Profanity

[Ferki]

I was wondering if anyone here can help me with a small delema I am having. I have been going out with this guy for almost a year and I really like him but one thing bugs me, I know he swears. Almost never around me (small things slip occasionaly) but I know he does it around his friends and thinks there is nothing wrong with it or actually more like doesn't think it is wrong enough to change. For me, I have been a member all my life surrounded by member family and friends and swearing and profanity have always been a big no, no. He has been a member since he was 7, and is a great guy over all, but his family and friends are not. Most of the youth at church are in the same predicament as well, but he tries harder than most, for me. Since moving here, I am pretty sure I have been a big influence on him, he is trying a lot harder to be "temple worthy". For a long time I really wanted to believe he didn't say such things, then when he slipped and said a few really little common ones, I thought, or hoped he only said those things. I know his friends use the REALLY bad language (I hope you understand the diffenece between little and REALLY bad, I am not sure how to explain), but I hoped he didn't follow, I wanted him to be better than that. But the other day, he let a REALLY bad one slip. He apologized, but I just wanted to cry. Am I overreacting? Should I talk to him about the importance of clean language? The longer I go I start to doubt myself and start rationalizing why it is OK. What do I say? I don't know, it sure seems to be much ado over nothing but I could sure use your advice. Thanks

[shanstress70]

I've never seen the problem with swearing, besides just that it's tacky. I do get quite angry when I'm out with my little one and people within earshot are using profanity. But normally it doesn't bother me... I just see it as immature. I've never understood why certain words are horrible, but other words with just one letter or so changed is acceptable. I don't think it's sacreligious to use curse words, unless it's using God's name in vain... that is horrible. Take the sh-- word... why is this so bad? Who decided that this will be a bad word, when other words that are interchangeable with it are acceptable? I've never gotten a good explanation for this.

Maybe you should try asking your BF to not curse around you. When you're not with him, I don't see what business it is of yours. If he's doing drugs, or similar things, it's another story... but swearing?

[john doe]

I think the fact that he obviously goes to great lengths to consciously avoid using bad language around you says a lot. He recognizes that swearing may bother you, and he respects you enough to try to not swear when you're around. If you 'have the talk' with him about his language, he may distance himself from you, since he probably already knows how you feel about it, and your saying something about it may turn him off. Now, if he were to start using it around you, I think it would be appropriate to say something to him and let him know it offends you.

[Guest ApostleKnight]

I don't know, it sure seems to be much ado over nothing but I could sure use your advice. Thanks

Focus on what feels "right" to you. I'm not going to tell you what is right or wrong to what degree. We're not talking about doctrine, we're talking about a significant relationship with another person and what makes you happy (spiritually).

Compromise is a necessity in relationships. Trust me, though, you don't want to "sell out" on things that are core values. Hold tight to your morals, while opening your arms to change in less-critical areas. I'm referring to what type of food you each like, what type of music (profanity aside), how you communicate, taking interest in their interests, etc...

Don't give up what you want most, for what you want now. If his swearing when you're not around bothers you, you may need to look for another guy. Look deep inside, be true to yourself, know your needs and respect yourself. You can't make someone else truly happy if you're not truly happy.

I wouldn't tell yourself that you're stupid for worrying about this. You're free to be offended by whatever you want. If it's something you require, but other people don't require, that's okay. If your boyfriend is the type of guy you'd be happy with, he'll change his ways. If not, there's plenty of wheat in the field, ready to harvest.

Focusing on being Christ-like, temple worthy and receptive to the Holy Ghost is a worthy goal for you and any boy you choose to date. I wish you well.

[Palerider]

I will say this about profanity.....I think its wrong....and I think its vulgar.....the Savior never talked like that so I do not want to talk like that either.......thats my opinion

[BenRaines]

Unless I missed it you don't say how old you are or he is. Not that it is an excuse for profanity but some times people grow out of it.

My father didn't use profanity, I have not used it and my son does not. I believe that profanity is a learned behavior. You learn it from your father or your friends or the people you hang out with or work with.

If you don't want your children to grow up using profanity then he needs to stop it or it will become common in your house.

Personally I think the use of profanity is a sign of ignorance. People wanting to talk and not thinking fast enough use profanity to fill in the silence.

