Questions regarding the death of a family member...

[Chango]

It's not my intention to disturb anyone by my comments here, and I am not looking for sympathy or a shoulder to cry on but would just greatly appreciate honest answers. I don't want to ramble on too much but at the same time I want to present as many facts as I can in hopes of getting any thoughts from all who may choose to read...

I recently lost my brother a few weeks ago to suicide, (he overdosed on prescription medication.) As my brother was an active member of the LDS church, like myself, I am greatly perplexed and saddened by this, there are no words to describe it, and it has left so so many questions to be answered for myself and family. My brother battled depression and anxiety particularly social anxiety throughout his life (he was 29, I am 31.) He never had many if any friends, and tried medication a number of times but I think it was more "life" related not a chemical imbalance. My brother also suffered from pretty severe chronic insomnia, for which he took medication every day to get to sleep. This sort of developed into a real fear or phobia for him that he battled day after day, and I could see the changes it brought about in him, he became extremely quiet and withdrawn even from our family and that just wasn't him. He was also very obsessive compulsive, and would always go on the internet or chat forums or whatever to try and read about his disorder he had, and he blamed this or himself in part for it worsening, but not for it's happening. I know above all he felt guilty for the pain and sorrow he felt that he inflicted on his family as a result of his problems and he wanted that to stop. I know he was very frustrated by the apparent lack of help from "God" as he was an active and worthy church member during his life. He leaves behind his wife and two small children, whom I KNOW he loved more than anything. He had been unemployed for the last 2 years, mostly due to this mysterious illness, and he did not nor did he ever have any kind of addiction problems to drugs or medications. His wife I know would agree with all I wrote here as we have had countless conversations.

- I guess my first question is, my brother is not a "Son of perdition" for doing this is he? He was married and sealed in the temple and everything, active in the church right up until his death. Does this one act define his eternity? Will he be able to attain a kingdom of glory in the next life? (What exactly is a son of perdition? It seems a very cruel fate for any to suffer...)

- I know the church has stated in print that some individuals may be subject to great distress and as such may not be accountable for their acts. This seems to me to sort of contradict the whole "You wont be given more than you are able to bear" philosophy, so which is it? Why would God send someone to Earth and have them encounter more than they could bear?

- Lastly, will his wife be able to be sealed to someone else later on in life if she so chooses? Will she need to get a temple divorce first? Children are sealed to the parents only that they are born too?

I apologize for the length of this post, perhaps there is even someone who has dealt with the loss of a family member in this manner? Or lost a family member period, I appreciate any and all comments and thank you for your time if you read this. -

Edited December 5, 2011 by Chango

[Guest gopecon]

First off, I am sorry for your loss. I think that suicide is often harder to deal with than natural or accidental death. All my best to your family.

A "son of perdition" is someone who had sure knowledge of the plan of Heavenly Father and turned against it to such a degree that they would have consented to the crucifixion of the Lord. Very few people qualify for this. That is a separate question from this one act defining his eternity. The Lord knows where his heart and mind were at the time of his death. Suicide is wrong, but we can't know the mental state of people who commit it. As he is not likely a son of perdition, my understanding is that he would be eligible for one of the kingdoms of glory.

I think that the idea of "not being tempted above that which we are able" is misunderstood. Many people give up and lose hope in this life. We are able to endure when we exercise faith and cast our burdens on the Lord. The fact that some people are overwhelmed is not proof of the Lord abandoning them, but it might be evidence that they lost faith. (Again, we can't know anyone's mental/spiritual state, suicidal or otherwise).

As far as his wife and children, that would be something that would need to be addressed by her bishop (who I would be surprised if he didn't have to run it farther up the line).

[annewandering]

It is not the end of the line for him. You dont believe it was a chemical imbalance but that is something you just dont know. God does and He loves your brother even more than you do so you can trust he will deal with your brother fairly.

His wife is very young to commit to an entire life of widowhood. That is something she is, probably, going to have to deal with down the life but not now. Its just going to be one of those wait and see things, I would guess.

Right now she has a lot more pressing things to worry about than future marriage.

I am sorry you are going through this. It's hard to imagine how difficult it must be.

[CookieC]

You have my sympathy. What a difficult time for you!

