The Worst Thing About Being Homosexual

[Guest Taoist_Saint]

Regarding divorce...

31 It hath been said, Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement:

32 But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.

All divorced women are considered adulterers according to Jesus.

I don't agree with that, but we are not supposed to argue with Jesus

Today in America there is an extremely high divorce rate. Much higher than the Homosexual Marriage rate.

What is causing more problems for God's Kingdom?

What is causing more problems for the sacred institution of marriage?

Homosexual Marriage or Divorce?

[Jenda]

Originally posted by Taoist_Saint@Mar 5 2004, 05:08 PM

Regarding divorce...

31 It hath been said, Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement:

32 But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.

All divorced women are considered adulterers according to Jesus.

I don't agree with that, but we are not supposed to argue with Jesus

Today in America there is an extremely high divorce rate. Much higher than the Homosexual Marriage rate.

What is causing more problems for God's Kingdom?

What is causing more problems for the sacred institution of marriage?

Homosexual Marriage or Divorce?

Ya know ..................... the biggest problem I see with this argument is that the person presenting it seems to believe that two wrongs make a right. The question shouldn't be, just because we allow people to get away with the sin of divorce why can't we let people get away with the sin of homosexual marriage, too? The question should be, Why are we allowing people to get away with the sin of divorce? Why aren't we taking a bigger stand against it? Then, the question of two wrongs making a right won't come up?

[Ray]

Heh, did you skip over my last post, Tao? My parents and one of my sisters went through a divorce, so I had already given this issue a lot of thought before I even saw this thread.

[Guest Taoist_Saint]

Originally posted by Jenda@Mar 5 2004, 05:54 PM

The question shouldn't be, just because we allow people to get away with the sin of divorce why can't we let people get away with the sin of homosexual marriage, too? The question should be, Why are we allowing people to get away with the sin of divorce? Why aren't we taking a bigger stand against it? Then, the question of two wrongs making a right won't come up?

Actually, I had a different question in mind...

Is divorce truly a sin?

I don't believe it is.

[Guest Taoist_Saint]

Originally posted by Ray@Mar 5 2004, 05:55 PM

Heh, did you skip over my last post, Tao? My parents and one of my sisters went through a divorce, so I had already given this issue a lot of thought before I even saw this thread.

My parents are divorced, and are living better lives because of it.

I don't think it was a sin.

Jesus says it is.

I read your post, but I'm not sure where you stand on that specific issue?

[sgallan]

Tr -

I missed your post. Thanks.

[Guest bizabra]

Originally posted by Ray@Mar 4 2004, 09:38 AM

I have already shown 3 disadvantages to being homosexual.

Can anyone provide 3 advantages to being homosexual? How about 1?

An increased wardrobe might be 1 advantage, IF your partner’s body happens to be the same size as yours, but members of the opposite sex can wear the same clothes too if their bodies happen to be the same size, so I don’t see that as being an advantage.

I challenge anyone to provide 1 real advantage gained merely by being homosexual that is totally distinct from any advantage you can gain by merely being heterosexual. You can either think in terms of being single, or having a partner. Any takers?

There is no "advantage" one way or the other, the way I see it. 'Cept for the fact that gay people are scorned, mocked, told they are sinners, evil, or worse, and not allowed the social sanction of their most intimate relationships in the form of marriage, of course.

I found out today that a LOT of European countries now sanction gay unions, even Canada! heh heh heh Looks like the USA is behind the curve here.

[Guest bizabra]

Originally posted by Ray+Mar 4 2004, 11:58 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Ray @ Mar 4 2004, 11:58 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--curvette@ Mar 4 2004, 08:55 AM

If they are that way by nature, do you think that they are just going to suddenly become attracted to the opposite sex because it's a better way to live? Maybe you should encourage them to live a celibate life as that is surely the best they can do, but there is no way, NO way their basic biology is going to change.

I will contend that your basing your reasoning on a mighty big IF. I will contend that homosexuality is no more a matter of biology than the urge to engage in any other kind of sexually deviant behavior, or anything else that comes from a “natural” desire. The natural man has been an enemy of God since the beginning of time, and always will be, unless he yields to the promptings of the Holy Ghost.

Doing something just because it feels good, or just because you feel naturally inclined to do it, isn’t a valid excuse for anything. If some scientists could determine that some men naturally have a sexual attraction to young little girls, would you say that those men have the right to do what they want to do? If someone feels they should be able to express their love to their whole family through sexual relations with each and every one of them, by what they say is an expression of love, do you suppose that the rest of us on this world are going to say that they should have the right to do that? Why do we say that a person must be a certain age before they can be married? Why do we say that a person can’t have more than one spouse? Where do we draw the line? By what Man determines should be “legal”?

