Elphaba's Experience With Stewardship

[rosie321]

"feelings have been hurt."

The polite LDS way of saying get over it. Get in step.

I had defied God.

However, once, there, every waking moment was filled with terror that God was angry with me, that I had ruined my life, that I was going to be punished, that I had given up my chances for a husband and family, that the things I wanted in my life were going to be denied me, by God, because I had defied him.

That is the heart of the matter here. LDS who question authority are made to feel that they have defied God. This whole area can be an issue for converts or those who have experienced an abuse of priesthood power. Which is obvious in this case

I mean that he should have apologized 32 years ago. That would have gone a long way in helping me to heal from the trauma that he personally caused me.

As far as forgiving him, I'm not sure I do. I don't think about it often, and it hasn't had any effect on my life since those few months, other than helping me wake up and see that things weren't always what I thought they were, and I see that as a good thing.

But I don't feel I'm under any obligation to forgive him, and frankly, when I think back on it, I don't.

For your own sake you need to forgive him. There is an obligation to forgive all men. On the cross Christ even forgave those who crucified Him saying "Father forgive them they know not what they do" To a degree I think you have moved on and it is not continually on the forefront. You see both sides now and can take it more in context.

But for your own sake you need to be open to forgiveness despite the trauma that was caused or the fact that an apology was never issued.

I will forget about it once more

Is it possible? Wouldn't you rather a healing that would help you "remember the pains no more?" This experience you have had could be used to assist others in a loving and forgiving heart.

Your statements here concern me a lot.

I truly don't think it will benefit you in the long run. Use this situation for yours and others good. Don't let it become a destructive force. Stating here that you won't forgive seems self destructive in the long run.

As was pointed out in another post the priesthood holder should probably not have said anything. He was stepping out of place. But do you really think he did it out of maliciousness? Your mom came to him and asked him to speak to you. He probably wanted to help (let a little pride in) and asserted an option that works well for many others. You knew differently inside and felt that same different feeling inside afterward. Yes he did come on strongly but you knew inside what was right for you despite that. Don't let anger over this mans attempts destroy you by a stated unwillingness to forgive. There is much better in store for you than that.

As far as forgiving him, I'm not sure I do. I don't think about it often, and it hasn't had any effect on my life since those few months, other than helping me wake up and see that things weren't always what I thought they were, and I see that as a good thing.

But I don't feel I'm under any obligation to forgive him, and frankly, when I think back on it, I don't.

[Elphaba]

Well, it's been over 30 years, perhaps you should try forgiveness and move on, realizing that your salvation is dependent on you, not others. This whole anger at others for what they may have said and done long ago only works for so long, then you need to get on with life.

Wait a minute. Your last post said I'm supposed to be angry at my mother. This post I'm not. My head's spinning.

You're not hearing me about this.

I don't ever think about this. Strawberry's post reminded me of it, so I wrote about it. I don't carry anger about it with me, I can't even remember how many times I've thought about it in the last thirty years. There's really nothing to "move on" from.

Your Patriarch had an office? Lucky! My dad just used our living room for all his Patriarch duties. Patriarchs don't have offices in church buildings.

You know you're right. I did go to his home. When I said "office," it seems like it was just a small room, but it really could have been any room. But I know it wasn't a church building.

Elphaba

[rosie321]

As far as forgiving him, I'm not sure I do. I don't think about it often, and it hasn't had any effect on my life since those few months, other than helping me wake up and see that things weren't always what I thought they were, and I see that as a good thing.

Additionally, my mother could not have forced the patriarch to lie. Even if she did tell him some farcical story, it was still his decision to lie to me. Are you saying she told him to say God had talked to him about me? Even if that were true, his still had his agency, and could have, and should have, said no. Obviously, he made that choice to lie to me. Why are you so wont to let this man off for his sin?

Having said that, there is something to what you say, and I cannot really talk about it here. I can tell you my mother is a fanatic, and has never been one to care about her children as individuals with wants and desires of their own. She sees them in terms of fitting the Mormon mold or not, and if they're not, they're in the hands of Satan, literally. So, if you can look at her from a loving point of view (which I do not always do), she really was trying to save me. (I am being very generous right now. I rarely feel this way. But it is the truth.)

Also, my father had recently committed suicide. I only tell you his means of death to show you the insanity I came from. And it wasn't over because my mother was still there. That's where this 19 year old came from who walked into this patriarch's office and was told God had a message for her.

Its heartbreaking to think of the hurt that was caused to you and what you were going through at the time and that someone couldn't have been there for you.

But I don't feel I'm under any obligation to forgive him, and frankly, when I think back on it, I don't.

[/quote[ Despite that I think for your own good you need to forgive and draw close to the example of Christ for the healing. pray. They know the hurt and pain life can bring and can guide you individually to the healing that your heart so desperately needs. They can take your sorrows and turn them to joy. Just give them a chance.

