Need some opinions please

[Lilac]

Re: my son's baptism

He was all excited and so were we. He connected well with Missionary X (who was a great young man) and we were all ready. He has been asking for a while now but we wanted to make sure he is sure. He sounds sure to me. He sounded sure to Missionary X. He knows all about baptism and its importance etc. (we are a practicing Christian family) Missionaries switched in the last few days and they came over to talk with my son, who is 12. However, because he is so tall, he looks much older but he is 12. People easily think he is 16.

They read him all the questions you would read and adult and he gave very brief answers, not very sure sounding and then finished it off with a lot of "I don't know".

Typical for a 12 year old boy who is put on the spot. Anyone with boys knows the "I don't know" answer or the "yeah, it's OK" answer. You sometimes have to PULL info out of this age group. Especially if they are nervous or uncomfortable. They just sorta zone out on you.

Well, Missionary Y jsut met my son that day and I guess he misunderstood or there was miscommunication because he said "Ok, well, that's great but you need to pray and get an answer".

Uh...

Now I'm confused. My son, on his own, told the missionaries that he wanted to be baptized and expressed a true desire and to my satisfaction, understands baptism and everything you are supposed to know. He siad he feels called to be LDS and loves the church. The missionary X was happy and joyful and said "great, we are going to get you baptized!" A member also said the same thing...great, that's wonderful, we will choose either a Sunday or Saturday". So I got the impression that this was going to happen shortly. I knew he needed another meeting or something but....

Then I had some new missionaries and we got "Ok, well, you need to pray to get an answer?" He is 12.

I just don't know what to say.

When they left, I told my son..."why didn't you tell him everything you were thinking?" and he said "I felt stupid and everyone was looking at me" It was kinda uncomfortable.

Is this what usually happens? With a child? I don't know what else he can say? He said everything to Missionary X but Missionary Y didn't seem to have a clue about any of it. Don't they know that with a child, you are not going to get adult answers and you have to work with him a bit? Isn't it acceptable that he can explain the message of salvation, the significance of baptism, your new life in Christ and desire to be LDS? I mean, that is what he expressed to me and I thought that was all he needed. Isn't that some type of answer or does he need something else? Do 8 year olds say anything different?

I thought I understood and now I'm mixed up. He is upset because he knows that his answers were not so great and he is not getting baptized.

Can someone please tell me what to do? I feel terrible about the whole thing. I'm hoping it was just a mix up... Do I have to call the bishop and sound like a pushy mother "my son had a hard time with the missionary and didn't answer the questions well, I know he is sure and can he try again?" I feel like he was auditioning for a play and needs another try because he stunk and now I'm calling the director to beg for another chance. I certainly understand that we don't want to go around baptizing people who are not sure, insincere etc. I thought my son sounded sincere...I kinda thought that he would be welcomed with his desire to be baptized and now I feel funny about the whole thing.

Thanks for your help...

Edited July 27, 2011 by Lilac

[SQUARE]

Wow. You are a great mother. I thank you for your support to allow your son to follow his desires to be baptised. This tells me that you have a nice family and do not judge others and that you teach your children to respect others beliefs. Thank you..... . As far as the missionary change over. If your son has a desire to be baptised and is going to church, he can talk with the missionaries on sunday, and let them know his desires. He can also talk with the ward mission leader and let him know what happened. It sounds like a mix up. It would not hurt to call the bishop as well if needed. Just understand that the missionaries are responsible for the baptism of your son, not the bishop. The missionaries have a mission president who they report to. And the interview for your son is conducted threw the missionaries. I am sure things will work out. What a great mother your son has. Good luck, and take care. :)

[applepansy]

Re: my son's baptism

He was all excited and so were we. He connected well with Missionary X (who was a great young man) and we were all ready. He has been asking for a while now but we wanted to make sure he is sure. He sounds sure to me. He sounded sure to Missionary X. He knows all about baptism and its importance etc. (we are a practicing Christian family) Missionaries switched in the last few days and they came over to talk with my son, who is 12. However, because he is so tall, he looks much older but he is 12. People easily think he is 16.

They read him all the questions you would read and adult and he gave very brief answers, not very sure sounding and then finished it off with a lot of "I don't know".

Typical for a 12 year old boy who is put on the spot. Anyone with boys knows the "I don't know" answer or the "yeah, it's OK" answer. You sometimes have to PULL info out of this age group. Especially if they are nervous or uncomfortable. They just sorta zone out on you.

Well, Missionary Y jsut met my son that day and I guess he misunderstood or there was miscommunication because he said "Ok, well, that's great but you need to pray and get an answer".

