Alleged Joseph Smith Quote

[JojoBag]

I'm trying to a quote alleged by Joseph Smith regarding WWIII.  I was told it by another person about, but he could not provide a source.  It goes like this:  WWIII will be short and will be fought primarily in the air and under the sea.

 

Does anyone have any information on this or can provide a source?

[Guest]

As the first two world wars were way after his time, why would he address WWIII specifically? 

[mirkwood]

I've read it before.  I seem to recall giving it no credibility.  I'll post it here if I locate it again.

[Guest MormonGator]

Joseph accurately predicated the civil war, that's for sure. He even gave pretty specific information about it.  

[mirkwood]

I don't think this one is allegedly from Joseph.  I think it was a later prophet. 

[Anddenex]

John Taylor's prophecy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9nVvLS8jtqk

 

Also, might this be white horse prophecy attributed to Joseph Smith?

[mirkwood]

No, it is a different one.  The WHP is false.

 

The ridiculous story about the "red horse," and "the black horse," and "the white horse," and a lot of trash that has been circulated about and printed and sent around as a great revelation given by the Prophet Joseph Smith, is a matter that was gotten up, I understand, some ten years after the death of the Prophet Joseph Smith, by two of our brethren who put together some broken sentences from the Prophet that they may have-heard him utter from time to time, and formulated this so called revelation out of it, and it was never spoken by the prophet in the manner in which they have out it forth. It is simply false: that is all there is to it. (Joseph F. Smith, Conference Report, October 1918, p.58.)

[JojoBag]

No, it is a different one.  The WHP is false.

 

The ridiculous story about the "red horse," and "the black horse," and "the white horse," and a lot of trash that has been circulated about and printed and sent around as a great revelation given by the Prophet Joseph Smith, is a matter that was gotten up, I understand, some ten years after the death of the Prophet Joseph Smith, by two of our brethren who put together some broken sentences from the Prophet that they may have-heard him utter from time to time, and formulated this so called revelation out of it, and it was never spoken by the prophet in the manner in which they have out it forth. It is simply false: that is all there is to it. (Joseph F. Smith, Conference Report, October 1918, p.58.)

 

The key to Joseph F. Smith's statement is "it was never spoken by the prophet in the manner in which they have out it forth."  Joseph Fielding Smith speculated in a general conference that the writers of the "prophecy" heard a series of utterances by Joseph Smith and wrote them down 50 years later.  However, that does not mean that Joseph did not utter some of the alleged prophecies.  I did an analysis of the White Horse Prophecy and there are a number of things that did come true.  Take for example the statements regarding Turkey and the Democrat-Republican party.  It split in 1858  becoming our present day Democrats and Republicans.  The Independent party came into being in 1967.  The Ottoman Empire was defeated in 1917.

 

The part where America will spend its strength warring in foreign lands.  Just since WWII, the U.S. has been involved in over 150 police actions and minor brush wars.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_United_States_military_operations  Then the part about the military leaders saying, "Brethren, we are glad you have come.  Hence forth send us men who can talk to God."  Obama is purging the military of Christians, "men who can talk to God."  The statements that America will be invaded by a foreign power and the Constitution hanging by a thread were repeated by other prophets and apostles.

 

I agree that not all of the White Prophecy is true, but there are things that have already been fulfilled.  It makes me wonder what else will come true.

[mirkwood]

 

It is simply false: that is all there is to it.

 

 

I guess you missed the last sentence.

[JojoBag]

I guess you missed the last sentence.

 

Then why did part of that prophecy come true?  Pure coincidence?  You shouldn't believe in coincidences as a former cop.  I also remember part of the Joseph Fielding Smith's statement, which will take me a bit to dig up.  I would consider it a clarification of his father's statement.

[mirkwood]

I'm not a former cop.

 

Truth is often intermixed with the false.  Nostradamus got some stuff right too.  Are we looking to him now as well?

[JojoBag]

I'm not a former cop.

 

Truth is often intermixed with the false.  Nostradamus got some stuff right too.  Are we looking to him now as well?

 

Sorry about that.  I thought you were former law enforcement.  I was a cop for 13 years and did investigations for two years.  One thing I was taught is that the vast majority of the time, there's no such thing as a coincidence.  Joseph Smith talked about the "French prophets" in his editorial, "Try the Spirits."  He said they all listened to false spirits.  The last I heard, Joseph Smith was a genuine prophet.  As I mentioned before, Joseph Fielding Smith thought that Musser had heard a series of utterances from Joseph Smith and wrote them down as if they were one prophecy. 

 

You are right truth being intermixed with the false.  Since some parts of that alleged prophecy came true, I'm wondering what else is true.  This gives prima facie credibility to Joseph Fielding Smith's statement that what Musser heard were utterances from Joseph.

Edited December 31, 2015 by JojoBag

[Guest]

I need to give some context to the Fielding Smith quote.  The actual two page prophecy was discredited by many church leaders.  But some phases were lifted from actual quotes by church leaders and altered a bit to make it fit the prose.  The prophecy about the Constitution hanging by a thread was actually spoken by Joseph Smith.  But no one actually wrote that down until many years later.  By then, many of those present when the words were spoken by Joseph had a foggy memory of what the actual words were.

 

Now, there are many who point to the statement about the Constitution hanging by a thread and the Elders of the church coming to save it as the "white horse prophecy".  But these are two different prophecies. It is the two page prophecy that has been discredited.  The statement about the constitution is true, but it is incomplete. 

[mirkwood]

Sorry about that.  I thought you were former law enforcement.  I was a cop for 13 years and did investigations for two years.  One thing I was taught is that the vast majority of the time, there's no such thing as a coincidence.  Joseph Smith talked about the "French prophets" in his editorial, "Try the Spirits."  He said they all listened to false spirits.  The last I heard, Joseph Smith was a genuine prophet.  As I mentioned before, Joseph Fielding Smith thought that Musser had heard a series of utterances from Joseph Smith and wrote them down as if they were one prophecy. 

 

You are right truth being intermixed with the false.  Since some parts of that alleged prophecy came true, I'm wondering what else is true.  This gives prima facie credibility to Joseph Fielding Smith's statement that what Musser heard were utterances from Joseph.

 

I guess I wasn't clear either, I am currently working with just a few months shy of 19 years of experience.  With your background in law enforcement you should actually be more skeptical due to the lack of firsthand witnesses.  That is one of the things not only was I taught, but have learned through experience on the job.

 

Just because some accurate things are thrown into a statement does not make it "true".