I woke up this morning to the news on the radio, as I usually do, and I heard some more talk from Multnomah County representatives about the homosexual marriage legislation that was recently passed around here in Portland Oregon. One person stated something like “Once you see the happiness that comes to these people simply by being allowed to marry, you’ll know that there is no harm being done to the world by this.” How preposterous. Just because people appear to be happy when they are allowed to do something doesn’t make what they are doing a good thing. Wickedness never was happiness, and it never will be. If people don’t come to realize the consequences to their actions during this life period, they will come to know it eventually, and there will be nothing but shame and grief to everyone who comes to realize that they have done something wrong.

Consenting ADULTS, Ray, CONSENTING ADULTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Need I say more?

[Guest bizabra]

RAY SAID: I envision heaven as a place where I will see only good things happening, with society in total agreement about what is good. It just wouldn’t be heaven if people had opposing views about things, because there would be no agreement about how things should be. Hopefully someday the Earth will become like that too

BIZ: So, you are saying you envision heaven to be a place where everyone else is in "in total agreemenent" with what YOU believe?

[Guest bizabra]

Originally posted by sgallan@Mar 4 2004, 02:15 PM

"Come hard, or don't come at all"?????? That's an interesting comment. *****

Actually I agree with this one.

HERE HERE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Guest bizabra]

Originally posted by porterrockwell+Mar 4 2004, 02:30 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (porterrockwell @ Mar 4 2004, 02:30 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--sgallan@Mar 4 2004, 03:13 PM

What is sad is you believe there is no harm done in consenting fornication, or consenting homosexuality.*****

Not to me.

****  And you choose to be homosexual, you are not "born" that way. That shpiel doesn't work. *****

Prove it. From what school did you get your advanced degree in biology and genetics.

*** Sorry. Try something new. How bout, it is an abominable sin before God, it halts your eternal progression, and it desicrates the union of souls that was created for the purpose of sanctifying an eternal companionship.*****

Fatih thing. One I do not share so I don't sweat it.

****  There is no good that comes from it, to say otherwise is to rely on an arm of flesh and fall far from the precepts that God has placed before us. Don't give me that whole "I don't believe in your God" line. Guess what you are on a Mormon forum. Not only that, but it doesn't matter what you "think", He is not the "Mormon" God, he is not something Joseph Smith created. He is the Father of all that is Eternal and righteous. He created you, whether you want to believe so or not. You can choose not to accept him, that doesn't change the fact that he is your God. *****

Prove it. If you can I will be compelled. If you cannot, then your God has no more validity than the invisible firebreathing dragon I have living in my garage. Remember what I said about being the anti-missionary? Very few intelligent people with a modicum of education will be swayed by you beating them over the head with your beliefs. Really. It chases away far more people than it convinces. Is this your intent? For example; if you viewpoint was the only avenue I had into the world of the LDS I would go all out in convincing my young-un to stay away. But I know different. I know of many kind and good people in your faith. So if she wants to go..... even at age eight she is welcome too. Oh, here is my kid (the big guy is not me)..... tough but cute....

http://www.amateurwrestlingphotos.com/meng...aber%200088.htm 

****  In that great day when the Lord Jesus Christ returns to gather his people and reign every knee shall bend, and every tongue shall confess. Come hard, or don't come at all. You have a lot to learn, and I truly pity those who challenge(willingly I might add)his wrath and judgement. *****

Are you sure you are LDS? You sound much more like a evangalist Christian. Fire and brimstone and all of that.

The only reason people come down hard on you is because they have tried with unceasing fellowship to share with you the Gospel, and you throw it back in their face. Not only that, but if you are offended or put off by this, or feel that I am brow beating, then maybe it is telling you something. Harshness of word, when spoken in truth is only offensive to that which perpatrates against the Lord's will. I am a very good missionary, however, I have never come across blaitant ignorance, and outright disrespect before. I won't stand by and let you or any other Telestialite dirty the name of God, or our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. How is that "Come hard or don't come at all" phrase interesting? ALso, I can prove it, I went through it, I fought it. i concquered it. I have a testimony that it is not something that is insurmountable. It is immoral and vile and if one truly wishes to follow the will of God he/she will work unceasingly to deny such carnal mindedness to control them.

