Heavenly Mother

[rupert63]

Hello Rupert,

But logic, of and by itself, leaves no doubt as to the existance of our Heavenly Mother.

That is not a logical conclusion if you believe that God created man out of the dust of the Earth and breathed life into him vs. procreating with another being. My view is not an LDS one, as is obvious.

Hi ya Doc.

Pleased to meet'cha.

Sure its logical, because He did form man out of the dust of the earth. I've edited out the stuff that is contaray to the rules of this thread. I appologize for my disrespectful post.

[Dr T]

You lost me a little in that last post but thank you for your thoughts sir. Welcome to the forum. :)

[rupert63]

You lost me a little in that last post but thank you for your thoughts sir. Welcome to the forum. :)

Thanx for the welcome Doc. Didn't mean to lose ya. I claim LDS as my religion because it is the one that set my feet in the direction of truth. I have no doubt that I have a Heavenly Mother.

Again I appolize for my disrespectful post. I have edited it out and beg forgiveness.

[MichaelGB]

I found an article that i thought some here might be interested in.

Please note, it is NOT LDS doctrine, but i think it does have some interesting things to tell us about scripture, scriptural interpretation, and Heavenly Mother, --

From: Yahoo! Groups

From: "Kerry Shirts" <shirtail@...>

Date: Tue Jan 4, 2005 10:03 am

Subject: Praying to Heavenly Mother

Article by Kerry Shirts: On How Praying to Heavenly MOther IS Scriptural, --

according to the original Scriptures --

I found it. In fact, I think I posted this here a few months back, but here is

the majority of the post again. Notice it is indeed quite scriptural to pray to

Heavenly Mother. Just because we in this church refuse to learn Hebrew, and

hence see just WHO is being prayed to, does not make it right or correct or

accurate to say we are not to pray to Heavenly Mother. Not that I am advocating

such, but I dang sure can show it is very scriptural.

Kerry

In conjunction with "Eloah," is the name "El-Shadday" which is also mostly used

by Job, interestingly enough. In fact of the 48 times Shadday is mentioned in

the Bible, 31 of them are in Job! So a look into this is in high order I

believe. Fascinating insights can be gleaned from the Hebrew of Job.

The feminine imagery is powerfully depicted in Job 38:8."Or who shut up the sea

with doors, when it brake forth, [leapt tumultuously or burst forth

energetically] as if it had issued out of the womb?" Yahweh also asks

rhetorically at Job 38:29 - "Out of whose womb came the ice?" These are feminine

characteristics. And what's more, they are the feminine characteristics of the

Goddess Eloah since Job describes her further in other places. Job 11:5 laments

"Oh that God would speak." God here being the Goddess Eloah. The next verse is a

desire for God(dess) (Eloah) to show the secrets of Wisdom. ("weyagged-leka ta'

alumot Hokmah" - the Hebrew "ta' alumot" being the feminine noun in the plural

construct, while "Hokmah," is of course, the singular feminine noun for Wisdom,

another name for the Mother Goddess, especially in Proverbs, the Wisdom of

Solomon, and Sirach and later Rabbinic, Kabbalistic traditions). Notice the

remainder of this verse 6, how it shows a Mother's mercy!, ".that they [the

secrets of the Wisdom] are double to that which is! Know therefore that God

exacteth of thee less than thine iniquity deserveth." There is no eye for an eye

and tooth for a tooth justice here being described, but a loving tender mercy

with less punishment and ignorance than is deserved, a very "motherly" trait.

Verse 7 continues with more information of the God(dess) - Job 11:7: "Canst thou

by searching find out God? [Hebrew "Eloah"] canst thou find out the Almighty

[Hebrew Shadday] unto perfection?"

Another way to translate this is "can you reach the limit or find the

extremities to the ultimate Almighty?" The Hebrew "Takliyth" is the feminine

singular construct. The HALOT Lexicon indicates that the Neo-Punic word "ts't

watkl't" means the outermost or the furthest parts.

This description of Eloah/Shadday (they are used synonymously in many places in

Job and the Hebrew scriptures) indicates the majesty and power of the Goddess.

She is, after all, the "Almighty"! The Hebrew is El-Shadday," which in Hebrew

can translate as "the many breasted God," or "the God with breasts," since

Hebrew "Shad" means a woman's breasts.

And furthermore, considering El-Shadday, it is utterly incredibly fascinating to

realize that it was as this Goddess, El-Shadday, that God was known to the

Patriarchs before she was known as Yahweh! Exodus 6:3 notes this plainly. In the

previous verse [2], God said He was Yhwh, and in verse 3, God was known as

El-Shadday, the Hebrew word used for "appeared" in the English translation is

actually "'erah' from the root "ra'ah" which can mean to "understand," to

"realize," to "learn how someone is," etc. (HALOT Lexicon). It means a lot more

than simply seeing God, but also in understand what and how God is, in this

case, that God is the Mother, Shadday, the breasted one. Hence the God of

Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, is the Mother, Shadday! Now that is simply stunning.

