Evidence Of Mormonism

[Ray]

Have you decided to stay after school, Doc?

Okay. I'll help you out if I can. :)

Hello Ray,

Maybe we can start by defining terms. What do you take “blasphemy” to mean?

Okay, by using the thesaurus in ‘Word’, I’ve come up with some other words.

I first changed the word “blasphemy” to “blaspheme”, and came up with “curse” and “swear”, and I then chose the word “swear” to find some other words, and these are the words that I found:

vow, pledge, promise, give your word, avow, affirm, guarantee

Is that enough to help you know what it means now???

Heh, just in case it isn’t, I’ll say that to blaspheme against the Holy Ghost means to affirm, either to yourself or someone else, [anything] which is against the Holy Ghost, or against what the Holy Ghost declares to be true... for instance, to speak in opposition to Him or what He knows is true, or to say what is true isn’t true.

Do you know HOW to know who the Holy Ghost is, or what He declares to be true?

Do you know HOW to know what He’ll tell you is true???

Do you know WHO you’d be listening to???

Good. Then ask God. Why ask ME for MY thoughts about anything???

Do you just mainly want to know ME, or God???

Why believe what ANYONE tells you is true???

And btw, it doesn't have to be "verbal". I know how He feels without Him saying a word.

And I also know how to tell which thoughts are truly His when I see what is written in words.

[Dr T]

Hi Ray,

I'm sorry, I thought I asked you for a definition not a synonym. I forgot who I was asking. If you want to use a dictionary, may be can talk. It might help you.

Thanks,

Dr. T

[Ray]

Heh, you're funny, Doc. I didn't know that you were so funny.

I almost took you seriously, but then I thought, No, I know that he knows how to read.

Just give me some more time to "sense" your humor, and then maybe I'll laugh with you then. :)

...Is that enough to help you know what it means now???

Heh, just in case it isn’t, I’ll say that to blaspheme against the Holy Ghost means to affirm, either to yourself or someone else, [anything] which is against the Holy Ghost, or against what the Holy Ghost declares to be true... for instance, to speak in opposition to Him or what He knows is true, or to say what is true isn’t true.

[Nicole]

am just poping in to say that I Got the Doctrine from Doctrine and covenants student manual page no

158 -166 sction 76

if u dont have the book then look it up at http://www.ldsces.org/inst_manuals/d_cInst.../start_here.pdf

and i highly rececmend you to read the The Miracle of Forgiveness by Spencer w kimball

and this subject read Chapter 9 page 117 its a wonderful book it goes into deep details of everything i mean everything u need to know!!

Love Nicole

[Nicole]

BIBLE DICTIONARY http://scriptures.lds.org/en/bd/b/62

Blasphemy

Generally denotes contemptuous speech concerning God, or concerning something that stands in a sacred relation toward God, such as his temple, his law, or his prophet. Our Lord was on several different occasions charged by the Jews with speaking blasphemy, because he claimed the right to forgive sins (Matt. 9: 3; Luke 5: 21), because he called himself Son of God (John 10: 22-36), and because he said they would see him “sitting at the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven” (Matt. 26: 64-65). These charges would have been true if he had not actually been all that he said he was. The charge brought against him by the false witnesses at the trial before the Sanhedrin (Matt. 26: 59-61; John 19: 7) was one of blasphemy against God’s temple. Our Lord’s apostles, on the other hand, regarded the behavior of the Jews toward him and toward themselves as blasphemy (Matt. 27: 39; Luke 22: 65; Luke 23: 39; Acts 13: 45; Acts 18: 6; Acts 26: 11). A false accusation of blasphemy was also brought against Naboth (1 Kgs. 21: 9-13), and against Stephen (Acts 6: 11).

The punishment for willful and intentional blasphemy was death by stoning (Lev. 24: 11-16; cf. John 10: 31-33; Acts 7: 58). Blasphemy against the Holy Ghost, which is willfully denying Christ after having received a perfect knowledge of him from the Holy Ghost, is the unforgivable sin (Matt. 12: 31-32; Mark 3: 28-29; D&C 132: 27).

