Importance of Seeking personal Revelation: Wise Virgins

[ElectofGod]

So I came across this quote below and it stood out to me. How many of you are confident in your ability to recognize the spirit? To be able to follow it? To be able to do all things it asks us to do?

I know I am continually guided but sometimes I wonder my level of obedience and faith when I am not experiencing some major events that follow those who believe.

"Let me say to you, that many of you will see the time when you will have all the trouble, trial and persecution that you can stand, and plenty of opportunities to show that you are true to God and his work. This Church has before it many close places through which it will have to pass before the work of God is crowned with victory. To meet the difficulties that are coming, it will be necessary for you to have a knowledge of the truth of this work for yourselves. The difficulties will be of such a character that the man or woman who does not possess this personal knowledge or witness will fall. If you have not got the testimony, live right and call upon the Lord and cease not till you obtain it. If you do not, you will not stand.

The time will come when no man nor woman will be able to endure on borrowed light. Each will have to be guided by the light within himself. If you do not have it, how can you stand? Do you believe it?

How is it now? You have the First Presidency, from whom you can get counsel to guide you, and you rely upon them. The time will come when they will not be with you. Why? Because they will have to flee and hide up to keep out of the hands of their enemies. You have the Twelve now. You will not always have them, for they too will be hunted and will have to keep out of the way of their enemies. You have other men to whom you look for counsel and advice. Many of them will not be amongst you, for the same reason. You will be left to the light within yourselves. If you don't have it you will not stand; therefore seek for the testimony of Jesus and cleave unto it, that when the trying time comes you may not stumble and fall." [Orson F. Whitney, Life of Heber C. Kimball, pp.450-451]

The Events of Testimony lead to the Events of Conversion

Alma 12:10,11

10 “And therefore, he that will harden his heart, the same receiveth the lesser portion of the word; and he that will not harden his heart, to him is given the greater portion of the word, until it is given unto him to know the mysteries of God until he know them in full.

11 And they that will harden their hearts, to them is given the lesser portion of the word until they know nothing concerning his mysteries; and then they are taken captive by the devil, and led by his will down to destruction. Now this is what is meant by the chains of hell.”

Its interesting to see how we can judge how much we are on the "fence". Are we gaining new truth and knowledge daily? Is our understanding increasing?

Are we satisfied with the current state of the world?

Are we satisfied with the level of sin?

Are we satisfied with only obeying what we are commanded to do and not be guided by the spirit to do that which we are not (Alma 32 and the seed)?

Do the signs that follow those who believe occur in our own lives?

Are we satisfied with only living the law of tithing?

Have we increased our desire to sacrifice all things?

Could we do it? Even if we must be tortured (Christ), burned (Abinadi), or sawed in half by a dull sword (Isaiah), etc...

Do you know your current standing before the Lord?

Is he pleased with your current progress in life?

Is he pleased with your current standing before him and devotion to him?

Do I know where I am at in the Journey back to heavenly father and how to get to the next step?

These are questions I am constantly asking myself.

Are you seeing the signs that follow those that believe in your life? What about for those around you?

Thoughts?

[Anddenex]

Are we satisfied with the current state of the world? Are we satisfied with the level of sin?

I believe these two questions are synonymous due to the idea that the state of the world is contingent upon the level of sin within individuals, which make up communities, which make up nations and eventually the world.

All is not well in Zion, especially in Zion. To many brothers and sisters who have knowledge but do not act upon the knowledge they have.

Obviously, since I am not translated yet (yes, I know, to much your surprise), I am apart of this sin, but working on it.

Are we satisfied with only obeying what we are commanded to do and not be guided by the spirit to do that which we are not (Alma 32 and the seed)?

I would like to think I am not, and that I am truly seeking to live by "every word" which proceedeth from the mouth of God.

Do the signs that follow those who believe occur in our own lives? Are we satisfied with only living the law of tithing? Have we increased our desire to sacrifice all things?

