Dentists and September 11th

[Dravin]

Lets start with Muslims as terrorists?

It looks like he asked you to address (ignoring the dentist part of things):

1) How American is in greater danger from power hungry men in America, not from Muslims.

2) That those responsible for 9/11 weren't Muslim.

Your post seems to be aimed at #1 (I'm assuming your thesis is Western involvement in the Middle East is the ultimate source of radical threat). #2 is what I would expect "Muslims as terrorists" to address, which it doesn't really. Did you mean to address #1 and not #2? Or is it a case of you are carrying on aspects from the original thread that aren't carried over in his short quotes and questions?

Edited April 16, 2012 by Dravin

[Hala401]

None of the Muslims I knew feel that the 9/11 attackers were true Muslims. All seem to agree that while these folk may have been nominal Muslims, they were living according to their lower natures. It is a whole study finding out how Muslims view their walk before Allah SWT. I found it very interesting. Of course, my primary contact with Muslims was with the Sisters, and those in America, though I did talk to some men on skype, but these sorts were mostly out to talk dirty and degrade women. I don't need to go into detail. It did not take more than twice to become wiser.

I did meet one man who responded to a comment I made on an article in Arab News, and he and I became very good friends. I met him when he came to America to attend College and I must say that while he was a little sexist, were our ages close, I would absolutely marry the man. He was a prince to me.

Some Muslims call the terrorists, Freedom Fighters, those mainly being in Afghanistan, and Pakistan, and keeping in mind the suffering of the people there, the point of view is not surprising.

The US involved in insidious mischief.

Most American Muslims I know do believe that the whole truth is not known by the people. The other day I was viewing an analysis of what ever hit the pentagon. For a long time, I had been convinced it was a cruise missile but on viewing this new video on youtube, I can see where it could have been an airliner. This new one showed where half a dozen light poles where knocked down as it approached.

In the case of the Pentagon attack, the secrecy surrounding the whole incident worked against the public good until they revealed more information. I think a lot of government secrecy is pointless and the public would be better off knowing it all as it happened. Just my opinion.

I have heard people say that the WTC was deliberately demolished and I say it was, and here is why, though I expect to be called names over this. I was an Electrician for over 30 years and had to attend refresher classes 3 times a year to make sure we knew the constantly changing electrical law. Of course, a woman sitting with a bunch of men at lunch, is subject to two things. "The First Liar does Not have a chance" and "We gotta impress the little woman".

So in one of these classes, I was sitting at lunch with a quite handsome elderly Electrician and the conversation got round to 9/11. He was a high rise Electrician and these guys are specialized because of the verticle height. He said the following, and I believe him. "All high rise buildings over 10 stories have demolition charges built into them so that in the event of a large fire or disaster, the charges can be blown, thus making the building fall straight down rather than fall over." Who sets the charges off I do not know and when I revealed my interest, he said he couldn't tell me more because of security. Imagine what it would have been like if either of those towers had fallen over. It is not my story, it was his. Now I will brace myself for the ridicule.

It is a well documented statistic that 10% of those who died in the towers were Muslims.

Now, as to sneaky government deals, the President was aware that Pearl Harbor was being attacked before it happened. I am told that he wanted the old worn out fleet destroyed, and that he wanted the American people mad enough to declare war.

Now as to rich power hungry Americans being dangerous, I give you the last several years of American History. Clinton gave us a 2.9 Trillion budget surplus. Bush gave us a 7 Trillion dollar short fall. Hmmm. Look at the way banks collapsed. Remember Bernie Maddof? Of course, I think a major part of the collapse was overspending on credit cards by Americans.

[JudoMinja]

And if that doesn't work, hit them with a massive uchi mata?

Harai goshi is much more satisfying.

Well, my preferred throw is Osoto Gari, but I certainly wouldn't use that on a dentist. They'd end up clonking their head on the ground and suing me for malpractice.

[slamjet]

I say man up and let 'em go in with no Novocaine; DRILL, BABY DRILL!!!

And yes, I have done that. One tooth (molar) that could not be anesthetized. So they just went in and drilled without any juice. I didn't flinch. But then I got a finger cut off when I was two and a half... and no, I didn't cry (confirmed by my mother, sister, and other various relatives).

