Temple vs. Civil Marriage

[Guest mormonmusic]

I could agree that a time-only marriage might be the best alternative available, certainly better than continuing to fornicate. But to suggest that a time-only marriage somehow avoids "the up-front risks" of eternal marriage seems not merely a short-sighted attitude, but a dangerous one.

To the person who is comfortable with the risks that a high-stakes, up front temple marriage presents, and to the person who has undeniable revelation that is the right thing -- I support them whole heartedly. I wouldn't discourage anyone who feels this is the right path for them.

But to agree with your assertion wholeheartedly would be to deny my life's experience, and I am simply not prepared to do that.

I also wonder how the OP's in these posts feel about their own decisions to be married civilly first, or temple first given the sudden and strange behavior of their new spouses?

http://www.lds.net/forums/marriage-relationship-advice/43647-he-wants-divorce-its-over-how-do-i-save.html

And if you read 1/2 to 3/4 of this short post withint the same thread, another person's similar experience:

http://www.lds.net/forums/marriage-relationship-advice/43647-he-wants-divorce-its-over-how-do-i-save.html#post635876

and here is another:

http://www.lds.net/forums/marriage-relationship-advice/43647-he-wants-divorce-its-over-how-do-i-save-5.html#post637600

Guy in my close circle of friends found his wife turned into a totally different person the night of his temple wedding. I had the same experience and have spent a lot of effort and emotional turmoil trying to live with it all aftewards. Very hard.

I feel very strongly about this, so for the sake of my own inner peace, I won't be entertaining a sparring match on this one. I'm pretty sure we will not agree. You tend to take the hard right line on a lot of these issues, and my perspective, which was similar to yours for for much of my life, has taken a much different turn given my life's experiences. Not that I'm necessarily any more enlightened -- or that you are either.

We see through a glass, darkly -- as a wise man once said.

Edited December 5, 2011 by mormonmusic

[Martain]

Dear Moocow,

Please please please don't get married in the temple unless you are worthy to do so.

You're right that you could choose a civil marriage with the desire to get sealed when you're both worhy.

The only concern I have in regards to taking such a course is whether or not it will happen.

If I was in your position I would want assurance from the Lord that the path I was about to persue would indeed lead me to the temple. If I knew that it would not, then I'm sorry but the Lord would come first in my life.

That's my advice anyways, seek council from the Lord.

Now there was a period in my life where because of unresolved sin I was unable to hear answers from the Lord.

I hope you are not in such straights because if you are it just makes things harder.

If so please continue in the repentance process until you are and then seek revelation.

Remember that there are worthy priesthood holders in your life who are there to assist you. You can always ask for a blessing of guidance from one of them.

[splash]

Greetings Moocoow,

I hope my words will offer you some help : )

First off, have you confessed to and talked with your bishop? One church member may say do this, another member may say do that. What your bishop says is what REALLY matters! He will give you advice, judge your standing in the church and help you to be temple worthy again. Sexual sins are serious but they can be forgiven. Your bishop (and possibly stake president) will set the steps for your repentance process. Repentance is a very personal and private thing (especially for serious sins in my opinion). It is only between you, your boyfriend/fiance, proper priesthood authority and the Lord.

I know a couple that had pre-marital sex, confessed, the bishop talked to the stake president and they did not have to wait a year or get married civily before their temple sealing. They are happily married, years later. I have heard of other people that had pre-marital sex and did not have to wait a year or get marry civily first either.

"I, the Lord, forgive sins, and am merciful unto those who confess their sins with humble hearts"(D&C 61:2).

As far as those who marry civily first- I don't know the reasons. I don't want to judge them. People may assume but they don't know unless you tell them.

Edited January 1, 2012 by Pegasus_
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[splash]

~

EDIT: If people do choose to be sealed without taking care of sexual sins or other serious sins, they can still repent. I sincerely apologize for not being clear. I am simply stating it is possible to repent afterwards. Not easy to do so, but possible.

Edited January 1, 2012 by Pegasus_

[beefche]

So, let me see if I understand you correctly, Pegasus. An LDS member, who at least has a basic understanding of how sacred and holy a temple is, would be ok to lie, if they choose, to get into the temple as long as they repent later. Am I understanding you correctly?

[Guest gopecon]

Pegasus, I read your post and while they may be technically correct (with a couple rare exceptions, repentance is always available), I can't imagine a priesthood leader ever telling someone to sow their oats now, go to the temple, and repent. Sinning now and planning to repent later is a terrible idea. Willful, premeditated sin is NOT easy to repent of. Its far better to endure the embarrassment of a civil marriage than to lie to God (or His representatives) and go to the temple dishonestly and unworthily.

[splash]

No, beefche, you do not understand me correctly. I apologize for being unclear. gopecon-I can't image a priesthood leader telling members to sin, go to the temple and repent later either!