Ben Raines

[shanstress70]

I will say this about profanity.....I think its wrong....and I think its vulgar.....the Savior never talked like that so I do not want to talk like that either.......thats my opinion

I agree that it's an ugly practise, but I've never understood why some think it's sacreligious. How is it any more against God than say, burping loudly in public, which is an ugly practice as well but not necessarily against God.

[shanstress70]

I was visiting some friends from The church a few weeks ago, and while we were getting lunch ready, one of the kids said "bull poop", her mom was not very happy and said

" I don't want to hear that again, it's the literal translation of a swear." i stood and watched this but kept my mouth closed. The daughter responded.

"Can i say crap?" gotta love an 8 year old mind, and her mom said of course that was okay.

Darn, dang, crap, frig, flop, heck, what ever the word we choose to use in place of the "real" swear words. the spirit tends to be the exact same. We view the current swear words as horrible and unacceptable cause society has made them as such. but in all honesty, you really think some one saying "AWW CRAP" has a much different spirit in mind than some one saying the other? I don't mince words, i swear now and then it takes a lot most of the time, but i do it. how ever seeing hte person next to me use the exact same tone, but switch the word for something a lil more acceptable, really that's just splitting hairs in my eyes.

That's what I'm talkin' bout! Who made 's-h-i...' a curse word? Same with all the others. And yes, once in a while nothing else will do but to say the 'real thing'! I don't go 'round cursing, but once in a while it feels good... and no, it ain't Satan making me do it!

[Guest ApostleKnight]

how ever seeing hte person next to me use the exact same tone, but switch the word for something a lil more acceptable, really that's just splitting hairs in my eyes.

I don't go 'round cursing, but once in a while it feels good... and no, it ain't Satan making me do it!

Well I'm glad you two agree. :) However, the point of the original question wasn't, "Are swearing and substitute words equally bad," but, "Would I be stupid if I want to leave my boyfriend because he swears?"

I think just as you two are entitled to think swearing is fine, she's entitled to be offended by it. She's not trying to tell everyone on this board to not swear. She's simply saying she wants to be with someone with shared values, and that is perfectly fine in my mind.

[Ferki]

Hey, Thanks for all the quite response! I really appreciate all the different opinions. I think what I am going to do is hang with him. I don't feel like I should force my opions on him. As long as he tries to not do it around me, or make it difficult for me to hold my standards, I won't worry about it. Thanks again!

[Guest funkyfool]

That was a waste of a forum post. there is absolutely nothing wrong with swearing. All it does is help us express ourselves. What makes it so profane? i mean seriously...i find no problem in swearing. If the worse thing he does is swear..then you have found yourself an amazing guy..dont let him go because of a stupid thing like swearing.

[Guest MrsS]

That was a waste of a forum post. there is absolutely nothing wrong with swearing. All it does is help us express ourselves. What makes it so profane? i mean seriously...i find no problem in swearing. If the worse thing he does is swear..then you have found yourself an amazing guy..dont let him go because of a stupid thing like swearing.

Why don't we see what the First Presidency says about swearing and foul language.

Language

36550, For the Strength of Youth, Language, 22

“Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good” (Ephesians 4:29).

(29 Let no corrupt acommunication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers.)

How you speak says much about who you are. Clean and intelligent language is evidence of a bright and wholesome mind. Use language that uplifts, encourages, and compliments others. Do not insult others or put them down, even in joking. Speak kindly and positively about others so you can fulfill the Lord’s commandment to love one another. When you use good language, you invite the Spirit to be with you.

Always use the names of God and Jesus Christ with reverence and respect. Misusing their names is a sin. Profane, vulgar, or crude language or gestures, as well as jokes about immoral actions, are offensive to the Lord and to others. Foul language harms your spirit and degrades you. Do not let others influence you to use it.

Choose friends who use good language. Help others around you use clean language by your example and by good-naturedly encouraging them to choose other words. Politely walk away or change the subject when others around you use bad language.

If you have developed the habit of swearing, you can break it. Begin by making a decision to change. Pray for help. If you start to use words you know are wrong, keep quiet or say what you have to say in a different way.