References

Lev. 24: 11-16

11 And the Israelitish woman’s son ablasphemed the name of the LORD, and cursed. And they brought him unto Moses: (and his mother’s name was Shelomith, the daughter of Dibri, of the tribe of Dan:)

12 And they put him ain ward, that the bmind of the LORD might be shewed them.

13 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,

14 Bring forth him that hath cursed without the camp; and let all that heard him lay their hands upon his head, and let all the congregation stone him.

15 And thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel, saying, Whosoever acurseth his God shall bear his sin.

16 And he that ablasphemeth the name of the LORD, he shall surely be put to death, and all the congregation shall certainly stone him: as well the stranger, as he that is born in the land, when he blasphemeth the name of the Lord, shall be put to death.

1 Kgs. 21: 9-13

9 And she wrote in the letters, saying, Proclaim a afast, and set Naboth on high among the people:

10 And set two men, sons of Belial, before him, to bear witness aagainst him, saying, Thou didst bblaspheme God and the king. And then carry him out, and stone him, that he may die.

11 And the men of his city, even the elders and the nobles who were the inhabitants in his city, did as Jezebel had sent unto them, and as it was written in the letters which she had sent unto them.

12 They proclaimed a fast, and set Naboth on high among the people.

13 And there came in two men, children of Belial, and sat before him: and the men of Belial witnessed against him, even against Naboth, in the presence of the people, saying, Naboth did blaspheme God and the king. Then they carried him forth out of the city, and stoned him with stones, that he died.

Matt. 9: 3

3 And, behold, certain of the scribes said within themselves, This man blasphemeth.

Matt. 12: 31-32

31 ¶ Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven aunto men: but the bblasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall cnot be forgiven unto men.

32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be aforgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

Matt. 26: 59-61, 64-65

59 Now the chief priests, and elders, and all the council, sought false awitness against Jesus, bto put him to death;

60 But found none: yea, though many false witnesses came, yet found they none. At the last came two false awitnesses,

61 And said, This fellow said, I am able to destroy the atemple of God, and to build it in three days.

• • •

64 Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the aSon of man sitting on the right hand of bpower, and ccoming in the clouds of heaven.

65 Then the high priest rent his clothes, saying, He hath spoken ablasphemy; what further need have we of witnesses? behold, now ye have heard his blasphemy.

Matt. 27: 39

39 ¶ And they that passed by areviled him, wagging their heads,

Mark 3: 28-29

28 aVerily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies bwherewith soever they shall blaspheme:

29 But he that shall ablaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never bforgiveness, but is in danger of ceternal damnation:

Luke 5: 21

21 And the scribes and the Pharisees began to reason, saying, Who is this which speaketh ablasphemies? Who can bforgive sins, but God alone?

Luke 22: 65

65 And many other things blasphemously spake they against him.

Luke 23: 39

39 ¶ And one of the malefactors which were hanged arailed on him, saying, If thou be Christ, save thyself and us.

John 10: 22-36

22 ¶ And it was at Jerusalem the feast of the dedication, and it was winter.

23 And Jesus walked in the temple in Solomon’s aporch.

24 Then came the Jews round about him, and said unto him, How long dost thou make us to adoubt? If thou be the Christ, tell us plainly.

25 Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye abelieved not: the bworks that I do in my Father’s cname, they bear witness of me.

26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

27 My asheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they bfollow me:

28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

29 My Father, which agave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father’s hand.

30 I and my Father are aone.

31 Then the Jews took up astones again to stone him.

32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?

33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for ablasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself bGod.

34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are agods?

35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;

36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath asanctified, and bsent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the cSon of God?