First case: If a couple does have pre-marital sex and resloves the matter with proper priesthood authority before they are sealed then they are worthy to be sealed. That is up to the bishop and stake president to judge the situation, the couples attitude, receive revelation for that couple, set the steps for repentance. A couple may have to wait a certain amount of months or a year or they may be able to be sealed when they had planned to be. A couple does have to wait a year to be sealed if they are recent converts or were married civily. Otherwise, the time period before temple sealing (if any) after pre-marital sex is up to priesthood leaders.

A previous BYU young single adult bishop I talked to about this stated the same thing. He also referred to the church handbook 1 for bishops and stake presidents. He stated in the handbook there is not a specific waiting period for church members (other than recent converts or if married civily) after pre-marital sex before temple sealings.

It is not our place to judge priesthood leaders decisions. Priesthood leaders are called of God and receive inspiration from him. I know that Bishops and Stake Presidents are men called of God and fulfill their callings while following the spirit's promptings. If God prompts a bishop to do this or that then it is obviously correct. God sees the big picture and prompts his leaders accordingly.

Second case: If a couple does not confess and resolve pre-marital sex with priesthood authority before temple marriage then no, they are not worthy. I know how sacred temples are and do not enourage anyone to go to the temple unworthily. It would be far better to attend the temple worthily in the first place. I bet it would save so much heartache, shame, depression, guilt, regret. Not to mention loss of the spirit.

I did go a bit off topic for this thread. I am trying to offer help for those who may have already gone to the temple un-worthily and may come across reading this thread. I want to remind those who may be in the depths of despair and guilt that there is hope. The atonement is that hope. I am trying to remind everyone that Christ died for small and big sins. Serious sins (with a few exemptions as gopecon said) are not exempt from the atonement. We all make mistakes in this life. Many people, yes even church members that have been raised in the church, make serious sins. We can repent and get back on the right track! It may not be easy but it is not impossible. Repentance is real if we do what is required, have a broken heart and contrite spirit. With the help from priesthood leaders someone could become temple worthy again.

"He who has repented of his sins, the same is forgiven, and I, the Lord, remember them no more" (D&C 58:42).

Edited January 1, 2012 by Pegasus_
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[moocow]

Thank you guys for your encouragement. I will not get married in the temple unworthily. We're still dating and we're not ready to take the next step of getting married, but he is opened up a lot to the idea of a civil marriage. At first he said we should try repenting for the temple, but I think he sees now that we're not strong enough to do that at this point. It would be better to just get married civilly. I am not afraid of what people will think, because honestly most of his friends already know about us. It would show them that sinning does come with consequences and this is just one of them. I don't know, we'll see what happens. Personal revelation is pretty much non-existent right now, but I have been doing a lot of thinking anyway about this whole mess.

[Backroads]

moocow, I wish you all the best!

[Backroads]

I don't think Pegagus is saying it's okay to go to the temple unworthily.

Only that a couple that does something that stupid is not outside the realm of the possibility of repentance.

Doesn't mean it's a good idea--and that going to the temple with that plan will only make repentance more difficult.

[splash]

I don't think Pegagus is saying it's okay to go to the temple unworthily.

Only that a couple that does something that stupid is not outside the realm of the possibility of repentance.

Doesn't mean it's a good idea--and that going to the temple with that plan will only make repentance more difficult.

Yep, that is what I am saying! I just did not say it quite right, was un-clear and I deeply apologize! Yay for being able to edit! :)

Good luck to you Moocow!! And yes, you may be able to repent before your temple marriage (if you become engaged) but the will-power to really stop having sex is imperative. I do not know nor do I want to know how many times you have had pre-marital sex (that is your personal and private business and noone else's). After several times of pre-marital sex I speculate repenting before the temple marriage becomes unlikely.

Edited January 4, 2012 by Pegasus_
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[moocow]

Yes, that's how I feel too. I have heard that bishops council couples to just get married civilly in a lot of cases where they are having trouble. At some point, just getting married is the goal. That's where I'm at. But I'm not giving up. I will still get sealed in the temple eventually. That is my ultimate goal.

[splash]

While I'm glad this story has a happy ending, it's a prime example of why you must be honest. Karma is a bugger and eventually things will catch up with you. I theorize the couple in Spartan's story were more concerned with the initial shame and awkwardness of cancelling the sealing the day of. Oh, how disappointed and shocked and horrified everyone would be! better save face. Well, apparently everything came to light anyway, with that nasty excommunication slapped on top.

I just wanted to point out Spartan edited his post and that couple was not excommunicated, they were disfellowshipped.

Excommunication seems much rarer than what it used to be. A friend of mine who was a previous Young Single Adult Bishop mentioned something to me that made sense along with the experiences of those I know well. He stated years ago the Church was too quick to disfellowship and excommunicate young adults and few made it back to the Church. A shift took place of "saving souls" who are sincerely trying to do the right thing and repent.

Edited January 4, 2012 by Pegasus_