Will Mormon Fundamentalists Be In The Celestial Kingdom?

[Fiannan]

Serious, if a person is a devout fundamentalist in the LDS perspective of the word, are they on the same path as people in the regular LDS faith? I mean, yes, they are apostates in a sense (although they don't see it that way) and some might question them on that -- but doesn't that mean Emma Smith is in their same predicament then?

In a sense this has been debated in a non-Mormon manner for centuries. Some Christians believe Jews will go to Heaven while others say no way. Even Muslims debate on if Jews and Christians can make it to Heaven as they reject the Koran but still believe in the same God of Islam.

Mormon fundamentalists believe the Church has gone astray. They also believe in the same four books of scripture as the LDS Church and in the words of the same prophets (well, at least Smith, Young and Taylor).

Just throwing this out so see what people think although it's all in God's hands anyway.

[miztrniceguy]

oh...just let Him sort it out

or to correctly quote my wife....."just shoot 'em all and let God sort it out"

[Guest just_jason76]

I don't like the term 'Mormon fundamentalists.' First of all, they aren't Mormons at all, referring to members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Second of all, either you're a Mormon or you're not. There is no gray area in the gospel. Either you follow the teachings of the gospel, or you don't. If you follow only certain points of doctrine and reject others, you're as good as not following them at all. These "Mormon fundamentalists" are not Mormons and should not be associated with the terms Mormon or LDS unless they repent and follow the correct gospel.

[MBASS]

Who knows?! Lets let it all get sorted out! I think Emma was just tired! All she went through the poor woman. I dont think she will be withheld from the celestial kingdom because she didnt trek to the west!

[Jason]

I don't like the term 'Mormon fundamentalists.' First of all, they aren't Mormons at all, referring to members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Second of all, either you're a Mormon or you're not. There is no gray area in the gospel. Either you follow the teachings of the gospel, or you don't. If you follow only certain points of doctrine and reject others, you're as good as not following them at all. These "Mormon fundamentalists" are not Mormons and should not be associated with the terms Mormon or LDS unless they repent and follow the correct gospel.

That reminds me of the Protestants who say that Mormons aren't Christians. You don't follow the teachings of Jesus, therefore until you repent and follow the true gospel, you are doomed.

Ignorance is not pretty.

[Dr T]

Good observation Jason. What do you all thing of that assertion?

[Ray]

All people will be rewarded for the good things they do and did, but the only people who will go to "heaven" will be those who do and did what Jesus did... which was everything He knew our Father wanted Him to do, not missing a jot or a tittle, in all of the laws He knew and taught that all of us should do.

And if you don't know what you should do, there is a very easy way to find out... just do what you know God wants you to do and He'll teach you more to do. :)

[Dr T]

Hello Ray,

You say, in order to get into heaven, we must do all that God wants us to do. Sir, that is a tall order. Even at our best, do you really think that we can do ALL that He requires? What about attitude, thoughts, actions, etc.?

Thanks

[Ray]

If you are doing your best at doing God's will, in all of the things you can do, then you are doing God's will in doing those things by doing the best you can do. :)

The first principle of the gospel is Faith in God, which involves gaining and living by God's assurance in all that God wants you to do.

And the second principle of the gospel is Repenting from what God will tell you is "sin", which means to turn away from things you do wrong and to do the best you can do.

And then as you keep doing those things, the best you can do, you'll continue to learn more of what God wants you to do... and not just to do the things that He'll tell you but to help you become a new, and better, You. :)

[jtpma]

I don't know that it matters in the overall point of the question but, since it was specifically addressing the FLDS....Emma Smith was not of that group/organization.

She was a part of the Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints now known as the Community of Christ.

The FLDS are a separate group.

[Jason]

I don't know that it matters in the overall point of the question but, since it was specifically addressing the FLDS....Emma Smith was not of that group/organization.

She was a part of the Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints now known as the Community of Christ.

The FLDS are a separate group.

Nowhere did the OP state the "FLDS" church. He was referring to all Mormon Fundamentalists in a general sense, which does include the FLDS, but is not speaking of them alone.

Furthermore, he was using the idea that Emma was going to hell, but that Joseph was going to "rescue" her to imply that those who some regard as apostates may be saved in spite of themselves.

[jtpma]

My apologies for miss understanding.

[Traveler]

I believe that everyone that wants to live in the Celestial Kingdom - That G-d has a plan to get every single one of them there. It is called the Great Plan of Salvation. And that G-d will not force anyone into the Celestial Kingdom that would rather be somewhere else. Is this a difficult concept?

The Traveler

[JohnTaylor1886]

I don't like the term 'Mormon fundamentalists.' First of all, they aren't Mormons at all, referring to members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Second of all, either you're a Mormon or you're not. There is no gray area in the gospel. Either you follow the teachings of the gospel, or you don't. If you follow only certain points of doctrine and reject others, you're as good as not following them at all. These "Mormon fundamentalists" are not Mormons and should not be associated with the terms Mormon or LDS unless they repent and follow the correct gospel.

Depends on what you define as "Mormon". Read your Church History! "Mormons" were so named because they believed the Book of Mormon to be true, which we most certainly do. The powers that be in Salt Lake City do not have a monopoly on the name "Mormon" or "Latter-Day Saint".

