Gaming/tv addiction or habit?

[Dravin]

Well, if every single moment of his free time is spent in a game then there's really no other option to contemplate the meaning of life but to discuss it in the middle of one.

"There is no other time we can discuss this." is different then, "Your hobby is silly and pointless and I will interrupt it with anything and whenever because pretty much anything on the planet is more important." Her post emanated the latter not the former. The former attitude will respect if when all is said and done he restricts himself to 1 hour of gaming on Monday and Wednesday nights, and 2 hours on Saturday and wait until his set aside time is over, the latter will not.

Also, yes, you can make him understand what you are trying to say by changing your communication method to be on his wavelength.

No you can't. He's a human being with his own agency and will, you can not enforce your understanding (understanding in this context come across as a synonym for agreement) on him. The thought that if you could just speak the magical words he would be unable to not agree with you. It's hubris. Now one can take efforts to help him understand, by doing such things as adapting your communication style to something he gets better. But in the end his understanding is something he does, not something you do. Which leads us to making someone do something.

Same thing with making him do something.

Unless you are physically forcing someone you can not make them do something. One can encourage, one can punish, one can wheedle, one can help, and otherwise use what influence they have with a person with the desire and aim, of having them do something. In the end you can't make them shy of physically forcing them and even then your pool of somethings is limited to actions. You could make him say, "I understand." but understanding is still up to him.

Really, the adage about how you don't have the power to change other people, only to change yourself would be horrendously false if you can make someone understand and do something.

Edited April 25, 2012 by Dravin

[annewandering]

Anyone ever watch Fried Green Tomatoes? Remember the wife whos husband comes home and turns on the tv? She does EVERY thing and he just doesnt notice. She finally just stopped and worked on what was important to her. He did notice when she knocked down a wall in the house to make a room for her friend, Jessica. lol

[mhsmd]

LOL!!!!! Now you're giving really destructive ideas!

[mhsmd]

Okay, I've read some other posts. One of the problems is that he won't pause a game if he's able when I want to talk to him. It's always "Wait til the next save point." So, I wait. It passes, and he says that it's a really good part and to wait til the next save point. I don't just barge in whenever, though I'd like to, because I understand that it's important to respect him if I am to expect respect in return. Only when I've run out of patience do I stop caring about where he is in the game, and that's once every couple of weeks.

It's hard for me to relate because I don't really enjoy movies much. If he needs me and I'm in the middle of a show, I do usually pause the show b/c I know I can come back to it. If I'm in the middle of chores or a job application, then I'll get upset because I'll forget to finish or be unable to finish (unless it's more urgent/important than my task).

I think the gaming addiction/hobby thing is about priorities. One's priorities should be to reality, not a computer, imo.

[Dravin]

I think the gaming addiction/hobby thing is about priorities. One's priorities should be to reality, not a computer, imo.

It is about priorities but it's not so much about reality versus intangibles. If he was spending the same amount of time, and in the same way, making sure the petunias were perfect or perfecting his golf swing it wouldn't be any better because his focus is on something more tangible. It's prioritizing recreation/leisure versus responsibilities what ever the recreation/leisure may be.

This mainly is what I've been stressing, or at least trying too. Taking the approach, "You're letting your hobby take precedence over responsibilities." is less likely to backfire than, "Your hobby is silly, stupid, and intangible, so stop spending so much time doing it." The latter immediately puts him on the defensive and shifts the focus from achieving a proper balance in his life to defending the validity of gaming as a leisure activity.

We here are not mind readers, we only have what you post. So when you give a frustrated vent we don't know just how large it looms in your perception and attitudes. So you tend to get qualified worse case scenarios as responses.

[Guest]

"No you can't. He's a human being with his own agency and will, you can not enforce your understanding (understanding in this context come across as a synonym for agreement) on him. The thought that if you could just speak the magical words he would be unable to not agree with you. It's hubris. Now one can take efforts to help him understand, by doing such things as adapting your communication style to something he gets better. But in the end his understanding is something he does, not something you do. Which leads us to making someone do something.

