Mission Talk By Holland?

[Good Days Last]

I was training on my job today, when me and my co-worker (an RM) got into a pretty solid discussion about the church and missions, as I am a prospective missionary.

He was telling me that there was a talk or maybe a local address to the MTC that Jeffery R. Holland gave about missions. A couple highlights were that he said something about missionaries wanting to come home early.

He said that coming home was not an option. That you were called of God, and offered this great opportunity to serve and that if it's meant for you to come home, he will find a way to do that. Otherwise you are required to serve out your time as you covenanted with him.

You put in a request and accepted a call (of your own free will up to this point) to serve the Lord in all your might mind and strength. The Lord accepted your plea to serve by calling you as a missionary to his great cause and at the point that you enter the MTC you are accepting this assignment and you are officially on his terms.

I'm sure that isn't exactly what he said as I injected a lot of my opinion, but that was the gist of it.

Does anyone know of such a talk? I'm interested in this topic of missionaries coming home, because I've had a friend very recently return from the MTC after giving up.

[StrawberryFields]

I would not be surprised that this talk would have been given.

I know that what happened to your friend has happened to other boys as well.

If you are a prospective missionary you need to be prepared to serve for the right reasons. You need to have already committed to give your next two years to serve. You need to be certain that you are worthy to go. You need to have a testimony of the gospel etc etc.

[BenRaines]

For two years I was over the Missionary Prep class in our stake. We had great teachers who taught the young men as they prepared to go. Before we started the class there had been a number of young men returning after four weeks in MTC or two months in mission field.

Our stake president called SLC and asked the mission department if we were alone in this. He said that they had little trouble with missionaries coming home from the mission field that left from Idaho farms. To them a mission was much like a vacation.

Reminded me of this story:

Dear Ma and Pa,

I am well. Hope you are. Tell Brother Walt and Brother Elmer the Marine Corps beats working for old man Minch by a mile. Tell them to join up quick before all of the places are filled.

I was restless at first because you got to stay in bed till nearly 6 a.m. but I am getting so I like to sleep late. Tell Walt and Elmer all you do before breakfast is smooth your cot, and shine some things. No hogs to slop, feed to pitch, mas h to mix, wood to split, fire to lay. Practically nothing.

Men got to shave but it is not so bad, there's warm water. Breakfast is strong on trimmings like fruit juice, cereal, eggs, bacon, etc., but kind of weak on chops, potatoes, ham, steak, fried eggplant, pie and other regular food, but tell Walt and Elmer you can always sit by the two city boys that live on coffee. Their food, plus yours, holds you until noon when you get fed again. It's no wonder these city boys can't walk much.

We go on "route marches," which the platoon sergeant says are long walks to harden us. If he thinks so, it's not my place to tell him different. A "route march" is about as far as to our mailbox at home. Then the city guys get sore feet and we all ride back in trucks.

The country is nice but awful flat The sergeant is like a school teacher. He nags a lot. The captain is like the school board. Majors and colonels just ride around and frown. They don't bother you no ne.

This next will kill Walt and Elmer with laughing. I keep getting medals for shooting. I don't know why. The bulls-eye is near as big as a chipmunk head and don't move, and it ain't shooting at you like the Higgett boys at home. All you got to do is lie there all comfortable and hit it. You don't even load your own cartridges. They come in boxes.

Then we have what they call hand-to-hand combat training. You get to wrestle with them city boys. I have to be real careful though, they break real easy. It ain't like fighting with that ole bull at home. I'm about the best they got in this except for that Tug Jordan from over in Silver Lake. I only beat him once. He joined up the same time as me, but I'm only 5'6" and 130 pounds and he's 6'8" and near 300 pounds dry.

Be sure to tell Walt and Elmer to hurry and join before other fellers get onto this setup and come stampeding in.