James 3:2–13

2 For in many things we offend all. If any man offend not in word, the same is a perfect man, and able also to bridle the whole body.

3 Behold, we put bits in the horses’ mouths, that they may obey us; and we turn about their whole body.

4 Behold also the ships, which though they be so great, and are driven of fierce winds, yet are they turned about with a very small helm, whithersoever the governor listeth.

5 Even so the tongue is a little member, and boasteth great things. Behold, how great a matter a little fire kindleth!

6 And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity: so is the tongue among our members, that it defileth the whole body, and setteth on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire of hell.

7 For every kind of beasts, and of birds, and of serpents, and of things in the sea, is tamed, and hath been tamed of mankind:

8 But the tongue can no man tame; it is an unruly evil, full of deadly poison.

9 Therewith bless we God, even the Father; and therewith curse we men, which are made after the similitude of God.

10 Out of the same mouth proceedeth blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not so to be.

11 Doth a fountain send forth at the same place sweet water and bitter?

12 Can the fig tree, my brethren, bear olive berries? either a vine, figs? so can no fountain both yield salt water and fresh.

13 Who is a wise man and endued with knowledge among you? let him shew out of a good conversation his works with meekness of wisdom.

No it was not a waste of forum space, and yes there most definately is something wrong with swearing. What it expresses is the persons total lack of self worth and self respect.

Do you, Funk Fool, scorn the Prophet, the 12 Apostles,and your Bishopric because they do not swear or use foul lanquage? Do you think that they don't express themselves well with out the foul words? It is my observation that it is small-minded, crude and coarse people who use profanity. I am not saying that uneducated people swear more, or that those who swear are uneducated, because I know uneducated people who do NOT swear or use foul language.

[Palerider]

we can make all the excuses we want.....profanity is still bad and wrong.....my opinion

[Lindy]

.... I wanted him to be better than that. But the other day, he let a REALLY bad one slip. He apologized, but I just wanted to cry. Am I overreacting? Should I talk to him about the importance of clean language? The longer I go I start to doubt myself and start rationalizing why it is OK. What do I say? I don't know, it sure seems to be much ado over nothing but I could sure use your advice. Thanks

I think he wants to be better than that too Ferki..... he at least apologizes when he does it around you.... give him credit for that. You say he is tring? That's a good thing. I'm sure he will try harder with you in his life than out of it. As long as you know who you are.... you can be there to help him try to beat his problem. It's part of service to others.... don't judge.

We all grow up with different rules and views on things.... swear words or jestures are classified bad by society or cultures.

I gave up a lot of things when I joined the church... swearing was one of them... it really is a learned habit.....and not an easy one to break either. I know plenty of good people who cut loose with a swear word now and than.... doesn't diminish them in my eyes. However, I don't like the BIG ones like you said.... those I think are just vulgar.

[Guest ApostleKnight]

It's part of service to others.... don't judge.

Yes and no. We're supposed to judge actions: right and wrong. We're not supposed to judge someone's standing before God (unless we're a bishop and entitled to judge in Israel). So keep loving him sure, but you don't have to "turn a blind eye" to something you feel is wrong. You already know what to do, I think you just wanted some support. Good luck with your boyfriend.

[roman]

I was taught the swearing is a form of expression--------Its a carnal undisiplined mind trying to express itself

[shanstress70]

<div class='quotemain'>

how ever seeing hte person next to me use the exact same tone, but switch the word for something a lil more acceptable, really that's just splitting hairs in my eyes.

I don't go 'round cursing, but once in a while it feels good... and no, it ain't Satan making me do it!

Well I'm glad you two agree. :) However, the point of the original question wasn't, "Are swearing and substitute words equally bad," but, "Would I be stupid if I want to leave my boyfriend because he swears?"

I think just as you two are entitled to think swearing is fine, she's entitled to be offended by it. She's not trying to tell everyone on this board to not swear. She's simply saying she wants to be with someone with shared values, and that is perfectly fine in my mind.

I'm sorry for the misunderstanding... I went off on a tangent about why certain words are considered 'bad' when their counterparts are OK. I'll try to stay on topic.

