeekingAdvice]

Your efforts to change your parents are futile. They are mentally ill. It's important that your brother come to understand that so that he learns to disassociate religion in general with the practitioners of it he grew up with. Helping him to see that will be far more fruitful for you.

Thank you for your feedback, but I will have to differ from you. First, I don't think you have enough information to diagnose my parents. I think attributing negative behavior that one doesn't condone by religious people to be mental illness is itself problematic. It reminds me of the "No True Scotsman" logical fallacy. If a person of the group you identify with does something which you find unacceptable, it doesn't necessarily and automatically mean that they then aren't a "true" member of the group or that they are mentally ill.

Saying that, I want to state that I don't think mental illness is anything to be ashamed of. I just don't think that such a diagnosis of my parents is justified given the information put forth.

Hostility toward your brother by your parents is only a symptom of what drove your brother from religion to begin with. They didn't suddenly become hostile, they've always been that way. Your brother has no reason to value religion because the examples he's seen of it, his parents, lead him to conclude that one is no better off being religious. Since religion has been in his life a source of contention, he is seeking a life uncomplicated by it.

My parents aren't terrible or horrible examples of the Church. Their response to his expressing his nonbelief may not be recommandable in this case, certainly, but I don't think that is enough to judge them wholly as poor examples of the Mormon Church. Even if they were, and they aren't, my parents still aren't my brother's sole source of examples of people within the Mormon Church. As such, I don't think his nonbelief can reasonably be attributed to my parents. My brother has expressedly said that his nonbelief isn't because of any particular person(s) or because of anything my parents did or did not do. I know this is a common assumption of people who leave the Church, that somebody in the Church did or behaved very negatively and that it turned them off to the Church, but, again, I trust my brother's words at face value since I have no good evidence to believe otherwise. His nonbelief, according to him, is just the conclusion which he has arrived to over time.

I don't approve of how my parents are responding to his nonbelief, but I feel it is only fit to judge the action in question, and not the person's heart as a whole.

[a1000tears]

Where to begin...Others have given you a great starting point..but it doens't surprise me that the parents are the first to be judged and attacked in situations just like this. It leads me to believe that they have no understanding of the situation until they are faced with it themselves.

I do want to give you a parent's perspective and I hope it will help you understand where your parents are coming from.

It isn't just about anger. It's about death. When you have given your love, sacrificed your dreams, your life and so many other things for your children and then to find out that you may loose them, is probably one of the most devastating things a parent has to face. Something inside them has broken, never to be recovered and never to be the same. A life and belief they had of their son. Things will never be the same. That is not something anyone get's over soon. It's as if someone has taken a dagger to your heart and twisted it, prodded, poked and left bleeding and there is NOTHING you can do. Your heart is forever changed. It doesn't mean your parents don't love him but they've lost something ...something that they cherished about your brother and it's gone.

Just trust me when I say that your parent's reactions are not about your brother but about themselves...the thoughts about where they went wrong, and all the would've, could've, dialogs that go through their heads. It's the same as a death..it's a missed opportunity that they can't help but blame themselves and will probably never forgive themselves. Because they can't get it back.

The only advice I can give is to encourage your brother to keep talking to your parents, hopefully, he will understand that their negative reactions are not about his decision but about their perceived failures as a parent. It doesn't matter if your brother tells them it's not their fault, they still may believe it is their fault.

This kind of thing cut's deep...anything that happens with our kids is like loosing a part of ourselves.

Anyway, I just felt the need to bring some enlightenment from a parent's point of view.

[mightynancy]

I understand that the parents are pained (my siblings have not all remained active in the Church, with one rejecting it outright), but hostility is neither kind nor effective.

[Saintmichaeldefendthem1]

Thank you for your feedback, but I will have to differ from you. First, I don't think you have enough information to diagnose my parents. I think attributing negative behavior that one doesn't condone by religious people to be mental illness is itself problematic. It reminds me of the "No True Scotsman" logical fallacy. If a person of the group you identify with does something which you find unacceptable, it doesn't necessarily and automatically mean that they then aren't a "true" member of the group or that they are mentally ill.