Your loving daughter,

Alice

Missons are hard work and some are even harder than others. If you mom packed your backpack for you when you went on scout outings and she is the one that earned the Eagle Scout badge while you were busy playing XBox a mission might be a difficult thing.

Now before everyone gets all riled up I do understand that some times there are moral issues that were not resolved, medical conditions that pop up and other things but coming home, Just Because, can be a signal of future issues.

My two cents worth.

Ben Raines

[bunnzy]

http://www.lds.org/portal/site/LDSOrg/menu..._&hideNav=1

I found this talk, its from LeGrand Richards, but its about a missionary who goes to Holland. It seems to go along the lines you were talking about.

[CrimsonKairos]

Ben, that "letter" rocked. Awesome, what else can I say about it!

[sixpacktr]

I have to agree with Ben, Bro Dorsey, etc., that it is a committment, and once you have made that covenant to go you should do all you can to keep it. There are medical and psychological reasons that some come home, and who am I to judge anyone anyway?? but the Lord is able to see into the heart, and it is to him that you make the covenant to go, and it is with him that you break the covenant if you come home 'just because'.

It can be a hard thing at times, and Satan works to discourage you, but I loved my mission, had a wonderful time and will always remember it. Made two of my very best friends I will ever have on my mission, and that too will never change. There is something about being engaged in the work of the Lord and sharing that with someone, even after your mission, when you are YM Pres, serving in the Bishopric, serving in Primary, wherever, that ties people together. Breaking that trust with our HF is a serious thing...

[jillybeangirly]

I think it would be awfully hard to judge someone for coming home from a mission. I know that there are many willing young men who would love to serve a mission that are just mentally or emotionally not capable of the demands of mission life. Even though they accepted the call, they just plain aren't capable of doing the work. I am sure the lord understands this.

[StrawberryFields]

Another thing thing I would like to add to what I have already said on this topic is serving a mission doesn't make you or break you as a member of the church. I sincerely believe that serving a mission will bless most people in their lives. I don't believe that serving a mission is something which is required. I grew up in the day of "Every worthy young man should fulfill a mission" It appears that the leaders of the church have come to know that a mission isn't for everyone.

[sixpacktr]

Another thing thing I would like to add to what I have already said on this topic is serving a mission doesn't make you or break you as a member of the church. I sincerely believe that serving a mission will bless most people in their lives. I don't believe that serving a mission is something which is required. I grew up in the day of "Every worthy young man should fulfill a mission" It appears that the leaders of the church have come to know that a mission isn't for everyone.

SF,

I don't agree. It is the DUTY of the YM to serve a mission. That has not changed. Several years ago the 'bar was raised' although I don't know that it really was. The same rules applied, it just was that no longer were certain past behaviors winked at (clean up 6 months before your mission, etc). They also did away with the LP, which I think was wonderful, and made sure that the YM serving a mission had a testimony before going, and could teach in their own words.

To me it is much like where I work: everyone is an adult, there are few rules, and everyone is expected to do their job. That doesn't mean you see just how little you can get away with, but rather you do all you can to ensure that the job gets done. The church didn't relax the requirement, but rather said that YM needed to gain a testimony before the mission, prepare themselves before the mission, etc., so that they were sending spiritual giants out to preach the gospel instead of the mental midgets that had gone out before (I being one of them). So to me it has made it clear that a mission is what you are supposed to do, and you are to be ready beforehand, not during or not at all.

There are some that cannot, to be sure, and that is between them and HF. However, I would wager a lot of those that choose not to go or come home early don't do so for medical/psychological reasons, but rather because they didn't want to obey the rules, or couldn't hack the tough work, etc...

[StrawberryFields]

<div class='quotemain'>

Another thing thing I would like to add to what I have already said on this topic is serving a mission doesn't make you or break you as a member of the church. I sincerely believe that serving a mission will bless most people in their lives. I don't believe that serving a mission is something which is required. I grew up in the day of "Every worthy young man should fulfill a mission" It appears that the leaders of the church have come to know that a mission isn't for everyone.