Unless you are physically forcing someone you can not make them do something. One can encourage, one can punish, one can wheedle, one can help, and otherwise use what influence they have with a person with the desire and aim, of having them do something. In the end you can't make them shy of physically forcing them and even then your pool of somethings is limited to actions. You could make him say, "I understand." but understanding is still up to him.

Okay, I know where we got forked. It's the word MAKE. English is my 3rd language so word nuances sometimes get me confused. But this phrase in particular is so commonly used that I don't think I got it wrong. But then, I've probably gotten it wrong the entire time...

I hear it all the time, though. The expression, "I want to make him understand what I'm trying to say" is pretty common. I hear it a lot and I use it too. That expression never occurred to me that someone is being forced to agree. Even now, I'm contemplating this phrase and I am still about 95% sure it doesn't mean to force somebody to understand. Think of Martina McBride's song "How Far" that goes:

How far do I have to go to make you understand.

I wanna make this work so much it hurts ...

I can read this entire song lyrics and I don't see anywhere where Martina was trying to say she is wanting to force him to agree. In the lyrics, it is more that she is trying her best to find any method - even extreme methods - that could ... ah, make him understand.. I mean - see, it's a very common expression!... or, in other words, that could get him to see what she's trying to say.

I don't know. I just don't see the expression "make you understand" as meaning, "force you to agree with me". It's more of a way to present your side of the story so that he sees what you see in the same manner that you see it. UNDERSTAND. Not necessarily AGREE.

Just like I would like to make PrisonChaplain understand LDS teaching doesn't necessarily follow that I expect him to get baptized LDS as soon as he understands it. So, if the sentence, "PC, I want to make you understand why I believe marriage is eternal" is not appropriate, then what is the proper sentence to use?

Of course, to the OP's situation, the intent is to eventually get somebody to agree on something. Agreement can't come unless you can get somebody to understand what you're saying first. So, it is an easier challenge to accept the result to "agree to disagree" if both understand each other's viewpoint. Because, I can see how if the husband puts the effort to try to understand what she's saying, then he would try to get her to understand his as well. Compromise can be achieved after there is understanding.

Edited April 25, 2012 by anatess

[Dravin]

The expression, "I want to make him understand what I'm trying to say" is pretty common.

Yes, and most of the time in the context of an interpersonal dispute it means, "I want to make him agree with me." There are other times it may be talking about the ability to communicate, but much less often. This is why the the phrase, "You don't understand." is all but reflexive when someone has made a case and it has been rebuffed. It's fueled by the thought process, "If they understood they would agree. They don't agree therefore they don't understand.' Understanding becomes a surrogate for agreement.

Of course even if one wants to say, "I want to help you understand the ideas and concepts I am communicating even if you don't agree with them" it still remains that you can't make them understand.

So, if the sentence, "PC, I want to make you understand why I believe marriage is eternal" is not appropriate, then what is the proper sentence to use?

Help him understand, or even just that you want him to understand. Make turns it into forcing yourself upon him. It turns it from wanting him to understand to you wanting to make him understand. Here is something I've learned. English, in regards to certain registers, is very particular about softening requests to avoid it appearing a demand, or a display of power, even to extremes. A lot of languages for instance will phrase a request that someone do something simply as:

"Please bring me a soda from the fridge." Some may even leave off the please, but it won't be rude or pushy within that language, it's perfectly polite. This is not to say other languages lack their ways of softening requests or statements. My understanding is in Japanese culture one avoids directly saying, "No." to a request, euphemisms such as, "That would be difficult." or a response a lot of English speakers might consider evasive is used.