Yes. No. Yes.

Could we do it? Even if we must be tortured (Christ), burned (Abinadi), or sawed in half by a dull sword (Isaiah), etc...

Yes. This is one simple choice. These individuals did not endure their trials as a result of chance, they endured by choice. They endured because of their love for God.

Do you know your current standing before the Lord? Is he pleased with your current progress in life? Is he pleased with your current standing before him and devotion to him?

I have not yet reached the standing before the Lord to be called his "friend" but working on it. He is pleased with some aspects, others he is probably not pleased with.

Do I know where I am at in the Journey back to heavenly father and how to get to the next step?

Thoughts?

Yes. Abraham 1: 2.

[skalenfehl]

To never be satisfied until one arrives and kneels at the feet of the Savior. It is a very lonely, solitary journey and cannot be comprehended until undertaken. It's exciting at first when His Spirit consumes you. Then It departs until you crave it and ache for It and long for It and continually endeavor to attune yourself to It. Truly it is like a parent placing a toddler at the opposite end of the room to walk back on its own two feet to the parent's loving embrace. Along the way, you lose some hope, you stumble, you sit, you mope, you even begin inching forward again, craving that wonderful Light. You must truly become like Christ with every step of the way, stripping yourself of every layer of ungodliness.

2 Nephi 7:7

7 For the Lord God will help me, therefore shall I not be confounded. Therefore have I set my face like a flint, and I know that I shall not be ashamed.

Isaiah 50:7

7 ¶For the Lord God will help me; therefore shall I not be confounded: therefore have I set my face like a flint, and I know that I shall not be ashamed.

Truly our Savior knew his path very early on and never deviated. He grew grace upon grace until the perfect day and became the prototype of a saved man. It is difficult to do likewise, to set my face like a flint, focused, determined, and unchanging and unwavering as a flawed and fallible mortal. But I am never satisfied. And I continue pressing forward until my perfect day. But I wouldn't trade what I have experienced so far for anything in the world.

[ElectofGod]

Thanks for those posts much deeper answers than I expected.

I was asking myself many of those questions sadly I couldn't answer some the way I should. Could I sacrifice the way others have? I really don't know if I could. I don't like pain ... I would like to say yes but I really don't know.

Also I don't see in my life some of the signs that follow. I have seen some but there are things I know I have not received yet that are dependent upon ones faith.

skal,

That was a great post. I just read that verse in Nephi the other day. I liked how you applied it.

I just came across this.

D&C 84:24 But they hardened their hearts and could not endure his presence; therefore, the Lord in his wrath, for his danger was kindled against them[moses people], swore that they should not enter into his rest while in the wilderness, which rest is the fulness of his glory.

That was the point of them going to the promised land to receive the greater blessings.

[ElectofGod]

andennex,

Abraham 1: 2 And, finding there was greater happiness and peace and rest for me, I sought for the blessings of the fathers, and the right whereunto I should be ordained to administer the same; having been myself a follower of brighteousness, desiring also to be one who possessed great knowledge, and to be a greater follower of righteousness, and to possess a greater knowledge, and to be a father of many nations, a prince of peace, and desiring to receive instructions, and to keep the commandments of God, I became a rightful heir, a High Priest, holding the right belonging to the fathers.

love it :) Very intriguing scripture.

[skalenfehl]

I'd like to share much more about your reply, regarding entering His rest, but I don't have much time right now... The BoM promises that we can enter into His rest now, in mortality, until we come to rest with Him later in heaven. Moroni 7 is kind of a road map. Matter of fact, I believe it's verse 3 that promises this. The Savior promises to give us rest in this life in the NT as well. For most saints, this isn't even a concept in the forefront of their minds. Alma kind of goes into detail when he's expounding the higher priesthood to the people of Ammonihah (Alma ch 12 & 13 discourse). There is so much to absorb in that chapter.

[skalenfehl]

Yes. Abraham 1: 2.

