porterrockwell Posted April 11, 2004 Report Share Posted April 11, 2004 Respecter of persons??? Um, bro, maybe you should not use that phrase so loosely. Wow, in that case, curses would never abound, and certainly by that statement you would have to believe that their are NO chosen people. Are you telling me that you understand God's plan, and intention for that matter, that you are willing to dismiss something because you don't find it feasable. So what about water coming from a rock, looking up at a serpent to be healed, walking on water.....etc? The fact is BY was NOT a biggot by any means. While he felt that blacks were inferior, he also felt that they should be treated JUST LIKE EVERYBODY ELSE. People like to bring up the fact that there was a priesthood-ban on blacks, but not that we were hated because of our stance on freedom AND equal rights of African-Americans.(Off topic I know, but don't call BY a biggot.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tr2 Posted April 11, 2004 Report Share Posted April 11, 2004 The fact is BY was NOT a biggot by any means. While he felt that blacks were inferior, he also felt that they should be treated JUST LIKE EVERYBODY ELSE. People like to bring up the fact that there was a priesthood-ban on blacks, but not that we were hated because of our stance on freedom AND equal rights of African-Americans.(Off topic I know, but don't call BY a biggot.)Oh come on!!! How does one see another person as inferior and say they treat them as equals? You are just kidding yourself. Brigham Young didn't burn crosses or wear a white hood but he was still a racist bigot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest curvette Posted April 11, 2004 Report Share Posted April 11, 2004 Originally posted by porterrockwell@Apr 11 2004, 09:06 AM Respecter of persons??? Um, bro, maybe you should not use that phrase so loosely. Wow, in that case, curses would never abound, and certainly by that statement you would have to believe that their are NO chosen people.Are you telling me that you understand God's plan, and intention for that matter, that you are willing to dismiss something because you don't find it feasable. So what about water coming from a rock, looking up at a serpent to be healed, walking on water.....etc?The fact is BY was NOT a biggot by any means. While he felt that blacks were inferior, he also felt that they should be treated JUST LIKE EVERYBODY ELSE. People like to bring up the fact that there was a priesthood-ban on blacks, but not that we were hated because of our stance on freedom AND equal rights of African-Americans.(Off topic I know, but don't call BY a biggot.) Yeah Cal! Don't call Brigham Young a Bigot! (I'll do it for you: Bigot! Bigot! Bigot!)Porter, I'm willing to wager my entire (and may I add, incredibly delicious) Easter dinner that Cal does, in fact, NOT believe in the water/rock, serpent healing stuff either. I'm not sure how he feels about Jesus' miracles. But, why do you even bring those things up? What do those have to do with the church denying the priesthood to males of African descent? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porterrockwell Posted April 12, 2004 Report Share Posted April 12, 2004 I bring them up, because most who are not spiritual inclined do not believe in such miracles. Which in a way is to deny the faith. Because I don't claim to know what hasn't been revealed. What's funny is that noone ever, ever brings up that we were attacked by the Knights of the Golden Circle(upon disbanding formed the KKK) because as the Mormon Reform party one of our key points while JS was running for office, was that blacks be freed and given equal rights. He believed that blacks were the way they were because oppressive white culture had not allowed them to be educated and excel within the structure of freedom. In fact, a certain piece on slavery which was written by JS, and somehow(I'm not saying that he read, or copied this piece, or JS) Abraham Lincoln outlines an identicle one. Interesting. So the priesthood-ban is not the issue, it's what anti-mormons don't want blacks to know. If Joseph Smith would have been alive today he would have made Jesse Jackson look like a slacker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tr2 Posted April 12, 2004 Report Share Posted April 12, 2004 What's funny is that noone ever, ever brings up that we were attacked by the Knights of the Golden CircleHow is that relevant? Does that mean that because mormons were once attacked then they have the right to attack whoever they choose?He believed that blacks were the way they were because oppressive white culture had not allowed them to be educated and excel within the structure of freedom. And Smith was the way he was because he was raised in a culture that people believed they were better