You're right that my assessment is based on the information you gave, but let's review that information. You said your brother had felt this way for several years from which I surmised that there was behaviors pushing him away from religion long before the revelation. Your parents reacted in a way that rational people would know defeats the purpose of trying to get your brother back to belief. When people act irrationally over a sustained period of time, it's not a stretch to suggest mental illness may be involved. None of my advice is off-the-cuff. I took a careful look at the facts you presented, thought about it, and gave you my observations.

Saying that, I want to state that I don't think mental illness is anything to be ashamed of.

Good. I'm glad you understand that. Then there should be no resistance to exploring this possibility.

My parents aren't terrible or horrible examples of the Church. Their response to his expressing his nonbelief may not be recommandable in this case, certainly, but I don't think that is enough to judge them wholly as poor examples of the Mormon Church.

It's important your brother understand this, that the behavior of his parents do not exemplify the LDS faith. It may be that in his mind this the normal response expected of a Mormon.

Even if they were, and they aren't, my parents still aren't my brother's sole source of examples of people within the Mormon Church. As such, I don't think his nonbelief can reasonably be attributed to my parents. My brother has expressedly said that his nonbelief isn't because of any particular person(s) or because of anything my parents did or did not do.

It's no surprise he said this. He's trying to avoid the conflict that would ensue if he were to cite his parents as the reason he left. From the information you gave, he seems to have no hangups about particular doctrines, so that leaves personal experiences. And if out of all the Mormons in his life, your parents were the ones setting a bad example, it's not hard to figure out they may be the cause for his decision. Nobody has a greater influence on children than their own parents.

I know this is a common assumption of people who leave the Church, that somebody in the Church did or behaved very negatively and that it turned them off to the Church, but, again, I trust my brother's words at face value since I have no good evidence to believe otherwise. His nonbelief, according to him, is just the conclusion which he has arrived to over time.

His responses are intentionally cryptic. Does he fear what he says to you will get back to your parents? I admire your brother's maturity. It seems he is doing everything he can to keep the peace.

I don't approve of how my parents are responding to his nonbelief, but I feel it is only fit to judge the action in question, and not the person's heart as a whole.

You feel attacked because you think I am attacking your parents. I am not. You sought advice along the lines of helping you change your parents, and you need to know you can't. They have been like this for years and you're not going to stop them. You bristle at the idea that they may suffer from mental illness, but everything you said points in that direction. This isn't judging your parents, this is an outsider's assessment of your situation. The only unique thing about my advice compared to others who have answered you is that I'm telling you things you don't want to hear. I'm glad it draws your ire because it means you're at least half listening. I hope you'll give this as much thought as I have given to your situation.

[SeekingAdvice]

Your parents reacted in a way that rational people would know defeats the purpose of trying to get your brother back to belief. When people act irrationally over a sustained period of time, it's not a stretch to suggest mental illness may be involved. None of my advice is off-the-cuff. I took a careful look at the facts you presented, thought about it, and gave you my observations.

Again, I will have to differ. Everybody acts irrationally, all the time. We are not rational animals. We are rationalizing animals. We can cultivate rational thinking to greater degrees, but we aren't born and instantly inherent a rational mind. Irrationality is not in itself inherently wrong or negative. Selfless courage in the face of great danger, for example, can be regarded as irrational.

The fact that my brother concealed his nonbelief for years is not evidence that my parents exhibit mental illness. It is understanding that his nonbelief will have an emotional impact upon his family which made him want to conceal. It is perfectly understandable for parents to feel like failures, for example, when their children decided not to believe the belief system they were raised with. It is perfectly understandable for parents, when they believe that their belief system is what would be best for their children, to respond emotionally when their children don't adopt it.