SF,

I don't agree. It is the DUTY of the YM to serve a mission. That has not changed. Several years ago the 'bar was raised' although I don't know that it really was . The same rules applied, it just was that no longer were certain past behaviors winked at (clean up 6 months before your mission, etc). They also did away with the LP, which I think was wonderful, and made sure that the YM serving a mission had a testimony before going, and could teach in their own words.

First let me say my opinion still stands. "Serving a mission doesn't make or break you as a member of the church."

I know plenty of fine men who have not served a mission.

As far as having the missionaries teach in their 'own words' it failed miserably. That is when they introduced "Preach My Gospel.

Here is the talk where the Raising of the Bar began. I remember it as if it were yesterday.

http://www.lds.org/portal/site/LDSOrg/menu..._&hideNav=1

[sixpacktr]

<div class='quotemain'>

<div class='quotemain'>

Another thing thing I would like to add to what I have already said on this topic is serving a mission doesn't make you or break you as a member of the church. I sincerely believe that serving a mission will bless most people in their lives. I don't believe that serving a mission is something which is required. I grew up in the day of "Every worthy young man should fulfill a mission" It appears that the leaders of the church have come to know that a mission isn't for everyone.

SF,

I don't agree. It is the DUTY of the YM to serve a mission. That has not changed. Several years ago the 'bar was raised' although I don't know that it really was . The same rules applied, it just was that no longer were certain past behaviors winked at (clean up 6 months before your mission, etc). They also did away with the LP, which I think was wonderful, and made sure that the YM serving a mission had a testimony before going, and could teach in their own words.

First let me say my opinion still stands. "Serving a mission doesn't make or break you as a member of the church."

I know plenty of fine men who have not served a mission.

As far as having the missionaries teach in their 'own words' it failed miserably. That is when they introduced "Preach My Gospel.

Here is the talk where the Raising of the Bar began. I remember it as if it were yesterday.

http://www.lds.org/portal/site/LDSOrg/menu..._&hideNav=1

I agree. Serving a mission doesn't show anything except a willingness to be obedient. I think that is a big thing, but I have known RMs that have fallen away, Bishops and SPs that have done the same. 'Endure to the end' is the watchword....But willingness to be obedient is huge, wouldn't you agree?

I think your and my signals are crossed on what I meant by teaching in their own words. 'Preach My Gospel' is exactly that: teaching in their own words. There is a general outline, but the words are the missionary's, not a 'canned speech'. So I don't believe it has failed. Quite the contrary, I think it is a huge success...

I also remember Elder Ballard's talk about 'Raising the Bar'. And I will again state he didn't state anything any different than what had been preached from the first missionaries' time: prepare yourself, get a testimony, etc. What he did say was that you could no longer slide into a mission, that Bishop's were no longer going to be able to let wild youth go on missions to reform them, but that the missionary had a responsibility to prepare themselves. There wouldn't be any more going on a mission because that was what 19 year olds in the church do...

Serving a mission for YM is a duty. I stand by that, and would like to know where anything other than that has been said. However, it is also a priviledge, and was not to be taken for granted anymore...

[StrawberryFields]

Hey Sixpacktr,

My Bishop and my Stake Predident did NOT serve missions.

I guess it doesn't really make or break your membership in the church.

[bunnzy]

My husband did not serve a mission either. Does that make him any less a child of God in HFs eyes? I do not beleive so. He is a righteous temple attender, priesthood holder and father.

I remember a time where i was struggling with the fact that my husband did not have 'missionary experiences' and that i did not beleive he was as spiritual as i would like. We were having marraige problems at the time and went to the Bishop to discuss them. I brought up this topic of dissapointment that he had not served a mission, and Bishop told me that he knew men in our ward who had served missions who were less spiritual and not a good a person as my husband. He told me that in the future we would have the opportunity to serve a mission together, and that it does not matter that he did not serve a mission.

