DNA and children born to Joseph Smith

[Suzie]

This reminds me of the prosecutor who, when upon discovering that DNA does not match the accused, changes the theory that he must have been an accomplice and even though evidence points to someone else, he just can't let go of his prejudgements.

No. I never denied the fact that DNA evidence proved that Fanny's baby wasn't his, It doesn't prove though that he wasn't intimate with his polygamous wives, researchers agree we just don't know. I don't see it as a problem if he was, as a matter of fact it makes more sense to me. Since you didn't know about his first polygamous wife, you should research more about the rest of them, journals, diaries, etc, very interesting.

Edited July 15, 2011 by Suzie

[bytebear]

No. I never denied the fact that DNA evidence proved that Fanny's baby wasn't his, It doesn't prove though that he wasn't intimate with his polygamous wives, researchers agree we just don't know. I don't see it as a problem if he was, as a matter of fact it makes more sense to me. Since you didn't know about his first polygamous wife, you should research more about the rest of them, journals, diaries, etc, very interesting.

I was only speaking of Alger, and I simply couldn't remember the date of when his "first polygamous wive" was sealed to him. but I do find it extremely odd that a very fertile man with upwards of 30 women of whom he could have bed, that the only one he had a child with was Emma. Add to that the concept that part of the purpose was to produce children. If one believes that Smith indeed received a revelation to practice polygamy, then you have to accept that something was very wrong with the way he practiced it, or his command was different than those that came after him. Young on the other hand, seemed to get it right.

The simple point is, you cannot say that Smith and Young practiced polygamy with the same goals. They simply did not.

[RipplecutBuddha]

I think it's a concrete example of the consequences of casting pearls before swine. The fact remains that polygamous marriages were not only regular occurences in the OT, but they were supported of God. Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob all had more than one wife, and the twelve tribes of Israel came from four women.

I don't think it's a matter of us needing to defend the practice of polygamy. I think it's a matter of realizing how quickly people condemn things before thinking them through, and how hard it is to overcome such a reaction once it reaches multiple generations in age.

The facts remain what they are. If God accepted and encouraged polygamous marriages in the past, there is no rational basis for saying he cannot do so at any time afterwards. Doesn't the bible itself state that God is the same yesterday, today, and forever?

When God commands man, and that man obeys, that man will always be right.

[Suzie]

I was only speaking of Alger, and I simply couldn't remember the date of when his "first polygamous wive" was sealed to him. but I do find it extremely odd that a very fertile man with upwards of 30 women of whom he could have bed, that the only one he had a child with was Emma.

Actually, children.

If one believes that Smith indeed received a revelation to practice polygamy, then you have to accept that something was very wrong with the way he practiced it, or his command was different than those that came after him. Young on the other hand, seemed to get it right.

There is no mystery. Joseph Smith taught the practice to a few members as early as 1831 and practice polygamy in secrecy. He attempted to teach it a little more openly to a few but was utterly rejected to the point he had to tell them to forget all the things he has said. From that point of time, he started teaching the doctrine privately. However, the rumors that he was practicing (along with other members) polygamy grew stronger and led to the Nauvoo Expositor incident.

By the other hand, Brigham Young held a special conference where he openly taught the practice and announced it in 1852.

The simple point is, you cannot say that Smith and Young practiced polygamy with the same goals. They simply did not.

I never said that. It has nothing to do with goals but it's a matter of how the practice was carried out. Smith in secrecy and Young openly.

As I said before, it doesn't really matter to me whether or not Joseph was intimate with any of his polygamous wives or if he had children with them. It doesn't affect me in any way. There still more DNA tests to be carried out. The one I'm particularly interested is Josephine Lyon Fisher, daughter of Sylvia Session. This is a more complicated case due to the nature that she's a female and according to experts you cannot use Y chromosome DNA to test. She's a very strong candidate for the following reasons:

1. Sylvia Session's husband was out in a mission when she was sealed to the Prophet (husband later excommunicated).

2. Josephine was born on February 8th, 1844.

3. Josephine said her mother on deathbed told her (affidavit):

Just prior to my mothers death in 1882 she called me to her bedside and told me that her days were about numbered and before she passed away from mortality she desired to tell me something which she had kept as an entire secret from me and from all others but which she now desired to communicate to me. She then told me that I was the daughter of the Prophet Joseph Smith. (Josephine R Fisher, affidavit, 24 February 1915, LDS Archives.)

There is much more research that needs to be done but definetely what we are hearing (and will hear) about DNA evidence won't be conclusive of whether or not Joseph had children with some of these wives and won't tells us if there was intimacy involved.