Seventy Times Seven

[jhansen6]

so seventy times seven is how often we are to forgive (Mathew 18) : that's not a problem. But what if you have had to ask for forgiveness for something multiple times. What if you have made the same mistake AGAIN and don't have the faith, resolve, or even the desire to try again. Repenting once more when you know you will make the same error in just a little while is NOT genuine repentance. So how do you become genuine in repentance?

[sixpacktr]

You gave it away with the word "desire". If you don't feel that you need to repent, then you're right, it does you no good. You must desire to repent, to want to sin no more, knowing full well you might.

Repentance is all about attitude, not necessarily works. J. Golden Kimball said something along the lines of "the Church can't kick me out, I repent too damn fast" or something like that. But the reasoning is correct. Repentance is a desire to never do it again. Read Mosiah 5, and the effects of King Benjamin's speech on the people.

Good golly, if the Lord were holding a tally sheet and we only got one chance on every sin to repent, and if we did it again, no matter how sorry we were, we couldn't be forgiven, the CK would be a very lonely place.

[Gwen]

so seventy times seven is how often we are to forgive (Mathew 18) : that's not a problem. But what if you have had to ask for forgiveness for something multiple times. What if you have made the same mistake AGAIN and don't have the faith, resolve, or even the desire to try again. Repenting once more when you know you will make the same error in just a little while is NOT genuine repentance. So how do you become genuine in repentance?

sounds like satan is feeding you some of his most classic lines.

well, you messed up. sure the lord says if you never stop trying he will never give up. but come on, how long do you think he will watch you keep messing it up. you know you are just going to mess it up again so why try? why repent one more time? it's not real repentance anyway, you never really repented the first time, if you had you wouldn't have slipped up and done it again. you didn't have a change of heart, you didn't really want to stop, it was just lip service, if you try to repent again you are just condeming yourself. don't try. better yet, you aren't worthy to talk to the lord about this. you have mocked him with your "repenting" attempts. you have to get this 100% under control all by yourself before you can even show your face in chruch again. why bother? you will never be perfect. you are wasteing the lord's time, tisk tisk. he's not gonna love you anymore if you keep this up............blah blah blah blah blah.....

any of that sound familiar? i know they are lines he's used with me a thousand times. one of his greatest tools is to pit us against ourselves. make us doubt the lord's promises. make us doubt our streangth. get us to quit trying. i agree with six that desire is an important element in repenting. the lord knows our hearts. if we really are trying every time, then all of those attempts and the courage to never give up to keep trying is in our favor.

another thing to consider on the road to figuring out how to employ true repentance is that of how are you going about it. i think insanity is defined as doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. don't let this drive you crazy. if the way you went about it the first time (or the first 10 times) didn't work don't keep doing that same thing. try something new. take it to the lord, let him know how hard you are trying, how it's driving you crazy to keep messing this up, ask him to help you find the path out of this that will work. reasearch others accounts of similar issues and how they overcame it. what worked for them? have you tried that?

overcomming substance abuse comes to mind. first time they may try to do it alone, i can kick this by myself attitude. if they can't do it alone how many times should they try that before they realize they can't? if that is all they ever try they will never kick the addiction and destroy themselves in the process. accounts from others experiances show that one most likely needs support to overcome such addictions. instead of giving up they should start again, with a support group this time. may mess up again, so evaluate it, what could have been done better? maybe the meetings weren't enough, maybe they need a sponser, someone there at any time of day or night to walk them through weak moments........... one try after another till it works. evaluate each "failed" attempt and figure out what can make your efforts more effective. ask the lord to help you evaluate, ask him to help you come up with the new plan. if you don't give up on you and he won't give up on you.

i know when satan starts in on me with those lines i end up left with a choice to make. listen and take the easy road of depression and discouragment to self distruction. or to start doing something new to find what it is i'm looking for. takes work, not the easiest road, but it's the right road. personally i can be a bit dense at times and start down the easy road for a bit till something or someone gives me that swift kick in the rear i need to snap out of it. lol

something that just jumped into my head. having to repent over and over and over is something the lord expects we will have to do. he not only expected it but created a way that we could and would be reminded we should. we take the sacrament every week for a reason. we are given that chance to evaluate, repent, and start in on the next week with a new resolve. he knows we need him at least every seven days. the sacrament is for everyone, not just those that need it. we aren't told you don't have to take the sacrament if you didn't mess up this last week. we aren't told that cause there isn't a person on this earth that doesn't need it every week. nobody gets through a week without messing something up. and when we've messed up so bad that we feel or are told we shouldn't partake? that time is a chance to be reminded. re-evaluate what's been going on the last week. make a plan for the next week to make it better. set the goals needed to be able to partake again. this should be something on our minds on a regular basis, at the minimum a weekly basis.