My husband is willing to be obediant. He is a dedicated and hard worker. He is a loving and spiritual person and not going on a mission does not make him any less a member than you six.

[StrawberryFields]

I know plenty of men who have gone on missions THEN left the church for good.

Serving a mission does not insure anything.

BTW, My husband went on a mission and I 'waited' for him while he was gone. We were married 2 months and 10 days from the day he walked off the plane. We have been married for 25 years. :)

[sixpacktr]

My gosh! I'm trying to find where I have stated anywhere that not serving a mission means you will fall away from the church or be a bad person later on. I did state that serving a mission doesn't guarantee you squat. You must 'endure to the end'. Period. I do believe that choosing not to serve is wrong. Sorry, but it is. It is a YM duty to serve. If he decides not to go, then blessings are lost and I believe repenting has to take place.

Does this damn him forever? NO! I never said it did. I had a Bishop that didn't serve, is now in the SP, and I loved him. A great guy. He went into the military instead, but it bothered him that he hadn't served. But I don't think him 'less' of a member than me, but actually better than me! Bunnzy/SF, you guys have got to quit thinking that I'm out to judge people. I don't judge them, I don't have to answer for their life. I don't think that those that haven't served should be 'kicked out'. But it doesn't change the fact that the church strongly encourages YM to go, that it is their duty to go, and that they need to prepare to serve a mission...

I'm trying not to be strong in my language here. Actually, I'm laughing my butt off because my posts are being taken as condemnation and damning everyone that hasn't served to hell, when that was never my intent nor phrasing, and yet the more I say the more I'm told that I'm judging others...

BTW, My husband went on a mission and I 'waited' for him while he was gone. We were married 2 months and 10 days from the day he walked off the plane. We have been married for 25 years. :)

Congrats on that. My wife and I are at 24.5 years. She didn't wait for me, because she didn't know me before my mission (thank goodness for that!). We do think, though, that although we didn't know each other, that we were probably within feet of each other at the Tokyo Temple dedication in 1980 (all the missionaries in Japan were able to go, and my wife was a Stake missionary at the time).

[StrawberryFields]

My gosh! I'm trying to find where I have stated anywhere that not serving a mission means you will fall away from the church or be a bad person later on. I did state that serving a mission doesn't guarantee you squat. You must 'endure to the end'. Period. I do believe that choosing not to serve is wrong. Sorry, but it is. It is a YM duty to serve. If he decides not to go, then blessings are lost and I believe repenting has to take place.

Does this damn him forever? NO! I never said it did. I had a Bishop that didn't serve, is now in the SP, and I loved him. A great guy. He went into the military instead, but it bothered him that he hadn't served. But I don't think him 'less' of a member than me, but actually better than me! Bunnzy/SF, you guys have got to quit thinking that I'm out to judge people. I don't judge them, I don't have to answer for their life. I don't think that those that haven't served should be 'kicked out'. But it doesn't change the fact that the church strongly encourages YM to go, that it is their duty to go, and that they need to prepare to serve a mission...

I'm trying not to be strong in my language here. Actually, I'm laughing my butt off because my posts are being taken as condemnation and damning everyone that hasn't served to hell, when that was never my intent nor phrasing, and yet the more I say the more I'm told that I'm judging others...

Sixpacktr,

Now I am laughing!

This is my first real discussion that I have had with you and I have yet to call you judgmental.

If it is happening with others I might be able to see their point. You mention that you are not trying to be strong in your language here and yet you write this....

"It is their duty to go"

With the 'raising of the bar' there are things that have changed behind the scenes as well. It's not just a matter of being prepared to go. You also need to fit a certain criteria.

"It is their duty to go"

Some will go and some will not what matters is where they are "today' Can you show me anything that says if someone didn't go on a full time mission they will have a 'black mark' in heaven?