In conjunction with this, we read at Psalm 114:7, that the earth trembles at the

presence of the God of Jacob. Here she is again as Eloah.

That Shadday meaning the Breasted One, is a correct translation and

interpretation, is also seen in the parallelism in Jacob's blessing in Genesis

49:25-26, where she is mentioned, as well as the blessings being of the womb,

the breasts, as well as the family, father and mother, and child. (see the

analysis of this in David Noel Freedman, Frank Moore Cross, Jr., "Studies in

Ancient Yahwistic Poetry," William B. Eerdmann's Publishing, Biblical Resource

Series, reprint, 1997: 53-63.) The blessing of Jacob also mentions the blessings

of the deep.

The Deep is the Hebrew, "Tehom" - of which perhaps the Goddess Tiamat is

derived. The "tehom" is the "deep", symbolizing, the womb, the Mother of

creation, of course. At Ebla the word is "ti'a-'a-ma-tum," which corresponds

also with the Akkadian "tiamtu(m)," "tamtu(m)," the deep, sea (HALOT Lexicon).

An older treatment of Gen 1:2 found a similarity between "tehom" in Genesis and

the Enuma Elish story in which Tiamat was vanquished by Marduk and from her body

earth and heaven were made. Genesis also reflects a fight in which the spirit of

God rushed on the chaos monster and thus made the ordered universe. "Tiamat" and

"tehom" come from the same root. The root referred to deep waters and Hebrew

used this root as well as a noun for water in the deep ocean and deep in the

ground. But in the animistic thought of Akkadian it became divinized into the

goddess of the ocean, Tiamat. In Ugaritic the "h" is preserved ( thm) as in

Hebrew and the ocean is sometimes divinized as in Akkadian. E. Theodore Mullen,

Jr., in his Doctoral Dissertation, "The Divine Council in Canaanite and Early

Hebrew Literature," Scholars press, 1980: 13, noted that creation itself, is not

necessarily a battle against the sea, (the "Deep," in the Bible) so much as it

is containment. It is the restricting of the bounds of the sea that is what

caused Creation. A god or Goddess can contain the boundless deep, but humans

cannot. This is why El-Shadday is noted as being the Almighty, she is the

boundless ocean. The ocean, the deep (read womb), is the ocean of life, not

literal physical waters incidentally. It is interesting to note in Ulf

Oldenburg's dissertation (The Conflict Between El and Baal in Canaanite

Religion," (1969): 134), that the battle of Yamm (the Sea) and the other Gods,

is held back by two goddesses, and that Yamm is considered male.

Anyway, back to Job. Job 22:26 For then shalt thou have thy delight in the

Almighty, [El-Shadday] and shalt lift up thy face unto God [Eloah].

It is interesting that these are the names of the Goddess being talked of. In

another verse, speaking of the hypocrit, Job is asked rhetorically, "Will he

delight himself in the Almighty [El-Shadday]? will he always call upon God

[Eloah]?" (Job 27:10). Here again, we have the Goddess. Amazing also is when we

realize that Job understands that the Goddess will be his judge! Job 31:6 "Let

me be weighed in an even balance, that God [Eloah] may know mine integrity."

Three times Eloah occurs in parallel to "rock" as a descriptive term for God

(Deut 32:15; Psa 18:31 [Hebrew 32]; Isa 44:8). Once it is found in a context in

which God is described as a shield to those who take refuge in him (Prov 30:5).

Three times it is used in a context of terror for sinners (Psa 50:22; Psa 114:7;

Psa 139:19).

This would suggest that the term conveyed to God's people comfort and assurance

while conveying fear to their enemies. This is how a Mother would be with her

children, a source of comfort. The concepts of strength and might conveyed by

Eloah are further seen in the three successive verses of Daniel's vision about

the great foreign god (Dan 11:37-39). Here the foreign god's god (Eloah) seems

to be "strength" itself. In Habakkuk 1:11 the term is used similarly.

This term for God, Eloah, was usually clearly used for Israel's God, the true

God. This is evident from the fact that the Levites in the postexilic period

used the term in quoting the descriptive revelation of God given in Exo 34:6-7,

where the original revelation to Moses had used El and Yahweh (Nehemiah 9:17).

In fact here at Nehemiah we find many of the Goddess attributes for which the

feminine is known - ".but thou art a God ready to pardon, gracious and merciful,

slow to anger, and of great kindness, and forsookest them not." This recalls

what I noted about Gesenius' description based on the Hebrew vorlage of the

feminine, ". while the feminine aspect involves motherly, productive,

sustaining, nourishing, gentle, etc." (Gesenius, "Grammar").