than others (that could be why he created such an elitist religion).In fact, a certain piece on slavery which was written by JS, and somehow(I'm not saying that he read, or copied this piece, or JS) Abraham Lincoln outlines an identicle oneThat is quite a claim, you will need to provide a valid source. So the priesthood-ban is not the issue, it's what anti-mormons don't want blacks to knowYou are right, racism and bigotry is the issue.If Joseph Smith would have been alive today he would have made Jesse Jackson look like a slacker.No, he'd likely be in jail like the criminal he is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faerie Posted April 12, 2004 Report Share Posted April 12, 2004 *disgust* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tr2 Posted April 12, 2004 Report Share Posted April 12, 2004 *disgust* I thought the same thing when i first read what Brigham Young was like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Starsky Posted April 13, 2004 Report Share Posted April 13, 2004 What has beating a dead horse ever gotten anyone? Lets just see what pots are boiling in today's issues...maybe we can make a difference.... History is dead....and really can't be discussed with any relevance to what one is being taught or given, or expected and allowed to gain today. After all it was an African nation Pres. Hinckley and his wife were visiting...with so much vigor that Sister Hinckley got plum wore out... Think of what they are trying to do today to make things right.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faerie Posted April 13, 2004 Report Share Posted April 13, 2004 no Tr2..YOU disgust me... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snow Posted April 13, 2004 Report Share Posted April 13, 2004 Originally posted by Tr2@Apr 12 2004, 08:03 AM And Smith was the way he was because he was raised in a culture that people believed they were better than others (that could be why he created such an elitist religion). Tsk, tsk, tsk,I'm sad.You have missed the point yet again hon.Prey tell, what culture (who people think themselves better than others) do you think that Joseph Smith was raised in?I am going to get myself and ice cold glass of diet coke, a juicy t-bone with mushrooms and carmelized onions, pull up a chair and enjoy the show while you explain that one Trident. Just joking. You won't have any idea how to explain it, so I would be waiting a very long time.The point, though its a wasted effort explaining it to you, is that the LDS Church is and has always been the opposite of an elitist Church. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snow Posted April 13, 2004 Report Share Posted April 13, 2004 Originally posted by Tr2@Apr 12 2004, 08:03 AM If Joseph Smith would have been alive today he would have made Jesse Jackson look like a slacker.No, he'd likely be in jail like the criminal he is. No, youer the criminal. Frondeur is still a crime isn't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TheProudDuck Posted April 13, 2004 Report Share Posted April 13, 2004 Originally posted by Snow+Apr 12 2004, 08:44 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Snow @ Apr 12 2004, 08:44 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Tr2@Apr 12 2004, 08:03 AM If Joseph Smith would have been alive today he would have made Jesse Jackson look like a slacker.No, he'd likely be in jail like the criminal he is. No, youer the criminal. Frondeur is still a crime isn't it? I think so. And the punishment involves being bolted into an iron mask ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snow Posted April 13, 2004 Report Share Posted April 13, 2004 Originally posted by TheProudDuck@Apr 12 2004, 09:22 PM I think so. And the punishment involves being bolted into an iron mask ... I am curious to know just how many people even know what the Fronde is. Le Canard Fier and how many else? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TheProudDuck Posted April 13, 2004 Report Share Posted April 13, 2004 As the great Marlin said, "With Frondes like these, who needs anemones?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Starsky Posted April 13, 2004 Report Share Posted April 13, 2004 What? Isn't Fronde a political party which fought against the French Government? And isn't anemones a flower....a sea 'anemone'? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tr2 Posted April 13, 2004 Report Share Posted April 13, 2004 no Tr2..YOU disgust me... And why would that be? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest lt Posted April 13, 2004 Report Share Posted April 13, 2004 I think I'm going to comment of the origional part of this post....What a wonderful wonderful time we live in, a time where people can forgive and move on and realize we are all striving for the same purpose. I think it took allot for this article to be printed, nobodies arm was turn, it was a sincere appology. How wonderful in deed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outshined Posted April 13, 2004 Report Share Posted April 13, 2004 Nah, if JS was alive today, he'd be in the same position as the current prophet. Murder isn't nearly so socially acceptable as a way to silence religious belief with which one disagrees these days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cal Posted April 14, 2004 Report Share Posted April 14, 2004 Originally posted by porterrockwell@Apr 11 2004, 08:19 PM I bring them up, because most who are not spiritual inclined do not believe in such miracles. Which in a way is to deny the faith. Because I don't claim to know what hasn't been revealed. What's funny is that noone ever, ever brings up that we were attacked by the Knights of the Golden Circle(upon disbanding formed the KKK) because as the Mormon Reform party one of our key points while JS was running for office, was that blacks be freed and given equal rights. He believed that blacks were the way they were because oppressive white culture had not allowed them to be educated and excel within the structure of freedom. In fact, a certain piece on slavery which was written by JS, and somehow(I'm not saying that he read, or copied this piece, or JS) Abraham Lincoln outlines an identicle one. Interesting. So the priesthood-ban is not the issue, it's what anti-mormons don't want blacks to know. If Joseph Smith would have been alive today he would have made Jesse Jackson look like a slacker. And there is an example of YOUR bigotry, Port. That is "anyone who doesn't interpret the scriptures the way I do is a faithless apostate and has no spirituality".Your thinking is the kind of thinking that led to the attitude that BY had toward Blacks. That is, "they don't look or act like us superior white folk, so they must be inferior, subhumans cursed by God himself". You and BY would have gotten along swimmingly!BTW--the line about "God being no respecter of persons", I believe is in the scriptures. Also, have your read in the BoM where is says "all are alike unto God, Black and white, male and female..." ?Also----curvette is right on! I don't interpret the scriptures literally in many situations--especially the ones that have God suspending the laws of Physics for fancy demonstration purposes. And I'll bet I can get you to admit that you don't always interpret them literally EITHER! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helen Mar Kimball Posted April 17, 2004 Report Share Posted April 17, 2004 Originally posted by Starsky@Apr 12 2004, 05:18 PM Think of what they are trying to do today is make BYU more attractive for African American basketball players, wide receivers & defensive backs. Fixed your post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helen Mar Kimball Posted April 17, 2004 Report Share Posted April 17, 2004 Originally posted by porterrockwell@Apr 11 2004, 08:19 PM If Joseph Smith would have been alive today he would have made Jesse Jackson look like a slacker. >>While Joseph Smith may have mentioned setting the slaves free toward the end of his life, he was basically a racist. Marvin Hill, who teaches history at Brigham Young University, agrees in this interesting comment:Even Joseph's "calling for the end of slavery by 1850" in his Presidential campaign is not so liberal as Brodie supposes.... Joseph Smith was, therefore, to some degree a racist, a segregationist, a colonizer, and only incidentally a supporter of abolition. He had some elements of liberalism in his thinking, but these had definite limits. His record ... is marked by ambiguity (Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought, Autumn 1970, p.99).<< Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Starsky Posted April 17, 2004 Report Share Posted April 17, 2004 Originally posted by Helen Mar Kimball+Apr 16 2004, 10:14 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Helen Mar Kimball @ Apr 16 2004, 10:14 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Starsky@Apr 12 2004, 05:18 PM Think of what they are trying to do today is make BYU more attractive for African American basketball players, wide receivers & defensive backs. Fixed your post. I don't know what you are talking about...I never posted anything about blacks/BYU....what have you done? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outshined Posted April 17, 2004 Report Share Posted April 17, 2004 She's funning you, man. She altered your "quote" to fit her BYU sports obsession. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Starsky Posted April 17, 2004 Report Share Posted April 17, 2004 Thanks Outshined....I needed an interpreter...LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.