English speakers will tend more towards (not that's tends, plenty of English speakers use the above):

"If you don't mind would you get me a soda from the fridge?" or "Hey, while you are up would you mind getting me a soda from the fridge?" The request is softened almost to an extreme to avoid even the appearance of a demand. One of the consequences is English speakers tend to be primed to the lack of that softness. This creates a scenario where people who haven't grown up with that particular way of phrasing requests will come across as more forceful than intended.

Not that everyone goes through all the trouble of making sure their requests are as excessively soft as possible, and sometimes the intent is to be more forceful, and some registers disregard them, but we tend to notice it while it can go over non-native speaker's heads.

So:

"Get me a soda./?"

"Please get me a soda."

"Would you mind getting me a soda?"

"Hey, next time you're up, would you mind getting me a soda please?"

Each request is softer than the last (with the top one easily being a demand based on if it ends with a rise [?] or not [.]). We tend to notice. And it applies even when it is a demand, or the person is perfectly in a position to give a demand without it being an overextension of authority. When the boss says, "Would you mind getting the report to me by 5pm?" It's not really a request, but it's phrased as one.

Edt: Not everyone will agree, I know at least one native English speaker who disagrees with me about the propensity of making someone understand to be an idiom for making them agree in the context of interpersonal disagreements, and my understanding of other language patterns is second hand. But if it does hold true it could explain some of the language issues you encounter. Language can have rather interesting effects beyond the sounds we choose to represent ideas: Does Language Influence Culture? - WSJ.com

Edited April 26, 2012 by Dravin

[Martain]

Now perhaps this was a harsh thought but in reading the OP the thought came to my mind:

D&C 42:22 Thou shalt love thy wife with all thy heart, and shalt cleave unto her and none else.

Then came the thought, which is he cleaving to?

[John11111]

3-4 hours a day is considered casual gaming in the gaming community. One game/match of league of legends takes 45-90 minutes alone.

I know a lot of people watch tv for that long everyday and nobody complains about them being addicted -.-.

I think managing his priorities could use some work though I agree with the rest of you there if something needs done or wife needs more attention the games go on the shelf.

[annewandering]

John, ty for saying this. It is true. My play time on my main is 1391 days. My second character is 149 days. That is actual on game hours and I am not one of those elite players. It is a time consuming pass time. I figure it is better than staring at a wall but if you have a young family at home it is a difficult job juggling time.

[log2]

I wish I could plead with the OP's husband to hear her with his heart. I hope mhsmd takes this to the Lord and seeks counsel at his hand. Please take this to the temple and ponder and pray, even if you go alone. I believe if this becomes a power struggle between spouses, then even if somebody wins, nobody wins.

[Guest]

Yes, and most of the time in the context of an interpersonal dispute it means, "I want to make him agree with me." There are other times it may be talking about the ability to communicate, but much less often. This is why the the phrase, "You don't understand." is all but reflexive when someone has made a case and it has been rebuffed. It's fueled by the thought process, "If they understood they would agree. They don't agree therefore they don't understand.' Understanding becomes a surrogate for agreement.

Of course even if one wants to say, "I want to help you understand the ideas and concepts I am communicating even if you don't agree with them" it still remains that you can't make them understand.

Help him understand, or even just that you want him to understand. Make turns it into forcing yourself upon him. It turns it from wanting him to understand to you wanting to make him understand. Here is something I've learned. English, in regards to certain registers, is very particular about softening requests to avoid it appearing a demand, or a display of power, even to extremes. A lot of languages for instance will phrase a request that someone do something simply as:

"Please bring me a soda from the fridge." Some may even leave off the please, but it won't be rude or pushy within that language, it's perfectly polite. This is not to say other languages lack their ways of softening requests or statements. My understanding is in Japanese culture one avoids directly saying, "No." to a request, euphemisms such as, "That would be difficult." or a response a lot of English speakers might consider evasive is used.

English speakers will tend more towards (not that's tends, plenty of English speakers use the above):

"If you don't mind would you get me a soda from the fridge?" or "Hey, while you are up would you mind getting me a soda from the fridge?" The request is softened almost to an extreme to avoid even the appearance of a demand. One of the consequences is English speakers tend to be primed to the lack of that softness. This creates a scenario where people who haven't grown up with that particular way of phrasing requests will come across as more forceful than intended.