Excellent scripture! I do believe this sums up Alma 12 and 13.

[ElectofGod]

How does one know he is on the path? How does one know what he is doing is enough to get to the tree of life? Is noticing that you are being guided by the spirit enough? Are there other "signs" that follow those that believe along the path after baptism by fire (change of heart) but before one receives the greater blessings of the "more sure word of prophecy"?

Or does one just carry on hoping for the "best"?

[Anddenex]

I'd like to share much more about your reply, regarding entering His rest, but I don't have much time right now... The BoM promises that we can enter into His rest now, in mortality, until we come to rest with Him later in heaven. Moroni 7 is kind of a road map. Matter of fact, I believe it's verse 3 that promises this. The Savior promises to give us rest in this life in the NT as well. For most saints, this isn't even a concept in the forefront of their minds. Alma kind of goes into detail when he's expounding the higher priesthood to the people of Ammonihah (Alma ch 12 & 13 discourse). There is so much to absorb in that chapter.

One of the greatest revelations I have received is that Adam's intent was not to emphasize, although important, preparing to enter God's presence after death, but to enter God's presence again in this life -- while yet alive.

Adam & Eve are the only parents to actually know what it meant to be in God's presence with a body, then to be cast out of God's presence, and then again to enter his presence while living.

This was their goal from the beginning with their children... to help them see that this is the life, while living, to enter again into God's presence. We don't have to wait until death.

Truly a life changing, life thinking pattern, for me.

[Anddenex]

How does one know he is on the path? How does one know what he is doing is enough to get to the tree of life? Is noticing that you are being guided by the spirit enough? Are there other "signs" that follow those that believe along the path after baptism by fire (change of heart) but before one receives the greater blessings of the "more sure word of prophecy"?

Or does one just carry on hoping for the "best"?

Excellent questions, I personally believe, that as we seek to honor the commandments, all of them, the Lord reveals to us, in dreams, in waking visions, or simply by a still impression given to the mind and heart our standing.

Two scriptures come to my mind when I think of this question, "How does one know what he is doing is enough...?" Mosiah 4: 27, Doctrine and Covenants 101: 16.

The most spiritual men I have encountered seem to portray these two scriptures in action, they are not running faster then they have strength (they recognize the importance of the doctrine grace upon grace, line upon line and do not seek for that which they ought not yet, only that which God has given), and they have a still heart and mind. They have effectively learned to trust (something I definitely am working on).

I think Peter provides a really step-by-step, which you have discussed before. Add unto our Faith -- Virtue. If there is a lack of virtue, we have found one step. If we recognize a lack of virtue then we know we need to repent, confess and forsake. Once we have achieved a virtuous heart we know that we are able to stand confident before God and that the doctrines of the gospel will distill upon our souls.

Thus, my question I am asking myself, Am I truly a virtuous man? If not, where do I lack, then repent.

These are my initial thoughts.

[ElectofGod]

Two scriptures come to my mind when I think of this question, "How does one know what he is doing is enough...?" Mosiah 4: 27, Doctrine and Covenants 101: 16.

Amazing answers. They hit home what I have been pondering about (again this is how I know I am being led by teh spirit when it confirms scriptures I just read).

The two are:

27 And see that all these things are done in wisdom and order; for it is not requisite that a man should run faster than he has strength. And again, it is expedient that he should be diligent, that thereby he might win the prize; therefore, all things must be done in order.

Its interesting when I first became aware of the need to seek after these greater blessings I tried to do everything at once. I started to pray for dreams....Well I got 3. One of which was this exact scripture as underlined.

The other scripture in 101:

This section has had more influence on me the past few weeks. I studied 6 months ago and now it hit me again some "possible" insight. I have to explain the outline of the parable to show why before I say what that influence is. I was reading in Isaiah which I will quote later..