John 19: 7

7 The Jews answered him, We have a alaw, and by our law he ought to die, because he made himself the bSon of God.

Acts 6: 11

11 Then they suborned men, which said, We have heard him speak ablasphemous words against Moses, and against God.

Acts 7: 58

58 And cast him out of the city, and stoned him: and the witnesses laid down their aclothes at a byoung man’s feet, whose name was Saul.

Acts 13: 45

45 But when the Jews saw the multitudes, they were filled with aenvy, and spake bagainst those things which were spoken by Paul, contradicting and cblaspheming.

Acts 18: 6

6 And when they opposed themselves, and blasphemed, he ashook his raiment, and said unto them, Your bblood be upon your own heads; I am clean: from henceforth I will go unto the Gentiles.

Acts 26: 11

11 And I punished them oft in every synagogue, and compelled them to blaspheme; and being exceedingly mad against them, I persecuted them even unto astrange cities.

D&C 132: 27

27 The ablasphemy against the Holy Ghost, which shall not be forgiven in the world nor out of the world, is in that ye commit murder wherein ye shed innocent blood, and assent unto my death, after ye have received my new and everlasting covenant, saith the Lord God; and he that abideth not this law can in nowise enter into my glory, but shall be edamned, saith the Lord.

BIBLE DICTIONARY http://scriptures.lds.org/en/bd/h/56?sr=1

Holy Ghost

The third member of the Godhead and, as the name implies, a personage of Spirit, not possessing a body of flesh and bones (D&C 130: 21-22). The Holy Ghost is manifested in every dispensation of the gospel since the beginning, being first made known to Adam (1 Ne. 10: 17-22; Moses 6: 51-68). The Holy Ghost is manifested to men on the earth both as the power of the Holy Ghost and as the gift of the Holy Ghost. The power can come upon one before baptism, and is the convincing witness that the gospel is true. It gives one a testimony of Jesus Christ and of his work and the work of his servants upon the earth. The gift can come only after proper and authorized baptism, and is conferred by the laying on of hands, as in Acts 8: 12-25 and Moroni 2: 1-3. The gift of the Holy Ghost is the right to have, whenever one is worthy, the companionship of the Holy Ghost. More powerful than that which is available before baptism, it acts as a cleansing agent to purify a person and sanctify him from all sin. Thus it is often spoken of as “fire” (Matt. 3: 11; 2 Ne. 31: 17; D&C 19: 31). The manifestation on the day of Pentecost (Acts 2) was the gift of the Holy Ghost that came upon the Twelve, without which they were not ready for their ministries to the world.

For some reason not fully explained in the scriptures, the Holy Ghost did not operate in the fulness among the Jews during the years of Jesus’ mortal sojourn (John 7: 39; John 16: 7). Statements to the effect that the Holy Ghost did not come until after Jesus was resurrected must of necessity refer to that particular dispensation only, for it is abundantly clear that the Holy Ghost was operative in earlier dispensations. Furthermore, it has reference only to the gift of the Holy Ghost not being present, since the power of the Holy Ghost was operative during the ministries of John the Baptist and Jesus; otherwise no one would have received a testimony of the truths that these men taught (cf. Matt. 16: 16-17; 1 Cor. 12: 3). When a person speaks by the power of the Holy Ghost that same power carries a conviction of the truth into the heart of the hearer (2 Ne. 33: 1). The Holy Ghost knows all things (D&C 35: 19) and can lead one to know of future events (2 Pet. 1: 21).

Other names that sometimes refer to the Holy Ghost are Holy Spirit, Spirit of god, Spirit of the Lord, Comforter, and Spirit

[Ray]

Blasphemy against the Holy Ghost, which is willfully denying Christ after having received a perfect knowledge of him from the Holy Ghost, is the unforgivable sin. - from the Bible Dictionary published officially by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints which can be found at http://scriptures.lds.org/

To hopefully help clear up some confusion, "receiving a perfect knowledge of him (Jesus Christ)" doesn't refer to having a perfect knowledge of everything there is to know about Jesus Christ, but instead refers to having a truth, any truth, which Jesus Christ Himself fully possesses, and that truth is perfect in the sense that it is perfectly (or completly) true, as evidenced by a personal witness from God.