[Guest]

You know, for what it's worth, I totally get where Hala is coming from. Let's admit it folks, we all (I'll take Philippines in with you American and British folks) messed up in re-establashing the Israeli state in Jerusalem in the WWI/WWII era.

We all messed up in dealing with Iran leading to and culminating in the Carter era.

Both incidences among others led to Islamic extremists that gave Marcos his dictatorial power and still continue to wreck havoc in the Philippines until today... and, we all know the myriad of stuff that happened in the US since then.

And yes, in the Philippines, there is Muslim and there is Abbu Sayaf - one not necessarily having to do with the other... it's like saying those Mountain Meadows massacre-rers are Mormons. Yeah, they're Mormons, but Mormons don't go about massacre-ing people.

Now, I get where Klein and y'all are coming from. You're thinking - conspiracy theory - Bush blew up the towers, not the extremists! No, that's not what Hala is saying, I don't think. That's too narrow-minded. Think historical/holistic viewpoint. You might see what Hala is pointing at - the western super powers manipulating little countries and messed it up. Funkytown will probably give a much better explanation of all this than what my "English as a 3rd Language" mutterings can tell you.

Edited April 17, 2012 by anatess

[Hala401]

Thank you Anatess. I am definitely American, and I love to know about other peoples and countries. I can easily say Heavenly and Father in the same sentence now with out experiencing the terror and hate that I did even a year ago. This is because God has taught me a new context for belief in a Father. And now Heavenly Father is taking me on yet another new journey and I have no idea where we are going.

Of all people, I would think that members of our church would begin to see the world in an international context. Geeze Elder and Sister Missionaries go all over the place, and live with so many different people. Can it be that the Missionaries have gone out to witness of Jesus Christ and have not experienced the cultures that they lived in?

There was a short time after my divorce that I experienced so much darkness. I could have easily become one of those people we loosely call terrorists. Even when I did not recognise Heavenly Father, he was guiding my steps. So consumed by grief and pain, I did not know that I fought him. I am sorry Heavenly Father.

I've been privileged to experience some of the language and culture of a dozen different countries, some more, some less, and I believe that in a very real sense we are all the same. We want good things for our babies. We find love in some people and fear others. I am incurably American and happy to be so, but I am also an international child.

I recognise words respectful and devout toward our creator in a few different languages. Khoda Hafez, Bismillah, Jesu Christo, Shallom Alechem, Salaam Alaikom, and others that I will recognise but can not recall at this time. It is 4:00 AM and suddenly I am awake, in a way that seldom happens to me. I wonder what Heavenly Father wants me to see this morning?

As a people that Heavenly Father has given special grace and knowledge, we need to embrace our special purpose. It was Sister Missionaries that showed me how it is believed that our church will save the constitution, and bring the world into a new understanding of God's will and purpose.

So, I have met people who have drilled water wells for the Peace Corps (CIA) in Africa, and who have crawled in tunnels in Vietnam with an un pinned hand grenade and a pistol. It is difficult to make sense of how a Saudi Man that I love hates the American Military. I can't understand how it is that Shia and Sunni Muslims hate each other and for some reason, both hate the Jews. I have experienced Jews from both sides, and can scarcely make sense of it. Arab children who were raised on the hate and injustice that their parents have experienced have thrown rocks at the bus I was riding.

So, some of you experience shock when I say that some of our American history is dark. Still, I do not know a country in the world that has given away its wealth like America has. Its confusing and hard to understand. I hope that I have done what Heavenly Father got me up to do. I'm gonna pray and try to go back to sleep. I remember that Sr. Golightly told me, "Keep sweet Sister Boucher".

[Dravin]

So, some of you experience shock when I say that some of our American history is dark.

What happens a lot of the time is someone says, "America's actions in the Middle East have helped create the conditions that are spawning a bunch of people who hate us." and it comes across as either, "You and the people you know are creating conditions that are spawning a bunch of people who hate us." or "America deserved to have 9/11 happen to them, it was morally justified by their actions."

Sometimes a combination of the two.