I can't, of course, give you any definitive answers as to your brother's future, but I can share an experience that I had that might give you some new perspective.

Several years ago, a friend (who was also a neighbor) committed suicide following several years of depression and prescription drug addiction. I was devastated to lose her, but was even more devastated by the attitudes of some of our other, supposedly righteous LDS neighbors. I simply couldn't wrap my head around the idea that a woman who was in so much pain would lose her family forever, too.

When I sought out my Bishop for counsel, he said that he was inspired to let me know that she was not in full control of her actions at the time of her suicide. The drugs, addiction and depression had robbed her of her free agency to such a point that he (the Bishop) didn't believe that she would have to bear the full weight of her actions at the judgement bar. I prayed about his counsel and felt assurance that all would be well for her and that, at last, she had found some peace.

Best wishes to you and your family.

[NeuroTypical]

Does this one act define his eternity? Will he be able to attain a kingdom of glory in the next life?

So many questions - we humans are unable to give relevant answers because we lack the tools to judge your brother's heart. We can, however, rest assured that the person who will judge your brother, will judge perfect judgement - in full posession of all the facts - including all the stresses and burdens your brother bore.

I know the church has stated in print that some individuals may be subject to great distress and as such may not be accountable for their acts. This seems to me to sort of contradict the whole "You wont be given more than you are able to bear" philosophy, so which is it?

This is a great question. I ask you - what does "able to bear" look like? Does it mean that you'll never die or be killed? Does it mean if you die of injuries or illness, you failed at bearing your burden? Of course not. I submit to you a notion: "able to bear" contains an eternal perspective. It is a question of character, not merely a question of ability to emerge on the other side of a challenge with your mortal heart still beating.

I personally believe that there is a line, past which we can go or be pushed. On one side of the line, we're fully accountable for our actions. On the other side of the line, our actions are not in our control. Consider a very young child that gets mad at his sibling, and pushes him down the stairs to his death. The child did not possess the mental faculties necessary to be fully accountable for that action - it was a terrible tragedy, but the child is not to blame. Consider a person with paranoid schizophrenia, who is convinced by the voices to do some horrible thing. Earthly justice is one thing - but heavenly justice is perfect, and will perfectly blend mercy and justice.

I don't know about your brother - but I know there is room for hope.

Lastly, will his wife be able to be sealed to someone else later on in life if she so chooses? Will she need to get a temple divorce first? Children are sealed to the parents only that they are born too?

That's a question for her Bishop - and the Bishop would probably need to counsel with his SP or even church HQ on that one.

perhaps there is even someone who has dealt with the loss of a family member in this manner?

Yes, you're in very good company here. I lost both parents a decade apart to things that could be considered suicide. Mom refused medical treatment for a simple infection because she wanted to die. Dad refused to do anything about his mild, treatable cancer for the same reason. I've learned a few things from then to now:

* If you remember who they were, not just how they choose to die, you usually end up with comforting memories.

* The loved ones do not bear the blame for whatever they chose to do (or did when not accountable). Whatever marital strife or arguments or meanness or regret any loved one has, doesn't justify taking a life. Beware of misplaced guilt.

* "I don't know - it's in God's hands" is an answer you can learn to live with. Not only that, it's an answer that can give a great relief of the burdens you carry.

God bless.

[Guest mormonmusic]

You won't get a definitive answer on this...even though we have claim to a divine commission, leaders who commune with God, no one on this earth can say what his fate is....but I take comfort in a couple things I have read in the scriptures:

1. We will all acknowledge God's judgments are just.

2. God's reward is the most he can give, and his censure the least necessary.

I also think that if your relative had a medical problem that changes the accountability very favorably in your favor.

[Blocky]

I assume you've read Suicide: Some Things We Know, and Some We Do Not - Ensign Oct. 1987 - ensign In the beginning of this article, there are some very strong statements made, but in the middle a hopeful light is shed on the subject. Towards the end there are a few personal stories that are shared and a few of them have similarities to what you've shared in this post.

It talks about how we can slowly slip away from having control over our actions, especially where medical and extremely stressful situations occur. There is the idea that suicide may mare our entrance into the spirit world but doesn't negate all the good we do in our lives.