Perhaps the most staggering place that Eloah is used in the Hebrew Bible, is in

Isaiah. In his great argument against the idolatry of the nations, Here is what

the Goddess says: Isaiah 44:8 - "Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told

thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a

God [Eloah] beside me? yea, there is no God [Eloah]; I know not any." Eloah is

also found on the Great Scroll of the Dead Sea Scrolls Isaiah manuscript as

well, as I have personally been able to look it up and see the spelling.

This is the very famous verse used by literally all Christian to declare the

idea of monotheism in ancient Israel. It is, indeed, rather shocking to find our

beloved Mother Goddess in this verse!

The Mother is also associated and indeed, identified with the "Holy Spirit," the

Ruach ha Qadosh. Interestingly, in the New Testament, the Holy Spirit is

associated with the Second Comforter, especially in John chapters 14-16. The

idea and role of comforting is found quite strongly as mothering in Isaiah

66:13. "As one whom his mother comforteth, so will I comfort you; and ye shall

be comforted in Jerusalem." This comforting, nurturing aspect is important as

indicating the feminine goddess aspects.

The Pi'el meaning of nakhum is "to comfort" or "to be comforted" (Niphal, Pual,

and Hithpael). This Hebrew word was well known to every pious Jew living in

exile as he recalled the opening words of Isaiah's "Book of Consolation,

"nahammu, nahammu ammi" - "Comfort ye, comfort ye my people" (Isa 40:1). The

same word occurs in Psa 23:4, where David says of his heavenly Shepherd, "Thy

rod and thy staff, they comfort me." A mother might comfort her child (Isa 66:13

above) but it is God who comforts his people (Psalm 71:21 [here using Elohim];

Psalm 86:17; Psalm 119:82; Isa 12:1; Isa 49:13; Isa 52:9).

More to the point, at Isaiah 11:2, the Spirit of Wisdom is called the Spirit of

Yahweh. The interesting thing here is in this verse, the words "to rest upon,"

"Wisdom," "Counsel," "might," "knowledge," and finally, "fear" are all feminine.

It is understood that Wisdom personified is the female Deity involved in the

creation of the universe with God, as God.

The Shekhinah is also the female aspect of Deity, strongly elaborated on in the

Kabbalah. Yet the idea is also found in the Old Testament and quite strongly.

The Shekhinah means "dwelling" or "presence" of God. Interestingly the

"mishkhan" a form of the word "shakan" to dwell, means the Tabernacle. Shikhinah

is a feminine Hebrew noun and Isaiah 51 uses this feminine noun along with the

feminine pronouns, particularly verses 9 and 10. Isaiah 57:15 says the Shekhinah

"inhabits," (Hebrew, Shokeyn) eternity, the high and lofty one.

Gerschom Scholem, "The Mystical Shape of the Godhead," Schocken Books, 1991:

143f, noted that Philo described the Father Creator of All, and the Mother, the

Mother of all, including the Son. This Father is described as the "Husband of

Wisdom." She is the radiant emanation of the Glory of God, the Holy One. And the

Holy One is one of the main epithets which Isaiah uses to describe the Goddess

and Mother. The Hebrew "Qadosh" is used to describe the Holy Spirit, the Spirit

of God, which was sent to Israel during the Exodus, to lead them. (See Jacobus

A. Naude, "Holiness in the Dead Sea Scrolls," in James C. Vanderkam, Peter W.

Flint, eds., "The Dead Sea Scrolls After 50 Years," E.J. Brill, 1999: 171-199

for excellent analytical treatment of Qadosh) It was this same Spirit who was

the Mother in the Hebrew Scriptures, which we have been exploring. The Marriage

of the Father and Mother, and the birth of their Son, the Logos, is discussed by

Margaret Barker in good detail in her book "The Great High Priest," pp. 237f. In

fact, when God said let us make mankind in OUR image, (used at the beginning of

this research) it was Wisdom, the Mother, to whom he was talking to! (Barker, p.

237).

In the Gospel of the Hebrews, as Jerome, the early Church father quoted it,

Jesus described the Holy Spirit as "My Mother." (See Barker, p. 243). So we

actually see then that the Spirit, the Ruach, the Mother, Sheikhinah, Wisdom,

Holy One of Israel, Eloah, Elah, appears in the scripture from the very

beginning right through to today. There is much more to this than what I have

slapped together so speedily, but you get the idea.

~End article.

Did any of the early Latter Day Saints pray to Heavenly Mother?

[Guest]

This thread is 5 years old. :zombie:

I didn't realize Snow was in banned camp.

[beefche]

Thread closed.