But again, like always, you can believe who you want to believe.

[Dr T]

Thank you Nicole,

Blasphemy against the Holy Ghost, which is willfully denying Christ after having received a perfect knowledge of him from the Holy Ghost, is the unforgivable sin

That is what I've always understood it to be. :)

Dr. T

[Ray]

Thank you Nicole,

Blasphemy against the Holy Ghost, which is willfully denying Christ after having received a perfect knowledge of him from the Holy Ghost, is the unforgivable sin

That is what I've always understood it to be. :)

Dr. T

Okay, but what does that mean, in your words???

[Dr T]

Good question Ray,

I have to run one of my sons to soccer prac. and then go to another one of my son's soccer game. I'll try to answer tonight-possibly tomorrow.

Thanks,

Dr. T

[Serg]

Good question Ray,

I have to run one of my sons to soccer prac. and then go to another one of my son's soccer game. I'll try to answer tonight-possibly tomorrow.

Thanks,

Dr. T

Dr.T;

Maybe you are taking Ray wrong(not necesarrily your fault). Ray is not(or should be not-at least) be equating "blasphemy against" the Holy Ghost, with murder. In a usual "scale" for most lds members(and leaders) based on the epistles of John(when he speaks of sins that are "worth it" to pray for and others that are of pplain death) murder occupies the second "great" sin. It is not the same that denying the testimony of Jesus once had. It is a sin that can and will be forgiven. At this point of deciding the forgiveness of murder, Ray may say "no"(if he does), because "it eliminates the possibility of exaltation". But are those "exalted" the only ones forgiven? No. The scriptures (D&C) speaks of the 'pagan nations", the "murederes", the "fornicators", being redeemed at the end(of course, if they repent and accept such a work of lower grace) to be accomodated in a lower kingdom. But a kingdom of glory at last! Some others speak of truly(or-higher work of grace) forgiveness of murder as to let you your exaltation only if you chose to pay for that-hence, capital law). That, of course, is debated. Now the "blasphemy against the truth" is another story. That also can be forgiven. Why? Is it not "UN-forgivable"? Yes, as EVERY OTHER SIN if you do not repent(hence, accept the work of grace-either lower or higher). Give me an example. Ok. The Scripture says that those who are to be damned are those who "oppose the truth" "AND" "remain" doing so. How long does it take to make it "permanent" a damnation before you can repent and "stop" opposing, while denying the truth? Well, we are NOT God. At any moment, that (for example) Judas, in the spirit world, says "hey", this is not for me, i couldnt, I will turn to God, I accept his work of (be it lower or higher, anyways)grace, and I submit to live according to the Law of the Telestial Kingdom, He will get it! God forvies His enemies if they turn away from their sins. Damnation is always a matter of the WILL, not an imposing curse. Lucipher was not "cast out" in the sense that they beat him up to get him down, but he left, very contentiously that they would recognize HIS reasoning before God's, but he left!! He did not WILL(or wanted) to mingle with the gods once he knew they didnt concent, so that's why so VERY interestingly the Book of Mormon speaks of the DEVIL as the CONSTRUCTOR or he who prepared a space for his "kingdom'(hell). God did not say, well, we got a rebel here, where do we put him? Hummm, ah, in the long forgotten(never reached land) of hell. There, as a prison. Lucipher may not have been allowed to stay in "heaven"(what ever that encompasses), but certanely he chose where ELSE(given his other options) to abide. So, Judas could repent, that is, AT (as a last moment resource) the resurrection. After the 'repartition" there is done, is closed case. But, given that Judas' "repentance' be sincere(noone can say otherwise since we are not God or Judas) God will accept that act.