It is this type of black and white reasoning which drives many people away from the church. A spirit of self-righteousness is wrong. We are all on different levels of spirituality, we all have our own journey to fulfill. If someone came up to me and said I didn't do enough baptisms for the dead as a youth because I didn’t go to for years as a child I would have to say they were wrong in the judgmental attitude. People don't know what goes on in families. The reason why I didn't go to church for years as a child is because I was teased and mocked by my peers, peers who had apparently taught at home that it was okay to make fun of other people who had clothes which smelled of cigarette smoke. You see growing up my parents smoked, and I was subjected to have my clothes smell that way. My parents were great people yet they too felt very judged by people in the church who felt they had all of the answers and they wanted to keep their children safe and sheltered from people like 'us'. I wonder who created the greater sin... hmmm:

[BenRaines]

No one has said that a mission is a make or break deal. It has been said and I don't think retracted that "All worthy males should serve a mission". Now with raising the bar there are worthy young men who for health or other medical or physical reasons can't. That does not diminish their worthiness.

For those who go and come home because they miss mom or their girlfriend or because they can't play XBox on their mission you are right "The Lord knows their hearts". For those who come home for valid reasons the Lord knows their hearts too.

I have never looked upon a young man who goes or doesn't go as a proof of manhood. The mission field is a great training place for the rest of your life. That does not say that there are not good men and women in the church who did not serve missions. My mission president, he was flying bombers over Germany during what would have been his mission years. He was a bomber pilot in WWII.

Ben Raines

[sixpacktr]

SF,

We've got to stop meeting this way! I am just sitting here, giggling, because somehow I believe we are saying the same thing and yet we are not communicating....

Here are a few quotes:

Youth of the Church, the world is in need of your help. There are feet to steady, hands to grasp, minds to encourage, hearts to inspire, and souls to save. The harvest truly is great. Let there be no mistake about it; the missionary opportunity of a lifetime is yours. The blessings of eternity await you. Yours is the privilege to be, not spectators, but participants on the stage of service to others.

To those of you who hold the Aaronic Priesthood, I say, prepare for your full-time missions. This would apply also to you young women who, though not under the same obligation as the young men, may nevertheless desire to serve. You will become a part of that valiant missionary army of the Lord which now numbers 50,000 strong.

Pres Thomas Monson, New Era May 1996

In conclusion, may I testify of the blessings of missionary service. Last year, my father passed away at age 88. As a young man, he was called on a mission during the Depression, when few were able to serve. It was hard and difficult. He always said that his decision to serve a mission was the best decision he ever made. When he died, he left 10 children, 9 living; 56 grandchildren; and 116 great-grandchildren. Of his posterity, 32 served full-time missions and 15 spouses who married into the family had served missions, resulting in 47 full-time missionaries or almost 100 years of full-time missionary work. All of this resulted, in part, because one man served a mission. I shall be forever grateful that my father served a mission and that I was motivated and taught to follow his example.

I bear witness of this great privilege we all have in the Church—to be missionaries. Inherent in our responsibility of holding the priesthood is to be a missionary. I pray that we will all fulfill that obligation we have to the Lord.

Elder Earl Tingey, New Era May 1998

One young man, when called on a mission, replied that he didn’t have much talent for that kind of thing. What he was good at was keeping his powerful new automobile in top condition. He enjoyed the sense of power and acceleration, and when he was driving, the continual motion gave him the illusion that he was really getting somewhere.

All along, his father had been content with saying, “He likes to do things with his hands. That’s good enough for him.”

Good enough for a son of God? This young man didn’t realize that the power of his automobile is infinitesimally small in comparison with the power of the sea, or of the sun; and there are many suns, all controlled by law and by priesthood, ultimately—a priesthood power that he could have been developing in the service of the Lord. He settled for a pitiful god, a composite of steel and rubber and shiny chrome.

Pres Spencer Kimball, "The False Gods We Worship" Ensign June 1976

These are just some of the talks/articles that I am referring to when I state that a YM's duty is to serve a mission. I don't take that as harsh, but rather as stating what has been stated in the past.