I will mention it because it fits. First the Lord tells us to do the following

11 Mine indignation is soon to be poured out without measure upon all nations; and this will I do when the cup of their iniquity is afull.

12 And in that day all who are found upon the watch-tower, or in other words, all mine Israel, shall be saved.

You have to be on the watch-tower yourself to be saved. Than are you considered part of Israel until than you are just a Gentile.

We know prophets are the watch towers as well... Than we read on.

Keep in mind he is talking about what Zion will be like.

18 They that remain, and are pure in heart, shall return, and come to their inheritances, they and their children, with songs of everlasting joy, to build up the waste places of Zion—

23 And prepare for the revelation which is to come, when the veil of the covering of my temple, in my tabernacle, which hideth the earth, shall be taken off, and all flesh shall see me together.

32 Yea, verily I say unto you, in that day when the Lord shall come, he shall reveal all things—

35 And all they who suffer persecution for my name [yet to come, a great trial ahead!], and endure in faith, though they are called to lay down their lives for my sake yet shall they partake of all this glory.

Zion, "the pure in heart", "The pure in heart SHALL see God" when its expedient of course.

38 And seek the face of the Lord always, that in patience ye may possess your souls, and ye shall have eternal life.

But than read what he says about those on the watch tower currently (parable)...

44 A certain nobleman had a spot of land, very choice; and he said unto his servants: Go ye unto my vineyard, even upon this very choice piece of land, and plant twelve olive trees;

45 And set watchmen round about them, and build a tower, that one may overlook the land round about, to be a watchman upon the tower, that mine olive trees may not be broken down when the enemy shall come to spoil and take upon themselves the fruit of my vineyard.

The lord warns us to make a tower, to be watchmen just like the verse quoted earlier. Those on the tower will become Israel. They will be in Zion. But notice what happens here is not quite as pictured in that one scripture.

46 Now, the servants of the nobleman went and did as their lord commanded them, and planted the olive trees, and built a hedge round about, and set watchmen, and began to build a tower.

47 And while they were yet laying the foundation thereof, they began to say among themselves: And what need hath my lord of this tower?

48 And consulted for a long time, saying among themselves: What need hath my lord of this tower, seeing this is a time of peace?

49 Might not this money be given to the exchangers? For there is no need of these things.

50 And while they were at variance one with another they became very slothful, and they hearkened not unto the commandments of their lord.

They were obedient in almost all things. They did everything than became slothful in the very last thing commanded thinking they had quite awhile left to accomplish it because its a time of peace.

51 And the enemy came by night, and broke down the hedge; and the servants of the nobleman arose and were affrighted, and fled; and the enemy destroyed their works, and broke down the olive trees.

52 Now, behold, the nobleman, the lord of the vineyard, called upon his servants, and said unto them, Why! what is the cause of this great evil?

Enemey comes by night and destroys them. The Lord calls it evil against the noblemen. The people who did not get on the watchtower.

53 Ought ye not to have done even as I commanded you, and—after ye had planted the vineyard, and built the hedge round about, and set watchmen upon the walls thereof—built the tower also, and set a watchman upon the tower, and watched for my vineyard, and not have fallen asleep, lest the enemy should come upon you?

54 And behold, the watchman upon the tower would have seen the enemy while he was yet afar off; and then ye could have made ready and kept the enemy from breaking down the hedge thereof, and saved my vineyard from the hands of the destroyer.

55 And the lord of the vineyard said unto one of his servants: Go and gather together the residue of my servants, and take ball the strength of mine house, which are my warriors, my young men, and they that are of middle age also among all my servants, who are the strength of mine house, save those only whom I have appointed to tarry;

Only those saved are those "appointed to tarry". The residue (BOM tells us a "remnant" and the "few" followers of Christ). They failed in their duty but he was merciful unto a few to still save them even though they did not become watchmen.

So we have these watchmen who will make it to Zion and a few who were permitted to tarry. Isaiah tells us this same thing.

I will add on the commentary by Avraham Gileadi.