Just some thoughts,

PD(hey just to say, that I will be filling my mission papers this month )

Regards,

[Dr T]

Thanks Serg,

Isn't there something about when apart from God, there is no way to return in the after life in the Bible? That is a different issue. Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit was attributing to evil what was actually from the H.S. and would not be forgive like denying Jesus was.

Dr. T

[Nicole]

RAY Ok i give up am not going to flight with you!!! i have had enough i have gone out of my way to try and help you

i have given you the Truth though the Doctrine of the church of latter day saints though the bible and i have told you to read the book the miracle of forgiveness that a prophet of God has written which covers everything in deep that u need to know!!"

also i have given you Doctrine though the Books of the church that the Prophet s of god have written!! all from the scriptures with they have wriiten to help us understand more about it!!

You have said that as always i will believe who you want to believe That is hurtful!!

Ok i believe in Christs Doctrine ! i believe in the Church of Jesus Christ of latter day saints!!!!!!!!!! Doctrine as its all from GOD! there is a non latter day saint here called DR T and he believes in this Doctrine about the Blasphemy thats from the lds Doctrine that from god!

ray yours and other peoples thoughts on things IS NOT DOCRINE FROM GOD!! you say i will believe who i want to believe as always as u put it well i tell you who i belive as always I BELIEVE IN GOD AND HES DOCTRINE AND THAT ONLY! and also i have told you that i have spoken to bishop about this deny the holy ghost and i have told u over and over that only Asoples and prophets can only do that! i think u need to call your bishop am not joking on this one and ask him for your Self i will not be posting on this tread again as its a waste of my time and effect please leave this down to god!!

RAY Ok i give up am not going to flight with you!!! i have had enough i have gone out of my way to try and help you

i have given you the Truth though the Doctrine of the church of latter day saints though the bible and i have told you to read the book the miracle of forgiveness that a prophet of God has written which covers everything in deep that u need to know!!"

also i have given you Doctrine though the Books of the church that the Prophet s of god have written!! all from the scriptures with they have wriiten to help us understand more about it!!

You have said that as always i will believe who you want to believe That is hurtful!!

Ok i believe in Christs Doctrine ! i believe in the Church of Jesus Christ of latter day saints!!!!!!!!!! Doctrine as its all from GOD! there is a non latter day saint here called DR T and he believes in this Doctrine about the Blasphemy thats from the lds Doctrine that from god!

ray yours and other peoples thoughts on things IS NOT DOCRINE FROM GOD!! you say i will believe who i want to believe as always as u put it well i tell you who i belive as always I BELIEVE IN GOD AND HES DOCTRINE AND THAT ONLY! and also i have told you that i have spoken to bishop about this deny the holy ghost and i have told u over and over that only Asoples and prophets can only do that! i think u need to call your bishop am not joking on this one and ask him for your Self i will not be posting on this tread again as its a waste of my time and effect please leave this down to god!!

Life is to short for this all

can we leave it now! leave it down to the lord as i know this tread will be goin on for another 10 years lol

we just need to do our best to do what is right in our lifes we only need to prove our selfs to god not untill others

[Ray]

RAY Ok i give up am not going to flight with you!!! i have had enough i have gone out of my way to try and help you... *BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH... - *blue color added by Ray... to show what I think about what you are saying

Nicole,

Save yourself a lot of time.

Stop trying to convince me that I should listen to you and what you are saying.

Okay?

And stop trying to convince me that I should listen to anyone else that you think I should listen to... other than God.

Okay?

I will only learn from God... from what God thinks.

And I won't think what you're thinking unless I know it's what God thinks, and I can know what God thinks without knowing your thoughts.

Do you understand me now?

I know I don't need you, and I know you don't need me, we just need God to know what God knows is the truth.

And btw, this goes for everyone else too... AK, Doc, Tommy, Serg, Shannon... and all the rest of you.

I don't need you, and you don't need me, to be able to learn from God.