It's ABSOLUTELY OK for her to not date the guy if he curses and she doesn't like cursing. That's why we date, to weed out the people with whom we are not compatible, for whatever reasons... maybe they slurp their soup loudly in public, exhibit bodily functions in public, spend all their money on comicbooks, curse, whatever. It's important to find out what qualities you like and which ones you don't so that when you do find that person and get married, it will have a greater chance of lasting.

I don't understand why it would bother her it if he doesn't curse in her presence, but that doesn't mean anything. Of course she has to do what she's comfortable with.

[shanstress70]

<div class='quotemain'>

That was a waste of a forum post. there is absolutely nothing wrong with swearing. All it does is help us express ourselves. What makes it so profane? i mean seriously...i find no problem in swearing. If the worse thing he does is swear..then you have found yourself an amazing guy..dont let him go because of a stupid thing like swearing.

Why don't we see what the First Presidency says about swearing and foul language.

Language

36550, For the Strength of Youth, Language, 22

“Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good” (Ephesians 4:29).

(29 Let no corrupt acommunication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers.)

How you speak says much about who you are. Clean and intelligent language is evidence of a bright and wholesome mind. Use language that uplifts, encourages, and compliments others. Do not insult others or put them down, even in joking. Speak kindly and positively about others so you can fulfill the Lord’s commandment to love one another. When you use good language, you invite the Spirit to be with you.

Always use the names of God and Jesus Christ with reverence and respect. Misusing their names is a sin. Profane, vulgar, or crude language or gestures, as well as jokes about immoral actions, are offensive to the Lord and to others. Foul language harms your spirit and degrades you. Do not let others influence you to use it.

Choose friends who use good language. Help others around you use clean language by your example and by good-naturedly encouraging them to choose other words. Politely walk away or change the subject when others around you use bad language.

If you have developed the habit of swearing, you can break it. Begin by making a decision to change. Pray for help. If you start to use words you know are wrong, keep quiet or say what you have to say in a different way.

James 3:2–13

2 For in many things we offend all. If any man offend not in word, the same is a perfect man, and able also to bridle the whole body.

3 Behold, we put bits in the horses’ mouths, that they may obey us; and we turn about their whole body.

4 Behold also the ships, which though they be so great, and are driven of fierce winds, yet are they turned about with a very small helm, whithersoever the governor listeth.

5 Even so the tongue is a little member, and boasteth great things. Behold, how great a matter a little fire kindleth!

6 And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity: so is the tongue among our members, that it defileth the whole body, and setteth on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire of hell.

7 For every kind of beasts, and of birds, and of serpents, and of things in the sea, is tamed, and hath been tamed of mankind:

8 But the tongue can no man tame; it is an unruly evil, full of deadly poison.

9 Therewith bless we God, even the Father; and therewith curse we men, which are made after the similitude of God.

10 Out of the same mouth proceedeth blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not so to be.

11 Doth a fountain send forth at the same place sweet water and bitter?

12 Can the fig tree, my brethren, bear olive berries? either a vine, figs? so can no fountain both yield salt water and fresh.

13 Who is a wise man and endued with knowledge among you? let him shew out of a good conversation his works with meekness of wisdom.

No it was not a waste of forum space, and yes there most definately is something wrong with swearing. What it expresses is the persons total lack of self worth and self respect.

Do you, Funk Fool, scorn the Prophet, the 12 Apostles,and your Bishopric because they do not swear or use foul lanquage? Do you think that they don't express themselves well with out the foul words? It is my observation that it is small-minded, crude and coarse people who use profanity. I am not saying that uneducated people swear more, or that those who swear are uneducated, because I know uneducated people who do NOT swear or use foul language.

So in the scriptures above, what does 'corrupt communication' mean? For example, would 's-h-i...' be considered corrupt, but 'crap' or 'crud' not be? I'm just saying, I don't know of anyone (LDS, other Christian, atheist, etc) who doesn't use expletives like this. Even my MIL who is LDS and TOTALLY tows the line uses 'darn'. How is that different from 'd-a-m...'?

I bet even the First Presidency would say 'shoot' if he stumped his toe in the middle of the night on the way to the bathroom! If there's ever one situation in my life that makes me curse, it's when I stump my dang toe in the middle of the night!