So, SF, let me be perfectly clear I don't judge those that choose not to go. However, I do believe it is their duty, based upon talks and my time in the church. I also believe in the gift of repentance and that it doesn't damn you forever if you don't serve. I do believe that you miss out on blessings if you choose not to serve, but that you can serve in the church and be just as good as or better than those that did serve missions. Serving a mission doesn't guarantee anything, but it does show a spirit of obedience and willingness to sacrifice, and you are blessed greatly for having gone. We must ALL endure to the end...

I don't think I've left anything out!

In the immortal words of Rodney King: C..c..can't we all just get along?

[CrimsonKairos]

It is the duty of priesthood holders to serve a mission.

If they choose not to fulfill that duty, they can be forgiven just as with anything else we ought to do but sometimes don't.

The priesthood comes with an oath and covenant, and it becometh every man who has been warned to warn his neighbor.

Luckily, missionary experiences aren't the private possession of full-time missionaries.

Still, every young man should prepare himself to serve a mission when he is 19. If health reasons prevent him from completing that mission (as with me), or what have you, his duty is still to prepare and be willing to go if his priesthood leaders will send him.

[StrawberryFields]

I really appreciate your words Ben. :)

Sixpacktr,

The only thing I have a problem with is the word "duty".

Oh and your avatar is ...... disturbing...

[CrimsonKairos]

'berry, a "duty" is a legal or moral obligation or responsibility.

Worthy males receive the priesthood with the covenant that they will use it to serve others and exercise it righteously in building the Kingdom of God.

Serving a full-time mission for two years is currently one of the obligations attendant with receiving the priesthood.

[StrawberryFields]

It is the duty of priesthood holders to serve a mission.

If they choose not to fulfill that duty, they can be forgiven just as with anything else we ought to do but sometimes don't.

The priesthood comes with an oath and covenant, and it becometh every man who has been warned to warn his neighbor.

Luckily, missionary experiences aren't the private possession of full-time missionaries.

Still, every young man should prepare himself to serve a mission when he is 19. If health reasons prevent him from completing that mission (as with me), or what have you, his duty is still to prepare and be willing to go if his priesthood leaders will send him.

Yes CK, this sounds fine. :)

The priesthood oath and covenant? Is it to warn their neighbor?

'berry, a "duty" is a legal or moral obligation or responsibility.

Worthy males receive the priesthood with the covenant that they will use it to serve others and exercise it righteously in building the Kingdom of God.

Serving a full-time mission for two years is currently one of the obligations attendant with receiving the priesthood.

How is this obligation given?

[CrimsonKairos]

That's a secret pledge we make on the fifth Sunday of the first year of every decade.

Seriously though, yes, we covenant to obey God and magnify our calling, and from the restoration to now, those who receive the priesthood are called to preach the gospel if they are able.

[StrawberryFields]

That's a secret pledge we make on the fifth Sunday of the first year of every decade.

Seriously though, yes, we covenant to obey God and magnify our calling, and from the restoration to now, those who receive the priesthood are called to preach the gospel if they are able.

So the priesthood is given with the OBLIGATION of serving a full time mission.... Gosh I learn so many things here.

I guess that is why YW or under the obligation to only marry a return missionary.

[sixpacktr]

Now SF,

Duty = Obligation...

Now do you see where I am coming from?

I'm going to start another thread about accusing, coercing, and aspiring in a couple of days, unless someone beats me to it. I have been reading Nibley again, this time 'Brother Brigham Challenges the Saints', and BY spoke A LOT about self righteousness, accusing others, etc., and that the Lord was not happy with the Saints and their shunning Zion to get ahead of others. I think it kind of ties in with what this thread was about (kind of), but I want to get some quotes.

Needless to say, it humbled me to see that it is FAR to easy too accuse and try to coerce others...How weak we humans are!