[Gabelma]

so seventy times seven is how often we are to forgive (Mathew 18) : that's not a problem. But what if you have had to ask for forgiveness for something multiple times. What if you have made the same mistake AGAIN and don't have the faith, resolve, or even the desire to try again. Repenting once more when you know you will make the same error in just a little while is NOT genuine repentance. So how do you become genuine in repentance?

I know that sometimes I have started the repentance process and prayer with Heavnly Father don't know if I can kick this, but I know that thou wants me too, I need thy help. But like my husband says the moment we get baptised all Latter Day Saints become hypocrites as we strive for perfection.

For me I find remembering that every time I sin I hurt the saviour and I play a part in the atonement every time I sin helps with my repentance

Charley

[prisonchaplain]

I knew a fellow who said he struggled with a particular sin for 15 years. Every night he would repent, every day he would stumble again. Finally, after 15 years, God gave him victory, and he was delivered from the struggle.

Most of us would have condemned him long before that 15 years was up. Today, he is a leader in his church.

When I forgive someone, I give him/her over to God. I withdraw my right to offense. If repentence is sincere, then I have been an agent in a soul being reconciled to the Heavenly Father. If there is no repentence, then God will be a far more thorough reeper of justice than I could ever hope to be.

[Dr T]

P.C.,

Do you think that when God forgives, he remembers that old sin or blocks it out forever? Like in that example you gave, did God keep thinking, "Oh, you did it again!" in diappointment or "Oh man that hurts" as a new sin every time?

[prisonchaplain]

P.C.,

Do you think that when God forgives, he remembers that old sin or blocks it out forever? Like in that example you gave, did God keep thinking, "Oh, you did it again!" in diappointment or "Oh man that hurts" as a new sin every time?

When God "forgets" my thought is that He has truly, completely, and absolutely forgiven the sin. On the other hand, God does not have memory blanks. This particular individual, at the time, believed in "once saved always saved." He later said, "I'm no longer sure of that doctrine, but it sure did save me." In other words, he would have given up, otherwise.

Ironically, rather than viewing God as an occasional amnesiac, what allows him to continue to forgive is his foreknowledge of the eventual victory. God knew the man would make it. And, I'm sure there were consequences. Christian sinning is terrible, because you know it's wrong and cannot enjoy the sin, yet the relationship with God is also strained.

[Dr T]

Thank you for your thoughts Sir. :)

[Guest Yediyd]

Seven is the number of holy covenent, 8 is the number of completion, but seven is the number of G-d. In PSalms 77 The lord has sworn an oath, by his right hand. There are 14 knuckles in a hand. 14 is double 7's. Twice the sacred number of Holy covenent. In Matt Chap.1, there are 14 generations from Abraham to David, 14 from David to exile, 14 from exile to Christ. The number of the strong hand of G-d The fullfillment of prophesy. There are 14 letters in the Hebrew name for David. Christ is the fullfillment of prophecy. The establishment of David's eternal kingdom. There are 7 colors in a rainbow. 7 is the number of covenent. 14 is double 7, twice the oath. The Lord has sevened himself, means that he has swore by his right hand. He has made an oath.

Until 70 x 7...means : eternal! NEVER stop forgiving. Seven yourself.

Just my opinion.

...and something I need to really work on in my own life...

I need to seven myself.

[Dr T]

Good one Yediyd

[Guest Yediyd]

Good one Yediyd

Thank you...as you can see...I have really thought and studied about forgiveness...it is the sin wich doth so easily beset me!!!

From my childhood on...I have struggled with forgiveness.

[Dr T]

...it is the sin wich doth so easily beset me!!!

Great line Yed :)

[Guest Yediyd]

...it is the sin wich doth so easily beset me!!!

Great line Yed :)

I stole it from Paul.

[Dr T]

I love Paul. He was a start!

[Guest Yediyd]

I love Paul. He was a start!

My favorite thing Paul wrote is Romans 7...I identify!!

[Dr T]

He wrote some great things, interacted in a strong way and called brothers on the carpet. Raised well, educated, status, and was hard core. Killer and follower, etc.

[Guest Yediyd]

He wrote some great things, interacted in a strong way and called brothers on the carpet. Raised well, educated, status, and was hard core. Killer and follower, etc.

He was half Roman and half Jewish...he was a STRONG man and he had Roman rights...he was a good warrior!!!

[Dr T]

He had a litany of accomplishments/designations. He was a mans man.

[Guest Yediyd]

He had a litany of accomplishments/designations. He was a mans man.

Yep.

[Dr T]

Yep yep (couldn't resist)

[prisonchaplain]

Look, both of you just calm down. ... I'll take the last word. :-)

[Dr T]

hahahahahahahahahahhahahaha. Your great PC!

[Guest Yediyd]

hahahahahahahahahahhahahaha. Your great PC!

See? And I wasn't going to respond...I was going to let my buddy PC HAVE tha last word...but since you tried to get it...my female came over me!!!

[Dr T]