Traveler Posted November 14, 2011 Report Share Posted November 14, 2011 ...I agree that Yeshua (his name never really was Jesus) is the perfect example. I am not sure why you are saying this. The translation from Hebrew to Greek to English is Jesus. The translation directly from Hebrew to English is Joshua. It is not uncommon in another country to introduce yourself by your name in the native tongue. Also I believe you will find that the Apostles (who are called as witnesses of Christ) refer to the Messiah (including in his name when prayers are given) as Jesus Christ - also the official name of the church to which you and I belong.I suggest you be very careful in suggesting what name we all should be using in addressing him or the Father or anything else in his name.The Traveler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peteolcott Posted November 15, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 15, 2011 Hey Pete, I like the thought, and I kinda agree. I might word it slightly different though. I think the ultimate purpose of the gods' plan is for one to find PEACE.Peace. Joy. Yeah, I get what you are saying.Since the ultimate peace would be non-existence, maybe going for maximum joy might be better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peteolcott Posted November 15, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 15, 2011 I am not sure why you are saying this. The translation from Hebrew to Greek to English is Jesus. The translation directly from Hebrew to English is Joshua.If anyone called me Pedro I would not know that they are talking to me because Pedro is not my name. My name is Peter. Because of this it would seem that the translation of any proper name would always be incorrect. I suggest you be very careful in suggesting what name we all should be using in addressing him or the Father or anything else in his name.I am very careful, that is why I use Yeshua instead of Jesus. It might be possible that any prayer in the name of "Jesus" is ineffective because that was not exactly and precisely his name. I am estimating that it probaby does not make any difference, yet I choose to err on the side of precise accuracy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
volgadon Posted November 15, 2011 Report Share Posted November 15, 2011 (edited) If anyone called me Pedro I would not know that they are talking to me because Pedro is not my name. My name is Peter. Because of this it would seem that the translation of any proper name would always be incorrect.I call my friend Mi-cha-el all the time instead of saying My-kol and I have several other friends that go by Serge/Sergey and Helen/Yelena. I'm perfectly happy to go by Alain.I am very careful, that is why I use Yeshua instead of Jesus. It might be possible that any prayer in the name of "Jesus" is ineffective because that was not exactly and precisely his name. I am estimating that it probaby does not make any difference, yet I choose to err on the side of precise accuracy.How would you pronounce Yeshua in a precise Galilean Hebrew dialect of the 1st c. AD? Edited November 15, 2011 by volgadon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peteolcott Posted November 15, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 15, 2011 How would you pronounce Yeshua in a precise Galilean Hebrew dialect of the 1st c. AD?I think that the English transliteration of Yeshua may be as close as we can get. I could be wrong on this. In any case it does seem that "Yeshua" is at least more correct than "Jesus". Likewise with YHWH and Jehovah. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
volgadon Posted November 15, 2011 Report Share Posted November 15, 2011 I think that the English transliteration of Yeshua may be as close as we can get. I could be wrong on this. In any case it does seem that "Yeshua" is at least more correct than "Jesus". Likewise with YHWH and Jehovah.Ah, but you weren't talking about "as close as we can get" were you.You were talking about "exactly and precisely."Which is exact and precise enough in order to get prayers answered? Is the accent on milra or is it milel? How guttural does the ayin have to be? What about the deaf, dumb and blind kid who doesn't know Jesus's name at all?I've had just as many prayers answered in the name of Jeus Christ, amen and vo imya Iisusa Khrista, amin, as I have beshem Yeshua haMashiah, amen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peteolcott Posted November 15, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 15, 2011 Ah, but you weren't talking about "as close as we can get" were you. You were talking about "exactly and precisely."As far as I know "Yeshua" is exactly and precisely the correct transliteration of his name. Because I have a problem with insufficent humility, I allowed for the possibility that I may be less than 100% correct. Which is exact and precise enough in order to get prayers answered? Is the accent on milra or is it milel? How guttural does the ayin have to be? What about the deaf, dumb and blind kid who doesn't know Jesus's name at all?I've had just as many prayers answered in the name of Jeus Christ, amen and vo imya Iisusa Khrista, amin, as I have beshem Yeshua haMashiah, amen.Like I also said, it probably does not make a difference if we call him Jesus or Yeshua. It might possibly make a difference, but it probably does not. There is at least one chance in infinity that all the prayers in the name of Jesus are ineffective because that was not his name. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dravin Posted November 15, 2011 Report Share Posted November 15, 2011 (edited) As far as I know "Yeshua" is exactly and precisely the correct transliteration of his name.You do realize that Jesus comes from the transliteration of the Hebrew into Greek right? You're basically proposing that Jesus will answer to his name transliterated into English from Hebrew but not from the Hebrew to the Greek to the English. Tell me, do Greeks have to use the English transliteration or can they use the Greek? And why one over the other? Are languages which lack the sounds or characters to 'precisely' transliterate his name barred from communicating with him and force to learn a language that can? Edited November 15, 2011 by Dravin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peteolcott Posted November 16, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 16, 2011 You do realize that Jesus comes from the transliteration of the Hebrew into Greek right? You're basically proposing that Jesus will answer to his name transliterated into English from Hebrew but not from the Hebrew to the Greek to the English. Tell me, do Greeks have to use the English transliteration or can they use the Greek? And why one over the other? Are languages which lack the sounds or characters to 'precisely' transliterate his name barred from communicating with him and force to learn a language that can?What I am saying is that "Yeshua" is what his actual name sounds like when you pronounce it. If it was spelled in the original language it would still sound the same when pronounced. "Jesus" was never his actual name. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dravin Posted November 16, 2011 Report Share Posted November 16, 2011 (edited) What I am saying is that "Yeshua" is what his actual name sounds like when you pronounce it. If it was spelled in the original language it would still sound the same when pronounced. "Jesus" was never his actual name.His name wasn't Yeshua it was יְהוֹשֻׁעַ . Yeshua (and it's missing some accents) is an approximation, it's just closer than Jesus but it's ultimately an approximation. Putting that all aside though considering he's identified himself by the name/title Jesus Christ he clearly identifies with it.Behold, I am Jesus Christ, and I come quickly. Even so. Amen.Also since you didn't answer the question I'll ask it again; is someone who speaks a language incapable of properly (however close one wants to consider properly) replicating the speech patterns required to say יְהוֹשֻׁעַ simply doomed to be unable to pray in the name of Christ unless they learn to pronounce the 'proper' speech patterns? Edited November 16, 2011 by Dravin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
volgadon Posted November 16, 2011 Report Share Posted November 16, 2011 As far as I know "Yeshua" is exactly and precisely the correct transliteration of his name. Because I have a problem with insufficent humility, I allowed for the possibility that I may be less than 100% correct. If we are talking about transliteration (which has little to do with pronounciation) then yours is far from being "exactly and precisely the correct transliteration of his name."Yšwʻ would be at least one example of a transliteration far more precise and exact than your own.Like I also said, it probably does not make a difference if we call him Jesus or Yeshua. It might possibly make a difference, but it probably does not. There is at least one chance in infinity that all the prayers in the name of Jesus are ineffective because that was not his name.I highly suspect that your American pronounciation is all that closer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
volgadon Posted November 16, 2011 Report Share Posted November 16, 2011 What I am saying is that "Yeshua" is what his actual name sounds like when you pronounce it.Here are several factors right off the bat which would change pronounciation.Where is the stress laid?How long is the "e"?How guttural is the "a'?How much air is in the "sh"?Is the "ua" a dipthong? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justice Posted November 16, 2011 Report Share Posted November 16, 2011 (edited) I think you guys have done an excellent job of showing how trapped we can get if we get too hung up in the details. To me, it's far more important that we love Him and serve Him by loving our neighbors, than it is for us to concern ourselves with whether we're pronouncing His name right. Wouldn't it be ironic if when we meet Him in the spirit world we fall at His feet and speak His name in Hebrew perfectly, because we've studied it our whole life just to be able to say it to Him with respect, and He replied with a smile, "Jesus will do just fine." Then He starts to ask you about all the sick, hungry, and poor people you ever met your life, and He mentions each by name... Maybe not ironic, but a much more probable scenario than Him not answering prayers because you can't pronounce His name perfectly in Hebrew. C'mon Pete, let's see something with substance and meaning... something that would actually be worth the time to a perfect, divine Being who willingly paid the price for your sins (including the lesser crime of mispronouncing His name). Edited November 16, 2011 by Justice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
volgadon Posted November 16, 2011 Report Share Posted November 16, 2011 Why don't we imagine the following dialogue. God: What are you doing? William Williams: I'm praying for my children. They are very ill. G: Commendable. Who is it that you are praying to? WW: I'm praying to the Son of God. G: I am the son of God. WW: The one written about in the four Gospels. G: Ah, those ones. WW: He was born in Bethlehem, was baptised in the Jordan river, turned water to wine at Cana and walked on the water of the Sea of Galilee. G: Been there, done that, and never fell in. WW: He was crucified on Golgotha, laid in an empty tomb and arose from the dead on the 3rd day. Because of this all who believe on his name will be saved. G: indeed they will! WW: His name is Jesus Christ. G: Oh, is it really? Uh-oh. You must be thinking of someone else entirely. I'm afraid I won't be able to answer that prayer. My name, you see, is Yšwʻ Hʼmšyḥ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sister_in_faith Posted November 16, 2011 Report Share Posted November 16, 2011 I tend to pray long prayers. I ramble, and think, and talk, and cry, and talk, and because of my brain tumor there are times when I'll get distracted in the middle of a prayer, and forget to close with, "In the name of Jesus Christ, amen." I struggled with this for a while, wondering what happens to those prayers, and my bishop assured me that Heavenly Father heard them and knows my heart, and that, while it is good to close them, it is not always necessary. So, my point is, that Heavenly Father hears and honors all our prayers, even if we don't say his son's name correctly, or at all! I personally think that there is 0% chance that Heavenly Father doesn't answer/hear/honor our prayers if we pray them in Jesus' name. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peteolcott Posted November 16, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 16, 2011 I personally think that there is 0% chance that Heavenly Father doesn't answer/hear/honor our prayers if we pray them in Jesus' name.How about I make things really simple and just agree with that. My human nature tends to get off track pursuing tedious minutiae, sorry about that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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