Not that everyone goes through all the trouble of making sure their requests are as excessively soft as possible, and sometimes the intent is to be more forceful, and some registers disregard them, but we tend to notice it while it can go over non-native speaker's heads.

So:

"Get me a soda./?"

"Please get me a soda."

"Would you mind getting me a soda?"

"Hey, next time you're up, would you mind getting me a soda please?"

Each request is softer than the last (with the top one easily being a demand based on if it ends with a rise [?] or not [.]). We tend to notice. And it applies even when it is a demand, or the person is perfectly in a position to give a demand without it being an overextension of authority. When the boss says, "Would you mind getting the report to me by 5pm?" It's not really a request, but it's phrased as one.

Edt: Not everyone will agree, I know at least one native English speaker who disagrees with me about the propensity of making someone understand to be an idiom for making them agree in the context of interpersonal disagreements, and my understanding of other language patterns is second hand. But if it does hold true it could explain some of the language issues you encounter. Language can have rather interesting effects beyond the sounds we choose to represent ideas: Does Language Influence Culture? - WSJ.com

DRAVIN! If I can thank you 100 times for this post, I will!

This explains A LOT of my language issues on this forum.

Okay, in my first language - Bisaya, there's not really "softening" in word choice. The softening is in the facial expression or intonation - and even then, if you've known each other a long time, the facial expression is not necessary. Please, therefore, is not necessary. Yes, you use it as a sign of respect, especially with people you don't know well. But, when you're with friends and family, it's not necessary - they know you respect them. It's just "understood". I love you is the same. You don't normally hear that being said among friends and family. It's just "understood".

When you pass by a co-worker in the elevator, you don't ask "how was your weekend?" unless you really want to know because they're going to tell you all about their weekend. There's not much need for small talk in Bisaya. It's just not necessary. We're comfortable just standing side by side in silence.

My dad never did learn "telephone ettiquette", so he talks on the phone just like he talks to me face to face. When he is done talking, he hangs up the phone. No bye, no okay, no nothing. Just "click" and you know he's done with the conversation. If you wanted to say something more, you dial him back. Yeah, it sounds really wierd but for the Bisaya people, it kinda makes sense even if nobody else does it.

Bisaya is so different from English - and even very much different than Japanese - in the sense that the words are said fast and staccato and with gusto. So, it took my husband a while to realize that when a bunch of Bisaya people are talking, they're not arguing - they're just... talking. You'll know they're fighting because the faces change and the hands start to get angry (hand gestures expressing frustration - can't really explain it on the internet), even when the words said are the exact same from a regular exchange of opinions and it's said in the same staccato manner.

And yes, when we argue, agreeing to disagree is not common in Bisaya. Arguments are usually engaged in when you care enough about the matter that you want to bring the matter into an agreement. The traditional Bisaya culture during a stalemate is not to agree to disagree but to succumb to the one with higher authority - child succombs to the parent, student succombs to the teacher, and yes, wife succombs to the husband. When the people in a stalemate are peers - the "Filipino hospitality" seeps in and they both start to say nice things about the other's argument that if you're an American looking in you start to get confused on who is arguing for what... so, in the end, both agreed to agree with the other. It's hard to explain...

So, it is imperative, especially as the person with lower authority, to be able to "make the other person understand you" so you'll have a chance of him agreeing with you if you don't want to agree with him... did that make sense?

Edited April 30, 2012 by anatess

[Windseeker]

3-4 hours a day is considered casual gaming in the gaming community. One game/match of league of legends takes 45-90 minutes alone.

My son mentioned this game to me this very morning. It sounds interesting.

This to me is a ground breaking talk related to this subject.

Things as They Really Are - Liahona June 2010 - liahona