OOOOHHHH!!!!!! Porter! Me'thinks you protest too much! tee hee

[Guest bizabra]

RAY SAYS: It is also ludicrous to believe that a husband should remain with his wife when his wife is continuing to beat him, or abuse him in any other way. I don’t believe it even entered our Lord’s mind at that time that a wife could be abusing her husband, such as beating him or mentally abusing him, because if He had considered that I’m sure He would have spoken a word against that too

BIZ: This totally cracks me up for some reason!!!!!!!!!!!! Thanks for the giggle, Ray!

[sgallan]

*** I don’t believe it even entered our Lord’s mind at that time that a wife could be abusing her husband, such as beating him or mentally abusing him, because if He had considered that I’m sure He would have spoken a word against that too ****

Gotta hate those short sighted limited Gods.....

[Guest Starsky]

Originally posted by sgallan@Mar 5 2004, 08:47 PM

*** I don’t believe it even entered our Lord’s mind at that time that a wife could be abusing her husband, such as beating him or mentally abusing him, because if He had considered that I’m sure He would have spoken a word against that too ****

Gotta hate those short sighted limited Gods.....

Actually....all of those basis are covered...you just have to read the NT...D&C....Book of Mormon....hmmmmm have I missed anything? NOPE! but you surely have if you don't know that such doctrine is very well covered.

Then you have all the talks by the GAs....of today..

[Guest Starsky]

Originally posted by sgallan@Mar 5 2004, 06:01 AM

And it came to pass, I doth smitest thee, thou lover of sodomites! ****

Cool!

LOL...Finally!

[Guest Starsky]

Originally posted by curvette+Mar 5 2004, 10:31 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (curvette @ Mar 5 2004, 10:31 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Ray@Mar 4 2004, 07:11 PM

I'm the one speaking out about the will of our Father in heaven, and you're the one speaking out about how people should do what makes them happy, so how is it that I am not the one doing the work of my Father?  If I speak evil, you do well to witness against me, but if I do well, why do you persecute me?  Do YOU ever take the time to share the truth with people?

Oh Ray. You really are such a big baby! No one is persecuting you (I'm not a "tar and feather" kinda gal!) I never said people should just "do what makes them happy". Where do you get this stuff? You seem to think I'm in favor of legalizing gay marriage. I've said several times (and you continue to ignore it) I AM NOT! What do you know about what truths I share with other people. How about the truth that we are supposed to: take the great big BEAM out of our own eye before we notice the speck of dust in someone else's. Jesus also said that men could only divorce their wives for fornication and the woman who remarries commits adultery. Do you want to start a crusade against all divorced, remarried women? How many divorced, remarried women do you know? I don't recall a single scripture where Jesus condemns homosexuals, but he says that the divorced, remarried woman commits adultery. That makes an awful lot of adulteresses walking around in your own neighborhood. Some of the most righteous women I know are divorced and remarried, but gee--I guess they are all adulteresses cause the scriptures say so. Maybe you could write a sermon to them on how much better it is to be married (even in a marriage where your husband beats you or molests your children) than it is to be divorced and remarried. Or to all the men who divorce their wives for any reason other than adultery.

The truth I will share with YOU is that it is good to let other people live their lives according to their own conscience as long as it isn't hurting anyone. I don't favor homosexual marriage. I'm not ready to support our society doing this. I'm also not going to nose around in other people's private business when their behavoir is not hurting anyone else.

Actually... the NT was dealing with the Mosaic law....that is something we don't have to deal with today...Though gettin a divorce in the early church was a bigger deal than it is in today's society...but then today's society is so much more messed up....

[Behunin]

Originally posted by Rodney+Mar 5 2004, 07:43 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Rodney @ Mar 5 2004, 07:43 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Behunin@Mar 5 2004, 06:52 AM

Are you a lover of the sodomites?

Define smite.

Define sodomites.

Thats good! You win, your the funniest.

[sgallan]

Actually....all of those basis are covered...you just have to read the NT...*****

Read that one. Best of the bunch.

*** D&C....****

Not bad. Joseph is cool.

*** Book of Mormon....*****

Interesting story. Fairly brutal.

*** hmmmmm have I missed anything? NOPE! but you surely have if you don't know that such doctrine is very well covered. ****

Conveniently so it would seem. Kinda takes a progressive beginning and turns it into another version of fundamentalism. From interesting to predictably boring.