About the teachings of the gospel, do they change from time to time, or are they the same? Think carefully before you answer, because the way that ordinances are practiced now are not practiced the same way as they were in the original days of the Church, and Joseph Smith clearly stated in Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, page 169, that "It signifies then, that the ordiinances must be kept in the very way God has appointed; otherwise their Priesthood will prove a cursing instead of a blessing". What does this mean, You said it best, "either you follow the teachings of the Gospel or you don't". I would wager to say that there have been many changes in ordinances, especially since 1890 and beyond. Changing the ordinances is not following the teachings of the Gospel, since the symbolism of the Gospel is found in each and every ordinance that was revealed.

That means, then, that there is a difference between changeable Church ordinances and eternal, unchangeable Priesthood ordinances, and this because of the way the Church has altered or eliminated certain Priesthood ordinances. There are quite a few ordinances whch have been changed since the Church was first organized in 1830 and these are evident in the history of the Church. Here they are:

Baptism (and rebaptism)

Sacrament

Receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost

Membership in the Church

Ordinations to Church offices

Conferring the Priesthood

Baptism for the dead

The temple endowment

Second Anointing

Ordaining kings and queens

Eternal marriage ceremony

Entering consecration/united order

Washings and anointings

Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pg 158. If there is no change of ordinances, there is no change of Priesthood. Wherever the ordinances of the Gospel are administered, there is the Priesthood."

So now, think for a minute, was there or was their not changes to the ordinances? Yet no, self-respecting, Latter-Day Saint would say for a minute that the priesthood has changed, to which I would ask, "Would you then call Joseph Smith a liar, was he not earnest in what he said?" So, there we have it. No honest Latter-Day Saint would ever say that changes haven't happened, because they have. Then, the words of Joseph Smith take effect and so the priesthood has changed.

Here is an interesting parable, and food for thought. This was contributed by Ogden Kraut, a known Fundamentalist writer.

1. And it came to pass, that on one of those days, as a Fundamentalist Mormon taught the people in the ward, and preached the Gospel, the stake president and the bishop came upon him with the elders.

2. And spake unto him, saying, Tell us, by what authority doest thou these things? or who is it that gave thee this authority?

3. And he answered and said unto them, I will also ask you one thing; and answer me:

4. The teachings of Joseph Smith, were they from heaven, or of men?

5. And they reasoned with themselves, saying, If we shall say, From heaven; he will say, Why then believed ye him not?

6. But if we say, Of men; all the people will hate us; for they be persuaded that Joseph Smith was a prophet.

7. And they answered, that they could not tell whence it was.

8. And the Fundamentalist Mormon said unto them, Neither tell I you by what authority I do these things.

But they cut him off anyway!

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints does not serve as judge and jury of who goes into the celestial kingdom. D&C 132 makes that very clear. The laws pertaining to celestial glory have not changed. Either we follow them all or we fall short. The requirements for celestial glory in 1830 are the same as for 1855, for 1890, for 1912, for 1945, and for 2006. This can be backed up with D&C 130:20-21...you want the blessing, you obey that law. The laws of the Gospel do not change with each generation.

[LionHeart]

I don't like the term 'Mormon fundamentalists.' First of all, they aren't Mormons at all, referring to members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Second of all, either you're a Mormon or you're not. There is no gray area in the gospel. Either you follow the teachings of the gospel, or you don't. If you follow only certain points of doctrine and reject others, you're as good as not following them at all. These "Mormon fundamentalists" are not Mormons and should not be associated with the terms Mormon or LDS unless they repent and follow the correct gospel.

I'm with J.T. on this one. Either you follow the teachings of the gospel, or you don't. If you follow only certain points of doctrine and reject others, you're as good as not following them at all.

With this in mind, then what about the law of consecration? Or plural marriage? You know, up until the early 1900s it was a common understanding among the leaders of the Church that one must live the law of plural marriage in order to attain to the highest degree in the Celestial Kingdom. And only in that highest degree were people allowed to be married. This was what they were referring to when they said "celestial marriage" unlike the modern interpretation; which change was spearheaded by James E. Talmage.

And the law of consecration, also called "The law Of The Celestial Kingdom" (see D&C 105: 3-5) was attempted in the early days of the Church but the people were not willing to live it so it was revoked and replaced by the law of tithing.

D&C 58: 32: I command and men obey not; I revoke and they receive not the blessing.

Now let's consider this law of tithing; everyone understands it as giving ten percent of their income. But can anyone tell me where it came from? Everyone knows that the word of wisdom makes up the whole of D&C 89. But what is not common knowledge is that the law of tithing makes up the whole of D&C 119. Look it up. You will see that there is more to it than just giving ten percent.

The fundamentalists endeavor to live the gospel as taught by Joseph Smith. They did not agree with the changes in doctrine and ordinances that J.T. mentioned so they broke off. I might add that many of the men who started these groups were excommunicated from the Church for attempting to live those higher principles; And I'm not only referring to the law of plural marriage. So someone who says they should repent and follow the correct gospel really needs to look in the mirror.

To deny these principles because the world looks down on them is to deny your God.

[Dr T]

Hello,

I'm sorry for asking the same question of following ALL doctrine. Wouldl this include any type of sin?

Thanks

[LionHeart]

Hello,

I'm sorry for asking the same question of following ALL doctrine. Wouldl this include any type of sin?

Thanks

I'm not quite sure I understand the question, (perhaps I missed something) but if my understanding is correct, then my answer is thus:

Though the times may change, the requirements and principles for gaining salvation in the highest degree will always remain the same. The laws and statutes of God are the same yesterday, today, and forever.

As far as sin is concerned, the same sins that brought damnation in the days of Adam will still bring damnation today.

I hope this answers your question.