[Hala401]

What happens a lot of the time is someone says, "America's actions in the Middle East have helped create the conditions that are spawning a bunch of people who hate us." and it comes across as either, "You and the people you know are creating conditions that are spawning a bunch of people who hate us." or "America deserved to have 9/11 happen to them, it was morally justified by their actions."

Sometimes a combination of the two.

I think it is called something like battlefield guilt. I do not say that Americans created the problem, but that the actions of some people at our State Department, certain branches of the government, and some unscrupulous business men, both American and foreign created the wars.

For example: Why would our CIA and British MI6 feel entitled to undermine and overthrow a democratically elected government? I think the short answer is that Iran was getting friendly with the USSR, and in the Cold War that was not acceptable. Even now, some in the West are pushing very hard for the US to fight with Iran. It all feels really icky.

I know that the church is true and that somehow Heavenly Father will help us find a role that is pleasing to him.

[Klein_Helmer]

None of the Muslims I knew feel that the 9/11 attackers were true Muslims. All seem to agree that while these folk may have been nominal Muslims, they were living according to their lower natures. It is a whole study finding out how Muslims view their walk before Allah SWT. I found it very interesting. Of course, my primary contact with Muslims was with the Sisters, and those in America, though I did talk to some men on skype, but these sorts were mostly out to talk dirty and degrade women. I don't need to go into detail. It did not take more than twice to become wiser.

I did meet one man who responded to a comment I made on an article in Arab News, and he and I became very good friends. I met him when he came to America to attend College and I must say that while he was a little sexist, were our ages close, I would absolutely marry the man. He was a prince to me.

Some Muslims call the terrorists, Freedom Fighters, those mainly being in Afghanistan, and Pakistan, and keeping in mind the suffering of the people there, the point of view is not surprising.

The US involved in insidious mischief.

Most American Muslims I know do believe that the whole truth is not known by the people. The other day I was viewing an analysis of what ever hit the pentagon. For a long time, I had been convinced it was a cruise missile but on viewing this new video on youtube, I can see where it could have been an airliner. This new one showed where half a dozen light poles where knocked down as it approached.

In the case of the Pentagon attack, the secrecy surrounding the whole incident worked against the public good until they revealed more information. I think a lot of government secrecy is pointless and the public would be better off knowing it all as it happened. Just my opinion.

I have heard people say that the WTC was deliberately demolished and I say it was, and here is why, though I expect to be called names over this. I was an Electrician for over 30 years and had to attend refresher classes 3 times a year to make sure we knew the constantly changing electrical law. Of course, a woman sitting with a bunch of men at lunch, is subject to two things. "The First Liar does Not have a chance" and "We gotta impress the little woman".

So in one of these classes, I was sitting at lunch with a quite handsome elderly Electrician and the conversation got round to 9/11. He was a high rise Electrician and these guys are specialized because of the verticle height. He said the following, and I believe him. "All high rise buildings over 10 stories have demolition charges built into them so that in the event of a large fire or disaster, the charges can be blown, thus making the building fall straight down rather than fall over." Who sets the charges off I do not know and when I revealed my interest, he said he couldn't tell me more because of security. Imagine what it would have been like if either of those towers had fallen over. It is not my story, it was his. Now I will brace myself for the ridicule.

It is a well documented statistic that 10% of those who died in the towers were Muslims.

Now, as to sneaky government deals, the President was aware that Pearl Harbor was being attacked before it happened. I am told that he wanted the old worn out fleet destroyed, and that he wanted the American people mad enough to declare war.

Now as to rich power hungry Americans being dangerous, I give you the last several years of American History. Clinton gave us a 2.9 Trillion budget surplus. Bush gave us a 7 Trillion dollar short fall. Hmmm. Look at the way banks collapsed. Remember Bernie Maddof? Of course, I think a major part of the collapse was overspending on credit cards by Americans.

Well, my preferred throw is Osoto Gari, but I certainly wouldn't use that on a dentist. They'd end up clonking their head on the ground and suing me for malpractice.

You know, for what it's worth, I totally get where Hala is coming from. Let's admit it folks, we all (I'll take Philippines in with you American and British folks) messed up in re-establashing the Israeli state in Jerusalem in the WWI/WWII era.

We all messed up in dealing with Iran leading to and culminating in the Carter era.

