Apollos And Paul On Being?

[Saab900man]

If you read the following:

4 For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal?

5 Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man?

6 I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase.

7 So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.

8 Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour.

1 Corinthians 3:4-6

it looks sort of like it is saying that Paul and Apollos is one being kinda like

30 I and my Father are one.

John 10:30

[Guest Yediyd]

Both of those references refer to the two people involved being one in AGREEMENT with the other. G-d the father and Jesus Christ are one ine agreement with each other and so are Paul and Apollos.

[CrimsonKairos]

I think he's pointing out that the laborers pursue the same fruit (i.e. conversion or salvation), and they are united in their efforts.

[Guest Yediyd]

I think he's pointing out that the laborers pursue the same fruit (i.e. conversion or salvation), and they are united in their efforts.

Yeah, what HE said!!!!!

[Saab900man]

Both of those references refer to the two people involved being one in AGREEMENT with the other. G-d the father and Jesus Christ are one ine agreement with each other and so are Paul and Apollos.

I think he's pointing out that the laborers pursue the same fruit (i.e. conversion or salvation), and they are united in their efforts.

Thats my point

[CrimsonKairos]

And a sharp one it is too. B)

[Guest Yediyd]

OUCH!!!!! CK, watch where you're pointing that thing!!!!!!

[TimA.]

I think it does mean that they are one in purpose like was said. I have thought for sometime though that there might be a deeper layer there too. Jesus prayed in John 17 that we might be one as He and His Father are one. That we might be one in them. He also refered to Himself as the vine and us the branches and that apart from teh vine we can not abide. It is Christ that literally makes us alive or lends us breath as King Benjamin said. I have wondered if maybe we are not in a sense part of God but have been made agents over a portion of God's power. He said what we do to the least of His bretheren we do to Him. If I damage a branch of a tree I have damaged the tree.

Here are some verses I have pondered along these lines. I would live to hear your thoughts of these verses and what we really are.

Tim

DC 88: 47-50 Behold, all these are kingdoms, and any man who hath seen any or the least of these hath seen God moving in his majesty and power.

48 I say unto you, he hath seen him; nevertheless, he who came unto his own was not comprehended.

49 The light shineth in darkness, and the darkness comprehendeth it not; nevertheless, the day shall come when you shall comprehend even God, being quickened in him and by him.

50 Then shall ye know that ye have seen me, that I am, and that I am the true light that is in you, and that you are in me; otherwise ye could not abound.

[CrimsonKairos]

That parable of D&C 88 (the various servants being visited by their Lord) deals with the handiwork of God, not our essence. The "kingdoms" in D&C 88 are identified as stars and planets. In fact, let me reproduce my comments elsewhere about this. I don't think it has anything to do with us sharing God's essence or anything:

EARLIER POST OF MINE

Let's establish context to determine what the "kingdoms" are that the parable in verses 51-61 talks about.

D&C 88

v. 36 "All kingdoms have a law given;"

vv. 42-43 "And again, verily I say unto you, he hath given a law unto all things, by which they move in their times and their seasons;"

"And their courses are fixed, even the courses of the heavens and the earth, which comprehend the earth and all the planets."

vv. 45-47 "The earth rolls upon her wings, and the sun giveth his light by day, and the moon giveth her light by night, and the stars also give their light, as they roll upon their wings in their glory, in the midst of the power of God."

"Unto what shall I liken these kingdoms, that ye may understand?"

"Behold, all these are kingdoms, and any man who hath seen any or the least of these hath seen God moving in his majesty and power."

v.51 "Behold, I will liken these kingdoms unto a man having a field, and he sent forth his servants into the field to dig in the field."

Verse 36 says all kingdoms have a law given. Verses 42-43 say that all things have a law given to them, and defines "all things" as the heavens and the earth which include "all the planets." Syllogism time:

1. All kingdoms have a law given to them;

2. The heavens and the planets have laws given to them; therefore...

3. The heavens and planets are considered "kingdoms."

Verses 45-47 establish beyond dispute the fact that the heavens and planets are "kingdoms." How? Verse 45 lists the earth, the sun, the moon and the stars. Then verse 46 asks what to liken "these kingdoms" to. Then verse 47 seals the deal by saying that "all these are kingdoms."

Finally, verse 51 answers the question posed in verse 46. The Lord likens "these kingdoms" (which include the heavens and planets) to a field with twelve servants sent out to dig (v. 51). Verses 52-57 explain that the lord of the field told each servant he would visit the first servant for one hour, and then move on to visit the next servant for an hour, until he had visited all twelve servants.

v. 58: "And thus they all received the light of the countenance of their lord, every man in his hour, and in his time, and in his season—"

What do the twelve men in the parable represent? Verse 61 is almost an exact copy of verse 58 except in place of the word "man" it says "kingdom," as here:

v. 61: "Therefore, unto this parable I will liken all these kingdoms, and the inhabitants thereof—every kingdom in its hour, and in its time, and in its season, even according to the decree which God hath made."