Uh...

Now I'm confused. My son, on his own, told the missionaries that he wanted to be baptized and expressed a true desire and to my satisfaction, understands baptism and everything you are supposed to know. He siad he feels called to be LDS and loves the church. The missionary X was happy and joyful and said "great, we are going to get you baptized!" A member also said the same thing...great, that's wonderful, we will choose either a Sunday or Saturday". So I got the impression that this was going to happen shortly. I knew he needed another meeting or something but....

Then I had some new missionaries and we got "Ok, well, you need to pray to get an answer?" He is 12.

I just don't know what to say.

When they left, I told my son..."why didn't you tell him everything you were thinking?" and he said "I felt stupid and everyone was looking at me" It was kinda uncomfortable.

Is this what usually happens? With a child? I don't know what else he can say? He said everything to Missionary X but Missionary Y didn't seem to have a clue about any of it. Don't they know that with a child, you are not going to get adult answers and you have to work with him a bit? Isn't it acceptable that he can explain the message of salvation, the significance of baptism, your new life in Christ and desire to be LDS? I mean, that is what he expressed to me and I thought that was all he needed. Isn't that some type of answer or does he need something else? Do 8 year olds say anything different?

I thought I understood and now I'm mixed up. He is upset because he knows that his answers were not so great and he is not getting baptized.

Can someone please tell me what to do? I feel terrible about the whole thing. I'm hoping it was just a mix up... Do I have to call the bishop and sound like a pushy mother "my son had a hard time with the missionary and didn't answer the questions well, I know he is sure and can he try again?" I feel like he was auditioning for a play and needs another try because he stunk and now I'm calling the director to beg for another chance. I certainly understand that we don't want to go around baptizing people who are not sure, insincere etc. I thought my son sounded sincere...I kinda thought that he would be welcomed with his desire to be baptized and now I feel funny about the whole thing.

Thanks for your help...

You won't sound like a pushy mother. You'll sound like a mother who is concerned for the welfare of her son.

After a child turns 9 then their baptism must go through the missionaries. Missionaries are young men with little life experience and a whole lot of faith and commitment to what they are there to do. I'm sure the second missionary doing the interview just wanted to make sure your son understood. I have had three 12yo boys. I love that age group but they can be a bit shy when answering questions about their spiritual feelings.

Don't get too upset. Just call the Bishop or WML and ask where you go from here. When the Ward Mission Leader or Bishop hear your story they will get involved. Its still up to the missionaries to do the baptism interview and do the baptism, but the WML is a great resource for them.

When my husband was WML we had some issues with the missionaries not quite getting things done in a user-friendly way. When I called and talked with the Mission President to clarify protocol he told me that is was perfectly appropriate for the WML to help the missionaries learn how to handle different circumstances.

I wish you and your son all the best. Sometimes the most important things we do in life get a little difficult before completion because Satan doesn't want us to succeed.

[Lilac]

Thank you for understanding 12 year old boys. My son is a chatterbox when you know him but with a new missionary? Uh...not so much. You can easily see how things got off track.

I totally agree, these missionaries are young men who are still learning and growing (aren't we all?) and I don't think he realized that asking my son if he was involved in an abortion or homosexual activity might make him very uncomfortable. It was down hill from there...mix in the "I don't know" 12 year old and you have a very quiet interview. I guess from the missionary's point of view, he sounded unsure but in reality, my son is quite sure and can explain a great deal about Christianity, baptism etc. The missionary was just not mature/experienced enough to pull it out. It's Ok. Things happen.

Ok, I'll follow up with the ward mission leader, who I know pretty well and is a nice guy.

I feel better after reading your posts. It was probably just poor communication all around.

Of course, any other opinions are welcome. Thanks.

[LittleWyvern]

Giving baptismal interviews are about as awkward as receiving them. I had to do a few on my mission, one to a 10 year old boy. In Preach My Gospel (the missionary handbook) it says to adapt the questions to the age and maturity of the person you are interviewing, so missionaries aren't really required to ask every question or ask the questions the exact way every time (for the 10 year old boy I interviews I just skipped the homosexuality question. The missionaries who were teaching him had asked him that question before and not knowing what it was replied "yes!" enthusiastically). The ward mission leader will probably be able to coordinate with the mission president, or you could also request to have somebody else interview him. If you do another interview, I'd prep whoever is interviewing him beforehand about the situation, it would help him adapt the question as Preach My Gospel suggests. :)

[bytebear]

Was the interview in front of a big group? That sounds odd. I think they should be more one on one, so there isn't pressure to answer correctly. This isn't a DMV test where you have to remember the details or get the facts exactly right.