It's important your brother understand this, that the behavior of his parents do not exemplify the LDS faith. It may be that in his mind this the normal response expected of a Mormon. It's no surprise he said this. He's trying to avoid the conflict that would ensue if he were to cite his parents as the reason he left. From the information you gave, he seems to have no hangups about particular doctrines, so that leaves personal experiences. And if out of all the Mormons in his life, your parents were the ones setting a bad example, it's not hard to figure out they may be the cause for his decision. Nobody has a greater influence on children than their own parents.

You are making the error of acting as if you can pyschoanalyze a situation. You do not have substantial information nor do you have a full-sided account of information. Your intrepretation may make sense to you, but that doesn't mean it is a correct interpetation. You also are exercising the logical fallacy that if A isn't so, B is so. The fact that he didn't communicate about any particular beliefs he doesn't accept doesn't mean that there isn't any particular beliefs he doesn't accept. Moreover, you are ignoring that he stated that he has come to a conclusion that he doesn't believe that the Church is true, as well as a disbelief in religion in general. This itself suggests that there are things about the Church/religion in general that he doesn't accept. The fact that he doesn't make a litany of which things he doesn't accept doesn't mean that there isn't one. It just means, for example, that he doesn't want to be seen as attacking the family's beliefs, but just that he wants to be honest that he doesn't believe in them.

His responses are intentionally cryptic. Does he fear what he says to you will get back to your parents? I admire your brother's maturity. It seems he is doing everything he can to keep the peace.

My brother trusts me. I don't and have never tell something that has been given to me in confidence. The likely reason that he isn't listing everything he doesn't believe is likely to keep the peace. I suspect that he doesn't want to be seen as attacking the Church, he just doesn't want to pretend that he still believes in the Church.

You feel attacked because you think I am attacking your parents. I am not. You sought advice along the lines of helping you change your parents, and you need to know you can't.

Again, you err in assuming that you can read into other people's minds without deeply knowing them. I do not feel attacked. I simply think that you are making assertions without valid merit and knowledge to make them. I am not seeking to change my parents either. I am seeking to influence a situation. This is quite different.

The only unique thing about my advice compared to others who have answered you is that I'm telling you things you don't want to hear. I'm glad it draws your ire because it means you're at least half listening. I hope you'll give this as much thought as I have given to your situation.

Again, you make a logical fallacy. Simply because somebody rejects an assertion you make doesn't mean that this rejection itself proves your assertion. Nor does it prove that the person isn't fully listening to you. If you are as rational as you appear to think you are, you must accept the possibility that somebody can fully listen to you, and also rationally disagree with you just the same. If you cannot accept this possibility, this suggests you believe your thinking exists without errancy, and this itself is an irrational belief.

[jayanna]

I personally don't have a child rejecting the gospel, but for a while my hubby was not on the path, and was not planning to join me on the path. I was so impatient, I wanted to grab him and shake the stupid out. I wanted to spoon-feed him a testimony. I wanted to argue him into doing the right thing. The most I could do was make him miserable if he did not go to church. The best thing I did was go to the temple and get my endowments. I was happy with myself, and felt so loved and excited and joyful. I was grateful to him and kinder and more patient...and he wanted to know why. He got ready to go and we were sealed less than a year later.

I seriously doubt that a son/daughter's rejection of the gospel is necessarily due to bad parenting or parents with mentla illness.

Lehi's children didn't all accept the gospel.

Jesus' own siblings (I am specifically thinking of James here) didn't necessarily accept it right away either, even though they had Mary and Joseph as parents and Christ for a brother.

Adam had both Cain and Able.

This has been going on since the dawn of time. This is not a new challenge.

A member of my Stake Pres. has a wayward child, he is a great and wonderful patient and kind teacher.

One thing we have to realize is the power of the sealing ordinance. I don't know if you have had an opportunity to listen to it lately, you might suggest it to your parents, to go to the temple and perform some sealings and have a listen.

This was a lesson given by our SP in Stake conf. recently. When you are sealed there is a special promise made about your children, they will be given every possilbe opportunity to recieve a testimony of the gospel...really go to the temple if you can and study it out in your mind, it is very comforting.