*** Then you have all the talks by the GAs....of today.. ****

Which is the method of taking a progressive beginning and turning it into another version of fundamentalism. Sort of a waste of an innovative and interesting religion in my view. Heck, if I want fundamentalism I'll become a Muslim. They are better at it, and even more dovout....

[sgallan]

but then today's society is so much more messed up.... ****

Yeah slavery, the subjucation of women, low life spans, archaic medicine, and all of the rest was so much the better. You should become Muslim and live in the border region of Afganistan and Pakistan. It would suit your ancient sensibilities. The life there is very similar to your ideal.

[Guest Starsky]

Originally posted by sgallan@Mar 5 2004, 09:19 PM

Actually....all of those basis are covered...you just have to read the NT...*****

Read that one. Best of the bunch.

*** D&C....****

Not bad. Joseph is cool.

*** Book of Mormon....*****

Interesting story. Fairly brutal.

*** hmmmmm have I missed anything? NOPE! but you surely have if you don't know that such doctrine is very well covered. ****

Conveniently so it would seem. Kinda takes a progressive beginning and turns it into another version of fundamentalism. From interesting to predictably boring.

*** Then you have all the talks by the GAs....of today.. ****

Which is the method of taking a progressive beginning and turning it into another version of fundamentalism. Sort of a waste of an innovative and interesting religion in my view. Heck, if I want fundamentalism I'll become a Muslim. They are better at it, and even more dovout....

Valley ball. LOL

Okay....like I have said...I am tired...but I will try to play effectively...

What do you call fundamentalism? Truth? Principles? Or one time or another time applications? Tired people need to know....

[sgallan]

What do you call fundamentalism?****

The absolute insistance that their way is the highway and the rest are doomed and/or should be put away.

*** Truth? ***

Theinsistance of truth to the point of subjucating those who believe differently and/or suggesting they are dammed. When taken to the extreme actually killing them.

*** Principles?****

Principles to the exclusion of EVERYBODY who does not believe EXACTLY as they do.

*** Or one time or another time applications?***

It does seem to trend this way when looked at a historical perspective.

**** Tired people need to know.... *****

I gave a nutshell version. People can (and have) written books on the subject.

In essense you sound exactly like any number of evangelicals, conservative Baptist types, and Muslims, who have dammed me, and my family, and my friends, for any number of reasons. Some of the most strident of your ilk actually wishing our demise. With the really crazy ones following through with it. FWIW, there are no doubt athiests who fit this description as well.....

[Guest Starsky]

What do you call fundamentalism?****

The absolute insistance that their way is the highway and the rest are doomed and/or should be put away.

I call that pig-headed...not fundamentalism.

ditto for your definitions of truth and principle.

I don't damn you and your family...that is totally between you and God. But there is a right and wrong...good and evil and a Holy Ghost to know the difference.

[Guest Starsky]

Got to go pick up my son at the Provo town center...will be back much later tonight...if my husband lets me

[sgallan]

*** I don't damn you and your family...that is totally between you and God. But there is a right and wrong...good and evil and a Holy Ghost to know the difference. ***

Would you like me to search out the posts where you did this very thing? You have in essense said I am in the clutches of Satan. This of course dooms me. No matter what I do of course (save pucker up and kiss your HP's behind). I find this highly ironic in a church which suggests "works" are important. But it's not works. It is just like the other fundamentalists..... you either do what my god says or you are doomed. This you call works. The only difference between you and the other fundamentlists is..... they get annoyed when I call it "works". See people like me confuse you. We cause cognative dissonance. I do good. I am a family man. I contribute to the well being of society. I am honest. I dote on kids. I enjoy life without the greed involved. I experience joy. How can this be? So what do you do? The same as all the rest of the fundamentalists of course. You - in your own way - suggest I am doomed and damned. That I am but a trick of Satan. Because people like me fall outside of the stereotypical paradigm you have been taught your whole lives. I saw your religion, left, and didn't fall apart. So I am a denizon of the adversary..... but do good things as a trick. I have had this discussions many times with many fundamentalists. Though darn few of them have been LDS. So I find this one with you, Porter (if he is real), and Ray, intriguing. But the answers come easy. I've typed these words a least a hundred times to various fundamentalists.

[Guest Starsky]

Originally posted by sgallan@Mar 5 2004, 09:22 PM

but then today's society is so much more messed up.... ****

Yeah slavery, the subjucation of women, low life spans, archaic medicine, and all of the rest was so much the better. You should become Muslim and live in the border region of Afganistan and Pakistan. It would suit your ancient sensibilities. The life there is very similar to your ideal.

You really can sound retarded some times...