In my prayers sister

[Elphaba]

In my prayers sister

Thank you Rosie. :)

Elphie

[StrawberryFields]

I don't ever think about this. Strawberry's post reminded me of it, so I wrote about it. I don't carry anger about it with me, I can't even remember how many times I've thought about it in the last thirty years. There's really nothing to "move on" from.

Elphaba

Elphaba,

Sorry to have stirred up these memories but it is good to look back and see things like this with adult eyes.

I believe that you needed the board to get this out so you posted this. I also believe that you are past this.

[Elphaba]

Sorry to have stirred up these memories but it is good to look back and see things like this with adult eyes.

I believe that you needed the board to get this out so you posted this. I also believe that you are past this.

Thank you Strawberry. That is exactly how I feel as well. Thank you for understanding.

Elphaba

[Adomini22]

Thanx for sharing that experience. The patriarch was out of his line of authority. And he cant say or command you to do anything without you getting the confirmation of the spirit to yourself. I feel sorry that this had occurred. I do agree with some of the threads about Utah Mormons and other mormons, I know its a generalization, but the majority of the generalization is true. On a last note, the fact that you defend yourself against Snow without blowing your lid is awesome. Dont let him get under your skin. Blowing smoke, darling, blowing smoke.........

[Snow]

<div class='quotemain'>Egads woman. Grow a spin{sic}.

Since I am able to stand upright with no help, it's obvious I have a spin[e]. What makes you think otherwise?

Why play stupid? Is the victim angel wearing out already?

Is is not obvious that you have a spine - just the opposite. You pretend that some horrid deed had been done when in fact, all you got was some counsel you disagreed with.

Additionally, if you go back and read my initial post you will not find any reference to Charles Manson. (Hint: Strawman arguments detract from your credibility.)

I doubt that you are stupid, but there is no doubt that you play games, the dumb game, the victim game. You're very manipulative but your very clumsy at it. Duh - yes El, I know you didn't say 'Charles Mason' you just said heinous and immoral.

Cowering and accepting a man's horrid behavior, and saying nothing was being a victim. Thinking I deserved an apology is not.

Oh - now the truth comes out. You did think he was wrong. In what possible way did you harm you enough that now years later you call the man all sorts of names and act like it was a tramatic event?

You're just a drama queen you blames other people for her sorry lot.

Grow a spine woman.

[Adomini22]

SNOW!!! Grow up yourself. She is just saying that the man did wrong....which, by authority alone, he did! Was it so traumatic? no.... no one saying it is. Holy cow, man, you keep digging youself a hole here, and its embarrasing.

[Snow]

<div class='quotemain'>2. People who use stupid modifiers like "heinous" and "immoral" to describe others who may or may not have made a mistake but are certainly serving out of the goodness of their hearts.

I realize you didn't write this to me, but if you would indulge me for a moment I would really appreciate it.

You said that a man, telling a 19-year-old girl that God had prompted him to tell her what she should do when in fact God did no such thing is a mere "mistake"?

You really don't see anything immoral about this, whether he was serving out of the goodness of his heart or not?

Elphaba

First - I don't think that you are an accurate reporter of reality. You play games and feed off your own hyped drama. If someone were to act the gentleman what had happened, I'd lay odds that he would have seen it differently - he certainly wouldn't have pretended that you victimized him.

Second - if he did give you bad counsel I, an adult, wouldn't cry and moan that he was some kind of monster. If I disagreed with him, I'd reject the counsel and do what I believed to be right. I was a normal 19 year old. I know how I acted. I wasn't any more of a victim then than I am now. I might tell a few jokes about him. I might mention his bad counsel to my bishop, but I wouldn't be holding deperately on to the horrid offense decades later.

[Adomini22]

And Elph is??? Um, you might actually want to read these posts, cause that aint the case. (embarrasing...)

[Elphaba]

First - I don't think that you are an accurate reporter of reality. You play games and feed off your own hyped drama.

How so?

If someone were to act the gentleman what had happened, I'd lay odds that he would have seen it differently - he certainly wouldn't have pretended that you victimized him.

I'm not exactly sure what you meant to say here since you didn't take the time to write your sentence clearly.

As far as him pretending that I had victimized him, why would he? I hadn't.

Second - if he did give you bad counsel I, an adult, wouldn't cry and moan that he was some kind of monster. If I disagreed with him, I'd reject the counsel and do what I believed to be right. I was a normal 19 year old. I know how I acted. I wasn't any more of a victim then than I am now. I might tell a few jokes about him. I might mention his bad counsel to my bishop, but I wouldn't be holding deperately on to the horrid offense decades later.

I never said he was a monster. Otherwise, thank you for sharing that.

Elphaba

[Snow]

SNOW!!! Grow up yourself. She is just saying that the man did wrong....which, by authority alone, he did! Was it so traumatic? no.... no one saying it is. Holy cow, man, you keep digging youself a hole here, and its embarrasing.

