She's mad and i don't care

[bl80920335]

So last night my wife and I had a fight. By fight I mean that she is angry at me for what I perceive to be a silly reason and so I don't feel compelled to rush after her and tell her I'm sorry. Instead I choose to ignore the situation hoping she'll get over it. I'm not rude or belittling to her, I just choose to do other things because I figure that just because she's spoiled her night I shouldn't have to spoil mine as well. I know this is selfish and I should try and work it out with her, but I find that I just don't care anymore. For the first time in our 6 years of marriage we slept apart last night. It was a new low for us but the desire to make ammends on my part just isn't there. I've been thinking about separating a lot lately and this may be the straw the breaks the camels back. Basically I just don't know what to do and wanted somewhere to express myself.

[Dravin]

I don't expect the general tenor of the opinions have changed any from this thread: http://www.lds.net/forums/marriage-relationship-advice/46146-unsure-whether-keep-marriage.html

I know this is selfish and I should try and work it out with her, but I find that I just don't care anymore.

Here is the thing, if you know it's selfish but aren't looking to do anything about it coming on the board to talk about it is kinda pointless. Generally people are going to either tell you that you need to change, in what ways you need to change, and how you can go about changing. At least as far as advice goes, there still may be catharsis or 'thinking out loud' value in posting. I may be reading you wrong, but in the previous thread you've seemed resistant to advice telling you that you need to change.

I bring this up not to try to verbally shake you and scream, "Stop being selfish!", you've received plenty of that in the other thread, but rather I suppose to bring up the question of why are you here in the advice forum?

[annewandering]

I guess its time to wonder why you dont care and why you think her anger is pointless.

[HEthePrimate]

I don't know you personally, and don't know your history, but my first impulse is to say, "Don't give up yet!" That, and "Don't panic!" Having an argument and sleeping in different rooms for the first time in six years probably don't merit separating. These things happen. Many/most/all couples have their disagreements and arguments, and if you give up now, you may miss out on all kinds of wonderful times with your wife in the future.

I'm speaking as a widower--your time with your spouse is precious! I do not miss the arguments I had with my wife, but oh, how I wish she were alive today to have an argument with! And then make up with.

Don't give up without trying hard to save your relationship. There are times when separation is warranted, or even necessary, but make darn sure this is one of those times before doing it. To quote Treebeard, "Don't be hasty!"

Good luck to you,

HEP

[SoCal_Counselor]

There is nothing wrong with showing forth humility and being the first to apologize. I suggest to many to always be the first to apologize when you and your spouse have argued. If you get into an argument with your spouse, you should still apolgize even if you were right. You may have been right in the argument, but you still mistreated your spouse by trying to force him or her to understand things the way you see them.

[Backroads]

I'm assuming the problem is the same as in the other thread, but generally speaking, is being "right" worth the price?

[skippy740]

I have some older business books I like to read. One of them talks a lot about marriage and business. Here's what it says:

Lastly, continue to ask God's help. Keep your relationships strong with your maker and I think you will enjoy a fruitful life. Your attitude will dictate the results, but I think the attitude needs God as a complement.

Remember, if the channel is low on water, it is not the fault of the stream, but of the source. If your marriage is rocky, decide that it is totally your fault. Honestly.

If you accept 100 per cent of the responsibility and pray and work diligently to make things better, they will be better. Honest effort is always rewarded.

Three days before I was married, I took a Catholic priest to dinner and asked him for some words of advice on how to have a good marriage. His answer was succinct.

"Give in to your wife 100 per cent of the time."

I bought it and I'll pass it on to you. It works.

[bl80920335]

Like you said this is more of a "thinking out loud" thing for me right now.

[Guest]

If you find yourself complaining about your wife, you haven't served her enough.

Didn't I say that in that other thread too?

I have to wonder sometimes, what do people want out of their marriages? Sugar and spice and everything nice handed to them in a silver platter while they put up their feet and bask in their greatness or something?

[Dravin]

Like you said this is more of a "thinking out loud" thing for me right now.

Might I suggest a journal? They tend not to be filled with people giving you advice when what you are trying to do is organize your thoughts. If after organization you have decided you want advice, then this subforum is a good place to be. I mention this, not to chase you off, because you're threads are going to tend to follow the trend of the last one unless your thinking leads you to a reversal of position.