Okay?

Is that clear enough for you now?

No matter what you say... you can talk til you're blue in the face... I will never think what you think unless I know it's what God thinks.

And No, it's not enough for me to hear any or all of you tell me that what you're thinking is what God thinks.

I will only accept what God tells me is true.

Now, be gone... away with your foolish thoughts.

You are only making yourself look very ridiculous.

Let's talk about what WE have learned and HOW we can learn from God. :)

[Nicole]

Ok

[Princess3dward]

Nicole...

I have alot of respect for you for not following up on anything he said.

I had read that and was like... this might start something...

But you handled that wonderfully....

I wish I could do that...

Love,

Dez

[Nicole]

[Ray]

Nicole...

I have alot of respect for you for not following up on anything he said.

I had read that and was like... this might start something...

But you handled that wonderfully....

I wish I could do that...

Love,

Dez

She said the best thing she could have said, Desire'.

It would've been ridiculous for her to keep trying to convince me that I should listen to her... or anyone other than God... to learn what is true.

[Princess3dward]

She said the best thing she could have said, Desire'.

It would've been ridiculous for her to keep trying to convince me that I should listen to her... or anyone other than God... to learn what is true.

........ In my opinion...

And I am usually on my own in it...

I think the bishop is a great person to talk to about anything that you need help understanding...

[Ray]

<div class='quotemain'>

She said the best thing she could have said, Desire'.

It would've been ridiculous for her to keep trying to convince me that I should listen to her... or anyone other than God... to learn what is true.

........ In my opinion...

And I am usually on my own in it...

I think the bishop is a great person to talk to about anything that you need help understanding...

There are LOTS of good people to talk to, Desire'... and LOTS of bishops are good people... but I will rely on nobody but God to teach me the truth. :)

[Nicole]

[Dr T]

[drum roll please...]

[Nicole]

hello Dr hows u this evening?

hope all is well

[Ray]

do you believe that the Book of mormon... is the word of god?

I believe the Book of Mormon was written by men... men who knew God... who were inspired by God to write the things they wrote...yes... some words were from God... some words were from them... and I know WHO to ask to know and tell me which is which.

do you believe that the ... bible is the word of god?

I believe the Holy Bible was written by men... men who knew God... who were inspired by God to write the things they wrote... yes... some words were from God... some words were from them... and I know WHO to ask to know and tell me which is which.

do you belive the Doctrine of LDS is of god?

I believe most of the doctrine that is taught by the prophets of God in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was and is inspired by God... yes... and that which did not and does not come from God is still or will be authorized by God because God has authorized certain people to teach in His church.

do you belive that the Aspotles and prophets and bishops Guides us in all things though god?

I believe most of the counsel given through prophets in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints... and by the term "prophet" I'm including apostles and bishops and stake presidents and area authorities and general authorities, etc...is given by God through the power of the Holy Ghost... yes... but I don't believe them just because they say so, or because they have those positions in the Church, but because God gives me His assurance to know what is true.

do you only belive that the thoughts u have in your mind are of god and nothing else is?

Heh, No. And even if I was the only one on Earth who really knew what God thought, God would.

how old are you?

Heh, I was born on this Earth on March 4, 1961, at 6:18am, CT, so you go figure it out.

Before that... ???

how long have u been lds?

I joined the Church on July 23, 1989, at 7:23pm, PT, so you go figure it out.

do you belive that the lds church is of god and is true?

Yes.

Hope u dont mind asking!!

If I "minded" I'd have let you know. I was raised in Texas and I have no problem with letting you know what I think. And to know what I know is true I did, and you can, simply ask God.

[Nicole]

Thank you for taking your time to answer me

I hope u have a good weekend everyone!

[Princess3dward]

Apostles was capalized... but Prophets were not.

God never was, and Doctrine was...

Guide was....

Just thinking in text..

I thought it was weird how in the questions, capitals went in the most random places.... but not on God...