I find the whole whining and victim representation and attacks on a patriarch to be absurd. You go right ahead and be embarrassed.

While you're at it, you might go back and read the thread. Contrary to what you claim, the OP is claiming tha the whole affair WAS traumatic - she said heinous, immoral, unrighteous, that she was shaking, couldn't breath, his advice could have destroyed part of her life, horrid very traumatizing.

You'd think she had been kidnapped by the Symbionese Liberation Army and forced to rob banks, or forced to sit though a showing of the musical Wicked.

[Adomini22]

At the time was it traumatizing? Well, let Elph tell ya. it was her experience. But I dont think it shakes her up anymore.... Anywayz, all that was said about her reaction was said. It is written, and we all see it. The only question I ask you Snow, is if you took your medication today......

[Snow]

<div class='quotemain'>First - I don't think that you are an accurate reporter of reality. You play games and feed off your own hyped drama.

How so?

More of the stupid act. How so? Read your overhyped drama that you're still rolling in decades later.

I'm not exactly sure what you meant to say here since you didn't take the time to write your sentence clearly.

Oh please - change the act to ask.;

As far as him pretending that I had victimized him, why would he? I hadn't.

Nor he you. He just gave you counsel you disagreed with. There is no evidence it was even the wrong counsel. It's obvious that what you are doing to him (at least it's anonymous) is far worse than what he is supposedly did to you.

You are telling the whole world that he was immoral, heinous, and unrighteous

I never said he was a monster. Otherwise, thank you for sharing that.

Elphaba

No - just heinous, immoral, unrighteous, blah blah, vapidly blah. Say, can we hear again how you were so superior to all the other BYU undergrads?

At the time was it traumatizing? Well, let Elph tell ya. it was her experience. But I dont think it shakes her up anymore.... Anywayz, all that was said about her reaction was said. It is written, and we all see it. The only question I ask you Snow, is if you took your medication today......

Oh - that's clever. You are a clever girl.

Did you mow your dichondra today?

[Elphaba]

Is is not obvious that you have a spine - just the opposite. You pretend that some horrid deed had been done when in fact, all you got was some counsel you disagreed with.

No, it was not just "some counsel."

I know you didn't say 'Charles Mason' you just said heinous and immoral.

Good. You won't make that mistake again.

Oh - now the truth comes out. You did think he was wrong.

Did you write this sentence correctly? I've said from the very begining I think what he did was wrong.

In what possible way did you harm you enough that now years later you call the man all sorts of names and act like it was a tramatic event?

I know this will be difficult for you, because I've noticed you rarely do this, but go back and read my posts. I've already answered your question. And by read my posts, I mean actually read every word.

You're just a drama queen you blames other people for her sorry lot.

How so?

Grow a spine woman.

Hmm. Don't these bony protrusions in my back indicate I have one?

Elphaba

[Snow]

If you are going to say nothing of substance, at least try someone pithy.

[Adomini22]

Snow, you are a on a roll....down the hill...in the hole.....going deeper.....still rolling....and attacking.....

[Elphaba]

More of the stupid act. How so? Read your overhyped drama that you're still rolling in decades later.

Go back and read my posts, word for word, and you'll have the answer to that. Remember, word for word.

There is no evidence it was even the wrong counsel.

Yes there is. From my branch president. According to him, God would never have "prompted" this patriarch to say anything to me, because I was not in his stake, and therefore he did not have stewardship over me.

It's obvious that what you are doing to him (at least it's anonymous) is far worse than what he is supposedly did to you.

If he's anonymous how is what I'm doing hurting him? You've built yet another strawman. From now on I'm going to respond to these with "Strawman," so I don't have to waste time typing an explanation. You'll know what I mean.

No - just heinous, immoral, unrighteous, blah blah, vapidly blah. Say, can we hear again how you were so superior to all the other BYU undergrads?

I never said I was superior to them.

Elphaba

[Snow]

No - just heinous, immoral, unrighteous, blah blah, vapidly blah. Say, can we hear again how you were so superior to all the other BYU undergrads?

I never said I was superior to them.

Elphaba

More with the stupid act, You said "...I was light years ahead of these giggle pusses. They were constantly sniggering, uninterested in school, boy crazy, and obviously there for their "MRS" degree. They acted as if they were still in high school, and I couldn't relate to them at all... At BYU I felt as if I had been plunged into a bottomless lake of vapidness."

I understood exactly what you intended to convey. You mature, them immature. You bright, them infinitely vapid. You interested in knowledge, them not.

With this stupid game, you sure don't sound like a lawyer. What kind of law do you practice anyway?

[StrawberryFields]

This thread was start by Elphaba to voice her opinion on something which happened to her.

I think that has been accomplished and now it has come to attacking which is against LDS Talk Rules.

This thread needs to be closed.

Sorry folks, if you want to start a new thread then go ahead.