[skippy740]

Like you said this is more of a "thinking out loud" thing for me right now.

What are the voices in your head telling you to do?

[bl80920335]

I understand that people are trying to help and offer pertinent advice, however, over and again there are comments like "what do people want out of their marriages? Sugar and spice and everything nice handed to them in a silver platter while they put up their feet and bask in their greatness or something", (not to point you out specifically). Any normal well adjusted individual knows that marriage isn't easy, it isn't always perfect, there are rough times, and those rough times can be worked through. But there seems to be the common idea out there that anybody who is considering divorce or separation clearly has too high of expectations regarding marriage. There was a person earlier who said "are there better men out there than my husband...definately, but would I be happier with them...no, because I chose to marry my husband", (slight paraphrasing). This seems like a defeatest attitude to me. Yes, people are ultimately responsible for their own happiness but there is no denying that others influence your happiness and that some people are conducive to you feeling it more than others, otherwise we would all be best friends and get along with everybody. I'm not looking for confirmation that divorce or separation is right, because I know it's a bad event, I just feel that the majority of people think that whomever you choose to marry is the right person for you, and if your not happy then you need to change so that you can be happy, regardless of who the spouse is, (dire circumstances aside...abuse, etc.) This viewpoint seems shortsighted and ....not naive, but very closed off.

[bl80920335]

I'm not trying to come off as bitter or vindictive because my current views aren't being validated, but as I've read mine and other threads the above stated views are the impressions i've gotten.

[Dravin]

But there seems to be the common idea out there that anybody who is considering divorce or separation clearly has too high of expectations regarding marriage.

Actually that would probably be better rendered as, "Anyone considering divorce or separation has issues that they need to work on and resolve so that their marriage can be happy and loving." And needing to work on things goes both ways, both spouses need to be involved in that process. It's just you're here and she isn't, and putting that aside it's not like you've given us anything to analyze that she might need to work on. She can't work on not being 'the right one'. The idea of too high of expectations is stemming from the idea, rightly or wrongly attributed, that it shouldn't take work or effort, that it should just happen like in the movies.

One of the biggest issues, and if it's stemming from you not wanting to bad mouth your wife I respect that, is your reasoning is, repeated, 'She's just not the right one.' Well there is no 'the right one', you come across as someone who is unhappy with their marriage because there might be someone 'better' out there rather than because there are fundamental issues that can't be worked on. To use an analogy you were given an opportunity and choose a Jeep but you're unhappy with it because there is a 1964 Ford Mustang out there somewhere, not because of anything wrong with the Jeep.

This viewpoint seems shortsighted and ....not naive, but very closed off.

It comes from the idea that the Gospel of Jesus Christ is about becoming... the perfect father, mother, husband, wife, brother, sister, son, daughter, neighbor, friend, and ultimately person. You seem to be coming from an idea that one shouldn't have to change for their spouse (and for some changes this is true) but we're coming from the idea that we need to change for our spouse, even one who can be classified as 'the right one' because until that day we are perfect there is room, and need, to improve. Now I expect we all plateau along the way, and do some backsliding, and to cap it all off it's even unachievable in this life, but the ultimate goal, the direction our boots are pointed is different than from where you appear to be coming from.

Edited May 1, 2012 by Dravin

[log2]

There is nothing wrong with showing forth humility and being the first to apologize. I suggest to many to always be the first to apologize when you and your spouse have argued. If you get into an argument with your spouse, you should still apolgize even if you were right. You may have been right in the argument, but you still mistreated your spouse by trying to force him or her to understand things the way you see them.

The poster in question has no love for his wife, and finds no joy in her company.

[Backroads]

I just feel that the majority of people think that whomever you choose to marry is the right person for you, and if your not happy then you need to change so that you can be happy, regardless of who the spouse is, (dire circumstances aside...abuse, etc.) This viewpoint seems shortsighted and ....not naive, but very closed off.

I don't think it's anywhere near naive. One's personal happiness should not be completely dependent on one's spouse. Who is naive is someone who believes the aforementioned.