What I'm getting at is that my take on the scriptures, even the stuff you posted by the First Pres, is that they are talking about using God's (or Jesus') name in vain, and speaking harshly and negatively about/to others. Just my take though...

And no, I'm not saying that it's great to go around swearing, but I'm saying that it's not against God to say certain words that have nothing to do with God.

[Palerider]

I don't agree Shanstress.......just my opinion

[shanstress70]

I don't agree Shanstress.......just my opinion

And I totally respect your opinion. I'm just trying to figure this whole thing out. I assume you don't use curse words (those that have been labeled by society as such)... ever. Do you ever use words that are meant to be a substitute for those words, like darn, shoot, crap, dang? If not... super. If you do... how do justify those words being OK when the others are not?

Don't hate me... I'm just glad this topic was brought up because I've been trying to figure it out for a long time. And it isn't an LDS thing either, so I'm not picking on anyone's realigion - more of a generational thing if you ask me.

[Palerider]

whoa.....I never said anything about hate or anything.......I just said I don't agree that profanity is ok.....like I said earlier....Jesus Christ never talked like that....thatswho I think we should try to be more like....

[Guest MrsS]

To answer Shantress ~ No it is not okay to use substitute words. As for when I smack my toe or leg or any other body part in the night, I say OW, OUCH, OWIE, OWIE, OWIE. HURT, HURT, HURT. ( I really do to)

Satan will have you believe that darn, rats, shoot are okay to use. Even the Utah Mormons will have you believe that saying Heck is okay. It isn't. Not when you are saying it with the same foul and disgusting spirit.

In Other Words ~ If instead of saying You Mother F_ _ _ e r! You say instead : You Mother Feather, it is just the same because of your implied intent.

I don't have a clue what the Prophet, 12 Apostles, etc say when they are in the privacy of their homes, what matters is what they say in public.

I have faith that they practise at home what they do in public, just like I do. I do not curse, swear or use profain or foul language at home or in public.

FYI I was inactive for nearly 30 years ~ ALL of that time I was a Tavern Owner/ Bartender/ Cocktail Waitress/ customer of bars, taverns. I outswore the roughest, toughest, foulest mouthed people on earth! What did it prove? That I had a very small vocabulary, that I had zero self esteem and zero self worth!

In the 8 years that I have been back and active in the Church ~ learning a better vocabulary has been one of the hardest things for this ol gal to do ~ but I HAVE done it. Do the nasty words slip out now and again ~ NOT ON YOUR LIFE! I make certain that I will NEVER degrade myself, chase away the Holy Ghost and shame my Heavenly Father ever again by lowering my standards to that kind of filthy talk.

For nearly 30 years I danced with the devil, I will never do anything ever again to bring that advasary into my life again ~ and YES foul lanquage ~ swearing ~ cursing brings that thing into your life!

[shanstress70]

whoa.....I never said anything about hate or anything.......I just said I don't agree that profanity is ok.....like I said earlier....Jesus Christ never talked like that....thatswho I think we should try to be more like....

I know you didn't... I was just asking in advance that you not get angry for me trying to get you to discuss this further... the 'hate' thing was tongue-in-cheek. Just wondering if you use the substitute words or thought that they are OK, and if so, I wanted to get your reasoning.

Just lighthearted conversation here... I'm really a laid-back soul not looking for contention, Palerider. I'm really not challenging anyone.

To answer Shantress ~ No it is not okay to use substitute words. As for when I smack my toe or leg or any other body part in the night, I say OW, OUCH, OWIE, OWIE, OWIE. HURT, HURT, HURT. ( I really do to)

Satan will have you believe that darn, rats, shoot are okay to use. Even the Utah Mormons will have you believe that saying Heck is okay. It isn't. Not when you are saying it with the same foul and disgusting spirit.

In Other Words ~ If instead of saying You Mother F_ _ _ e r! You say instead : You Mother Feather, it is just the same because of your implied intent.

I don't have a clue what the Prophet, 12 Apostles, etc say when they are in the privacy of their homes, what matters is what they say in public.

I have faith that they practise at home what they do in public, just like I do. I do not curse, swear or use profain or foul language at home or in public.