I also think the interviewer can be just as nervous, so maybe it would be better to start out with a casual discussion for a while to talk about the church, his experiences, how he feels about things, in a less of an interview atmosphere (but where the answers are there). Then the interview questions come naturally.

How do you feel about church?

Do you like Sunday School?

Are you prepared to attend church every week? <-- interview question.

Have the missionaries talked to you about the word of wisdom?

What do you think about smoking and drinking?

Are you following the word of wisdom? <-- interview question

etc.

[ztodd]

I do not doubt that your son is sincere in his desire. I didn't see where you addressed the missionary's conern though- has your son learned to pray and ask Heavenly Father, and how to listen for the Holy Ghost to answer? You don't have to answer me or even reply to my post if you don't want to, but I just wanted to express that might be a valid concern.

It's very important for new converts to have had experience with prayer and listening for the promptings of the Holy Ghost. That doesn't mean He needs to hear an audible voice or have an extraordinary spiritual experience- if it's nothing more than just a peaceable feeling that he has that makes him feel that it's right, that is definitely a way the Holy Spirit communicates, and a very acceptable answer to prayer.

[Lilac]

Oh yeah, my son said that he prays all the time and prayed whether to get baptized and a whole list of other things.

He didn't tell the missionary that though... He talks to me about it though.

The people there were the 2 missionaries, my husband, my other son, a church member and me.

I got the impression that is wasn't a "formal" interview but rather an interview to see if he can do the "formal interview" and as I posted, it really did not go well.

Unfortunately, this is turning into an issue. My husband is investigating with me and is a bit more hesitant than I am and he was not very happy with the whole thing. He unloaded on me last night that he didn't like the "abortion and homosexuality" questions for a 12 year old boy and he didn't like how my son didn't seem to "pass", like he wasn't good enough. Now I have this to deal with. It was so simple and somehow, we got off track.

I said to my husband "we can fix this easily enough, it's just a miscommunication" and he said " maybe God is telling us that this is NOT the church to join if we are having this much confusion over a baptism."

Oh, well, I guess I will see how it goes and I'll keep you updated. I decided I'm going to have to let this drop for a while. I'm feeling kinda discouraged myself.

Thanks for the support.

Edited July 28, 2011 by Lilac

[beefche]

Can I make a suggestion? Why is it God telling you not to get baptized? Why not the enemy to God? If this is the true church with the right authority, why not assume that the enemy to God wants to do all he can to cause dissension, discouragement, and despair?

I do hope you talk to someone--the ward mission leader, the bishop, or the other missionary. I, too, this can be overcome easily, but only if you (the plural) don't allow it to be bigger than it has to be.

[Lilac]

Beefche,

I have thought of that also. Maybe it is the opposite? Satan is interfering for a reason. Sometimes it's really hard to discern the difference. Which is why Satan uses that trick of deception.

Why did I think of it that maybe this is not the right church to join? Because I always assume the worst. That is me! I'm in the pessimist club! I'm always waiting for the other shoe to drop.

Seriously, we have been to so many churches and I am always praying "send me a sign if this is where You want us to be. Let me know. Show me the way". Etc. So the thought did come into my husband's mind.

Your point is a good one though.

[beefche]

It is difficult to determine. I will say, though, that the Lord will not force you to do anything. He will gently persuade but He will not cause distress or depression. What I have learned for myself is that when the Lord is gently persuading me or leading me away from something potentially bad, that I normally get an unsettling feeling. Many people have called this a "gut instinct". It's a little different than the feeling I get if I were going to walk down a dark alley wearing a huge diamond necklace. It's more of a feeling that I feel in my head and heart.

Not sure if that helps or not. And I don't mean to imply that you or your husband are wrong to be concerned. This is your son and you have all rights and privileges to receive inspiration to help guide him. But, it sounds to me that your son has received a testimony of the church and has, unfortunately, encountered a mortal person who has used not so good judgment and has erred. What a great opportunity for your son to learn to forgive, be tolerant and learn to look to God rather than man as a source of inspiration. It's a great lesson the Lord has allowed to happen to help him on his path to manhood and as a Saint of God.

[Lilac]

Maybe this happened for a reason. I posted a thread on baptism questions and maybe we need to rethink baptism. Or at least have deeper discussions on it. I didn't know some of the LDS process of baptism; I thought I did but it appears I didn't it.

Thanks for your posts. I appreciate them.