[bl80920335]

I never said that one's happiness is completely dependant upon ones spouse, I was just pointing out that our choice of spouse does have a direct influence upon our happiness, otherwise, why not do arranged marriages if seemingly it doesn't matter anyway and we can all choose to be happy regardless of differences.

[SoCal_Counselor]

bl80920335,

I have read through a number of your posts and am starting to get a better understanding. I am sorry that you are not in love with your wife. When we get married, I think we expect things to go well and for us to continually develop a deeper relationship with our spouse. It seems like that may not have happened for you. Whether you made a wrong decision or not in marrying your wife, you might have hoped that things would get better. Apparently, they haven't. You continue to doubt your decision about your wife. Here are a couple of articles that might be helpful:

Before You Divorce, Part I

Before You Divorce, Part II: Impact on Children and Later Regret

Before You Divorce, Part III: Marriage Improvement and Financial Considerations

Before You Divorce, Part IV: Marriage Counseling and Conclusion

[Timpman]

Make up and make woopy.

[Dravin]

I never said that one's happiness is completely dependant upon ones spouse, I was just pointing out that our choice of spouse does have a direct influence upon our happiness, otherwise, why not do arranged marriages if seemingly it doesn't matter anyway and we can all choose to be happy regardless of differences.

Actually I'm aware of at least one scholarly study that examined arranged marriages and autonomous marriages and concluded (based on the abstract) that there were no satisfaction differences between the two groups. Now it is comparing India and the US, so there are cultural factors to consider (one would hope the study did so), but your immediate assumption that arranged marriages are less happy than self-chosen is begging the question.

Now I've not done an exhaustive review of literature, the study may be a minority or flawed position, but I suspect you've not done an exhaustive literature review either which makes the implied assumption that arranged marriages are less satisfied begging the question (well I suppose even if you had unless you're using it to support your position it'd still technically be begging the question). For the record I don't know if it is or is not the case, and on a personal level I would prefer, everything being equal, to choose my spouse.

Edited May 2, 2012 by Dravin

[log2]

It stands to reason that one is not sealed by the Holy Spirit of Promise to one whom one does not love - and that, at least, is an insuperable barrier to fulfillment.

[Guest]

Even before I had all these kids of my own, I had a whole bunch of nieces and nephews that I watched all the time. Still, it's funny how often I have to be reminded that you can't reason with a 2-year-old.

[log2]

That's not a fair analogy, Eowyn.

If you have read the Dune series, you might be familiar with the concept of the Gom Jabbar. It was a test administered to sift humans from animals, or, in other words, those who can endure pain through self-disipline as opposed to those who lack self-discipline.

Our goal should be helping all reach their potential, so that they may be fulfilled. I have given some advice to this poster in another thread, and I hope he takes it - indeed, I hope at some level he wants to be faithful to his covenants and is, on some level, looking for a way to do it. However, I have to say that a loveless marriage is a crucible and a torment that cannot be fully appreciated unless you've been there. It is a variant of the Gom Jabbar. Charity ought still to guide our approach to our brothers or sisters who may not share our perspectives or experiences.

Edited May 2, 2012 by log2

[Guest]

I have read the series, and you are romanticizing and aggrandizing selfishness. I also reject your analogy.

My marriage is wonderful, but not because it's been a piece of cake. We've gone through times where we didn't know how we would make it through and still have tender feelings for one another. But guess what? We believe in the promises we made to each other and God across the alter enough to put our toddler-esque desires for self-fulfillment aside and make it about our marriage and family. It's been worth it. It gets easier as it goes. I've been married more than twice as long as the OP, and you don't know anything about my marriage or what my husband and I have been through, so don't assume that you do.

[log2]

I have read the series, and you are romanticizing and aggrandizing selfishness. I also reject your analogy.

Have I, now? Where?

It is interesting to me - though it might not be interesting to you - that even Christ sought that the cup of the wrath of God might be turned away from him. To slap the label "selfish" on a desire to avoid pain and a desire to seek happiness seems to be a form of uncharitable trivializing of something we all share. Not everyone has as high a pain tolerance as someone else, and everyone has a different breaking point.

I've been married more than twice as long as the OP, and you don't know anything about my marriage or what my husband and I have been through, so don't assume that you do.

Have I assumed anything about your marriage?