Both incidences among others led to Islamic extremists that gave Marcos his dictatorial power and still continue to wreck havoc in the Philippines until today... and, we all know the myriad of stuff that happened in the US since then.

And yes, in the Philippines, there is Muslim and there is Abbu Sayaf - one not necessarily having to do with the other... it's like saying those Mountain Meadows massacre-rers are Mormons. Yeah, they're Mormons, but Mormons don't go about massacre-ing people.

Now, I get where Klein and y'all are coming from. You're thinking - conspiracy theory - Bush blew up the towers, not the extremists! No, that's not what Hala is saying, I don't think. That's too narrow-minded. Think historical/holistic viewpoint. You might see what Hala is pointing at - the western super powers manipulating little countries and messed it up. Funkytown will probably give a much better explanation of all this than what my "English as a 3rd Language" mutterings can tell you.

Thank you Anatess. I am definitely American, and I love to know about other peoples and countries. I can easily say Heavenly and Father in the same sentence now with out experiencing the terror and hate that I did even a year ago. This is because God has taught me a new context for belief in a Father. And now Heavenly Father is taking me on yet another new journey and I have no idea where we are going.

Of all people, I would think that members of our church would begin to see the world in an international context. Geeze Elder and Sister Missionaries go all over the place, and live with so many different people. Can it be that the Missionaries have gone out to witness of Jesus Christ and have not experienced the cultures that they lived in?

There was a short time after my divorce that I experienced so much darkness. I could have easily become one of those people we loosely call terrorists. Even when I did not recognise Heavenly Father, he was guiding my steps. So consumed by grief and pain, I did not know that I fought him. I am sorry Heavenly Father.

I've been privileged to experience some of the language and culture of a dozen different countries, some more, some less, and I believe that in a very real sense we are all the same. We want good things for our babies. We find love in some people and fear others. I am incurably American and happy to be so, but I am also an international child.

I recognise words respectful and devout toward our creator in a few different languages. Khoda Hafez, Bismillah, Jesu Christo, Shallom Alechem, Salaam Alaikom, and others that I will recognise but can not recall at this time. It is 4:00 AM and suddenly I am awake, in a way that seldom happens to me. I wonder what Heavenly Father wants me to see this morning?

As a people that Heavenly Father has given special grace and knowledge, we need to embrace our special purpose. It was Sister Missionaries that showed me how it is believed that our church will save the constitution, and bring the world into a new understanding of God's will and purpose.

So, I have met people who have drilled water wells for the Peace Corps (CIA) in Africa, and who have crawled in tunnels in Vietnam with an un pinned hand grenade and a pistol. It is difficult to make sense of how a Saudi Man that I love hates the American Military. I can't understand how it is that Shia and Sunni Muslims hate each other and for some reason, both hate the Jews. I have experienced Jews from both sides, and can scarcely make sense of it. Arab children who were raised on the hate and injustice that their parents have experienced have thrown rocks at the bus I was riding.

So, some of you experience shock when I say that some of our American history is dark. Still, I do not know a country in the world that has given away its wealth like America has. Its confusing and hard to understand. I hope that I have done what Heavenly Father got me up to do. I'm gonna pray and try to go back to sleep. I remember that Sr. Golightly told me, "Keep sweet Sister Boucher".

What happens a lot of the time is someone says, "America's actions in the Middle East have helped create the conditions that are spawning a bunch of people who hate us." and it comes across as either, "You and the people you know are creating conditions that are spawning a bunch of people who hate us." or "America deserved to have 9/11 happen to them, it was morally justified by their actions."

Sometimes a combination of the two.

I think it is called something like battlefield guilt. I do not say that Americans created the problem, but that the actions of some people at our State Department, certain branches of the government, and some unscrupulous business men, both American and foreign created the wars.

For example: Why would our CIA and British MI6 feel entitled to undermine and overthrow a democratically elected government? I think the short answer is that Iran was getting friendly with the USSR, and in the Cold War that was not acceptable. Even now, some in the West are pushing very hard for the US to fight with Iran. It all feels really icky.

I know that the church is true and that somehow Heavenly Father will help us find a role that is pleasing to him.

Quoted for posterity.

I will return when time allows.

I suggest bringing popcorn.