This verse teaches several significant things. First, it mentions that "these kingdoms" have inhabitants. This would suggest that among the "kingdoms" which are the heavens and the planets, there are planets with their own inhabitants, distinct from our planet and its inhabitants. Second, it says that the Lord will visit each of these "kingdoms" separately for a specific period of time, just like the lord of the field in the parable visited each servant separately for one hour.

Conclusion? I believe that just as Jesus visited the Nephites after his resurrection, he will personally visit all other "kingdoms" and their inhabitants, according to the pattern in the parable. Gives new meaning to, "And other sheep I have which are not of this fold, and them also I must visit..."

the_jason: You said: "Heavenly Father said he created this world in the same manner as other worlds prior. If those worlds were just like this world then they would have had to have a Savior just as we did. I'm sure it was not the same as our Savior. They would have had their own."

I disagree. I think the symbolism in the parable I just discussed includes the following:

The field = God's kingdom as a whole, His "stewardship" if you will;

Twelve servants = The various "kingdoms" or planets (whether twelve or twelve million) with their inhabitants.

I believe Heavenly Father administers salvation to His spiritual progeny alone. Since the inhabitants of the other planets or "kingdoms" are within God's "field" or stewardship, it follows that those inhabitants are among His spirit children. As such, these other inhabitants--as God's children--would still be covered by Christ's atonement.

God didn't gather everyone together premortally and say, "Okay, for planet x I propose Jesus serve as its Savior. Planet y...hmmm...it should have a different savior...any recommendations?"

Jesus is the Savior of all of God's spiritual children, past, present and yet to be born. There is no need for a different savior for each "kingdom" or planet. Christ's atonement is infinite and eternal, encompassing the heavens and the planets with all their inhabitants.

[valkator]

Not sure if there is any connection here, but Apollo is the sun god -- just as Yahweh, formerly called Baal (designating the sun god in the age of Taurus), is the changed Hebrew derivative of the Egyptian Iao - again a 'sun god'. Yahushua - the hebrew name for 'Jesus' means -'Yahweh Saves' -- or the 'sun god' saves. Where 'Paul' fits into this may be related to some speculations I've come across that suggest the figure of Paul and the figure of Jesus were the same person...

[Dr T]

...Yahweh, formerly called Baal...

Watch out for the lightning bolts coming dow from that. Baal we know as a false god.

[valkator]

The name Baal became 'false' when the name was changed...sort of like saying 'you need to keep up with the 'times, Dr. T.' :)

[Dr T]

No Vinny. In Kings I think they challenge Baal to a test of starting a fire. Water was poured all over and God still set it aflame. Baal did not. Don't confuse the two.

[CrimsonKairos]

Originally, Baal was a title applied to God.

When pagans started calling their gods by it, it was abandoned as a valid title of God.

[valkator]

No Vinny. In Kings I think they challenge Baal to a test of starting a fire. Water was poured all over and God still set it aflame. Baal did not. Don't confuse the two.

I'm not the same person as Vinny, Dr. T.

Anyhow, the story is metaphorical and allegorical to a change in the sun's (hence the name of 'god' changes) processional position through the houses of the zodiac. Do you know why 'Baal' couldn't start the fire? It has to do with the position of the sun in the zodiac. 'Baal' couldn't start a fire because 'he' wasn't located in his former position vis-a-vis the zodiac. 'He' became false at that point and many 'pagans' continued to worship this 'false' god. Baal was the name of 'god' used in this geographic area while the sun was located in the House of Taurus (which, also explains why Moses found the lagging-behind Israelites STILL worshipping the 'golden calf' - Baal - god still associated with the previous cycle name, position, and imagery), while Iao/Yahweh/Jahovah was the 'new name' in the 'new processional age' located in the House of Aries. It's a bit more complicated than that and doesn't mean that the 'sun' was being honored and worshipped as some imply in their seeing this relationship. However, the name difference and change has nothing to do with a 'false god' in the sense you are suggesting. The actual 'being 'associated with the names Baal and Yahweh is one and same.

[Dr T]

Sorry for my error Valkator.

[valkator]

Some articles for further exploration of the 'connection' between 'Jesus', 'Paul', and 'Apollonius of Tyana' within the context of the creation of 'Christianity'... :)

Apollonius, Jesus and Paul: Men or Myths?

Origins of the New Testament

Dark Side of the Sun