FYI I was inactive for nearly 30 years ~ ALL of that time I was a Tavern Owner/ Bartender/ Cocktail Waitress/ customer of bars, taverns. I outswore the roughest, toughest, foulest mouthed people on earth! What did it prove? That I had a very small vocabulary, that I had zero self esteem and zero self worth!

In the 8 years that I have been back and active in the Church ~ learning a better vocabulary has been one of the hardest things for this ol gal to do ~ but I HAVE done it. Do the nasty words slip out now and again ~ NOT ON YOUR LIFE! I make certain that I will NEVER degrade myself, chase away the Holy Ghost and shame my Heavenly Father ever again by lowering my standards to that kind of filthy talk.

For nearly 30 years I danced with the devil, I will never do anything ever again to bring that advasary into my life again ~ and YES foul lanquage ~ swearing ~ cursing brings that thing into your life!

Thanks for answering that, Mrs S. I totally respect that you see the substitute words as equal to swear words. Even though I have somewhat differing views on profanity, I respect yours and it's nice to see consistency.

[begood2]

I have stayed out of this discussion for as long as I have because I felt that Ferki needed to make up her own mind on the relationship's continuance or not.

For me personally though profanity by a future spouse would be a bitter pill to swallow.

I've had to tolerate profanity by rude, obnoxious, abusive and ignorant people in school, in public places and at work, but I certainly don't want it in my home.

Do I use swear words or the substitute ones? ..."NO"! I agree it can be hard to keep from it because we are all bombarded by them everyday...on the street, in the store, at work, at school and on TV and radio and especially in movies even the ones made for kids.

My feelings on the use profanity goes back to a very early experience that I had in school on the play ground. When I was in the second and third grade there was a boy in class that stuttered. When he stuttered the majority of the students would laugh and make fun of him, but outside on the play ground away from the teacher, they would also curse and swear at him. A few of us kids would go to his aid, but his life at this school was truly miserable.

Even at that young age I wondered how and why some kids could be so cruel to another. I remember going home and telling my parents about the situation and we talked about some of the great gifts that God has given to man and how he should treat these gifts with respect and use them wisely.

A couple of the gifts that we talked about were the human brain and human speech.

Of all the animals in the animal kingdom ....man along possesses a superior brain and vocabulary ....this is a gift from God to us, a very special gift ....so why would you abuse such a gift by using it for cursing and swearing? For me this is the equivalent of taking this special gift that God has only given to man and throwing it back in God's face by using it in a disrespectful and abusive manner.

[shanstress70]

I have stayed out of this discussion for as long as I have because I felt that Ferki needed to make up her own mind on the relationship's continuance or not.

For me personally though profanity by a future spouse would be a bitter pill to swallow.

I've had to tolerate profanity by rude, obnoxious, abusive and ignorant people in school, in public places and at work, but I certainly don't want it in my home.

Do I use swear words or the substitute ones? ..."NO"! I agree it can be hard to keep from it because we are all bombarded by them everyday...on the street, in the store, at work, at school and on TV and radio and especially in movies even the ones made for kids.

My feelings on the use profanity goes back to a very early experience that I had in school on the play ground. When I was in the second and third grade there was a boy in class that stuttered. When he stuttered the majority of the students would laugh and make fun of him, but outside on the play ground away from the teacher, they would also curse and swear at him. A few of us kids would go to his aid, but his life at this school was truly miserable.

Even at that young age I wondered how and why some kids could be so cruel to another. I remember going home and telling my parents about the situation and we talked about some of the great gifts that God has given to man and how he should treat these gifts with respect and use them wisely.

A couple of the gifts that we talked about were the human brain and human speech.

Of all the animals in the animal kingdom ....man along possesses a superior brain and vocabulary ....this is a gift from God to us, a very special gift ....so why would you abuse such a gift by using it for cursing and swearing? For me this is the equivalent of taking this special gift that God has only given to man and throwing it back in God's face by using it in a disrespectful and abusive manner.

That is sad. It angers me to think of how cruel children can be. But perhaps a more important lesson to learn from this would be to speak nicely to people, and not just to forego swear words?

It is possible to be really mean and cruel to someone while never using a swear word - or even a substitute word. I know that you learned both lessons from this life experience, but I find it interesting that the curse word lesson seems to be the one that's highlighted most.