56:10 Their watchmen are altogether blind and unaware;

all of them are but dumb watchdogs unable to bark,

lolling seers fond of slumber.

Watchmen are prophets, the prophets of God’s people. “All” of the watchmen of the Lord’s people are blind and unaware? No. But some. In chapter fifty-two, verse eight it talks about the watchmen who see eye-to-eye and lift up their voice. They see the Lord’s return to Zion. Those are the good watchmen. But there are some watchmen who are the bad watchmen; they’re not doing their job. But the watchmen, the prophets, are the highest category of society. They’re on the highest rung of society, in contrast to the foreigners and eunuchs who are on the lowest rung of society. So those on the lowest rung of society, those who have gone through humiliation and suffering, are now exalted. And these who were on the highest rung, are now humiliated and suffer. Why? Because they’re blind and unaware. Who, in the book of Isaiah, is blind? What is “blind” a word link to? “They’re blind and unaware.” That imagery is used of idolaters, in chapter forty-four: “All who manufacture idols are deranged. The things they cherish profit nothing. Those who promote them are themselves sightless and mindless to their own dismay. They have become unaware and insensible. Their eyes are glazed so they cannot see. Their minds are incapable of discernment.” That’s how people get blind and unaware. Chapter one starts off that way. The Lord’s people, in their rebellious state and wicked condition, are a nation astray. “Israel does not know. My people are insensible. A nation astray, a people weighed down by sin, offspring of wrongdoers, perverse children.” Here, prophets are also put in that category: “All of them are but dumb watchdogs, unable to bark.” A watchdog is there to warn of trouble coming. Trouble IS coming and they don’t bark. Remember what a watchman is suppose to do, in chapter twenty-one? When he sees trouble coming he is suppose to make it known. Chapter twenty-one, verse six says: “Go and appoint a watchman who will report what he sees.” Verse ten of chapter twenty-one says, “I have reported what I have heard from the Lord of Hosts.” What he sees and hears he passes on. And these watchmen are unable to do so--”Lolling seers, fond of slumber.” There’s no question that it’s talking about prophets and seers who are asleep, who need to be woken up.

Not sure that is an accurate interpretation but its very interesting.

Edited May 14, 2013 by ElectofGod

[skalenfehl]

How does one know he is on the path? How does one know what he is doing is enough to get to the tree of life? Is noticing that you are being guided by the spirit enough? Are there other "signs" that follow those that believe along the path after baptism by fire (change of heart) but before one receives the greater blessings of the "more sure word of prophecy"?

Or does one just carry on hoping for the "best"?

Nephi tells us how:

1 And now, behold, my beloved brethren, I suppose that ye ponder somewhat in your hearts concerning that which ye should do after ye have entered in by the way. But, behold, why do ye ponder these things in your hearts?

2 Do ye not remember that I said unto you that after ye had received the Holy Ghost ye could speak with the tongue of angels? And now, how could ye speak with the tongue of angels save it were by the Holy Ghost?

3 Angels speak by the power of the Holy Ghost; wherefore, they speak the words of Christ. Wherefore, I said unto you, feast upon the words of Christ; for behold, the words of Christ will tell you all things what ye should do.

4 Wherefore, now after I have spoken these words, if ye cannot understand them it will be because ye ask not, neither do ye knock; wherefore, ye are not brought into the light, but must perish in the dark.

5 For behold, again I say unto you that if ye will enter in by the way, and receive the Holy Ghost, it will show unto you all things what ye should do.

6 Behold, this is the doctrine of Christ, and there will be no more doctrine given until after he shall manifest himself unto you in the flesh. And when he shall manifest himself unto you in the flesh, the things which he shall say unto you shall ye observe to do.

The Spirit is your guide. You must attune yourself to His voice. He will tell you. You walk by faith. And when angels minister to you, you are well on your way to the veil for their words will be the words of Christ to bring you closer still.