What Is *official* Doctrine?

[Snow]

YOU SAID IT, DOVE! I'm with you and for one am sick of the negativity I've read in Snow's posts.

"Thumper! What did your father tell you this morning?" Remember, Snow, this is a public forum and your nastiness has been duly noted. As a novice poster but a lifelong member of the church with probably more years in me than you (I deduce this from the tenor of your posts), I particularly am offended. And yes, I hold a current TR and am personally devoted to the Savior and His Gospel.

Yeah - I don't fall for that self-righteous goo. It's trite and meaningless.

Now - what do they call it when someone posts a negative rant complaing about someone else's negativity?

I think that would be 'the practice of claiming to have moral standards or beliefs to which one's own behavior does not conform; pretense.' In other words - hypocrisy. Now do you see why I'm not buying your self-righteous gig?

[roman]

The Church - deliberately - has no systematic theology and no one place that you can turn to to learn what we believe. The spirit behind the Church is spirit of prophecy and we do not define ourselves or limit ourselves by creeds and comprehensive promulgations.

roman says

While this may appear to be a true statement it does have a hole or 2 in it. First of all there is an official procedure for things becoming lds doctrine. I am sure that somewhere their is a listing of all official church doctrine. It is out of that that, that a systematic theology is determenied and developed. But even in all of that -------I agree with you snow that the lds church is not and should not be limited to that.

snow says

It the most fundamental sense, the scriptures consititute the core of our beliefs. They are the canon, the standard by which we measure all else. To that you should consider what is officially published by the Church under the auspices of the First Presidency as approved to be accepted doctrine but only insofar as it is consistent with the canon. All else may be good and it may be true but in practical terms it is commentary, opinion and interpretation.

roman says

This is very very good statement---to bad most lds don't agree or practice these very thought of yours

That is one of the reasons its very very hard to pin a mormon down on specific church doctrine because there may not be a difining point established by the lds church on a particular matter

sorry one of these days I will get the proper posting method down

[pam]

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Can't we do this without the massive cut and pastes?

It so much more engaging if you simply state your argument, use a few relevant quotes and link to additional supporting material when necessary.

I'm with you Snow. I have no time to be reading multiple cut and pastes. That is one my peeve with many posts. If people want to post their opinions then do so. The key word being "their." Not multiple opinions from multiple sources cut and pasted so that the poster appears more intelligent. I lose interest very quickly.

Pam, wasn't that dilemma already solved between Snow and Gaia? I don't want to be rude. I'm very grateful for all the quotes Gaia uses-I learn a lot from them. Also, No, I don't believe Gaia is trying to appear more intelligent by quoting many sources of church leadership. I think she doesn't have to prove her intellligence-it's apparent.

Also, imho, wouldn't it be better for you and Snow, as mediators, to go to Gaia directly in a -kind- pm with your criticism/concerns, rather than the open arguing and belittling? I value the directive of this website, to kindly respect the beliefs of others. Just a suggestion~ Dove

For one thing it was not directed at Gaia. I'm sorry if it appeared I was singling her out. I was not. I used Snows statement about cut and paste to state my own dislike of them. It was a general blanket statement meant for all that use them continually.

[Snow]

Snow says:

The Church - deliberately - has no systematic theology and no one place that you can turn to to learn what we believe. The spirit behind the Church is spirit of prophecy and we do not define ourselves or limit ourselves by creeds and comprehensive promulgations.

roman says

While this may appear to be a true statement it does have a hole or 2 in it. First of all there is an official procedure for things becoming lds doctrine. I am sure that somewhere their is a listing of all official church doctrine. It is out of that that, that a systematic theology is determenied and developed. But even in all of that -------I agree with you snow that the lds church is not and should not be limited to that.

Nope - there is no official listing of LDS doctrines. There is no catchism where you can turn to find out. Individuals will sometimes write books - for example Bruce R McKonkie and Mormon Doctrine - but those are not Church publications. The closest you can come is the Encyclopedia of Mormonism but that is not official either and the Church takes pains to make sure people understand it is not officially sanctioned doctrine. In my opinion is is close however.

snow says

It the most fundamental sense, the scriptures consititute the core of our beliefs. They are the canon, the standard by which we measure all else. To that you should consider what is officially published by the Church under the auspices of the First Presidency as approved to be accepted doctrine but only insofar as it is consistent with the canon. All else may be good and it may be true but in practical terms it is commentary, opinion and interpretation.

roman says

This is very very good statement---to bad most lds don't agree or practice these very thought of yours

That is one of the reasons its very very hard to pin a mormon down on specific church doctrine because there may not be a difining point established by the lds church on a particular matter

I disagree to a point. Most educated Mormons agree. As with any group, there are plenty who haven't gone to the trouble of studying before deciding...

sorry one of these days I will get the proper posting method down

No worries.

[BenRaines]

I would say that most practicing Mormons have the same beliefs in doctrine. That doctrine can be found in the Standard Works and in the current teaching manuals of the church. You will not find taught there the Adam-God theory, Heavenly Mother, the teaching that the followers of Satan having one last opportunity at the end of time to be saved or other fringe thoughts or feelings.

I think most need to start with the first two commandments as taught by Christ. Love the Lord and your neighbor as thyself. On that is hinged all the laws of the kingdom.

Practice of the first four principles and ordinances of the gospel and grow from there.

Just some of my thoughts.

Ben Raines

[roman]

I would say that most practicing Mormons have the same beliefs in doctrine. That doctrine can be found in the Standard Works and in the current teaching manuals of the church.

roman says

My thoughts also--as in the doctrines can be found. if they can be found then they can be listed

[Snow]

roman says

My thoughts also--as in the doctrines can be found. if they can be found then they can be listed

Yes - they can but our Church does not.

In my opinion, if you want to best understand our doctrine, read Jesus the Christ and The Articles of Faith by Talmage.

Roman, for quoting... put the word quote in brackets [] to start the quote and finish the quote by puting /quote in brackets.

If you use the quote button, it happens automatically.

I would say that most practicing Mormons have the same beliefs in doctrine. That doctrine can be found in the Standard Works and in the current teaching manuals of the church. You will not find taught there the Adam-God theory, Heavenly Mother, the teaching that the followers of Satan having one last opportunity at the end of time to be saved or other fringe thoughts or feelings.

I think most need to start with the first two commandments as taught by Christ. Love the Lord and your neighbor as thyself. On that is hinged all the laws of the kingdom.

Practice of the first four principles and ordinances of the gospel and grow from there.

Just some of my thoughts.

Ben Raines

What I find objectionable is not that someone believes something that is non-doctrinal, true or untrue. but it's wrong and false to say that such things are doctrinal and scriptural.

[roman]

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roman says

My thoughts also--as in the doctrines can be found. if they can be found then they can be listed

from snow

Yes - they can but our Church does not.

In my opinion, if you want to best understand our doctrine, read Jesus the Christ and The Articles of Faith by Talmage.

Roman, for quoting... put the word quote in brackets [] to start the quote and finish the quote by puting /quote in brackets.

If you use the quote button, it happens automatically.

roman says

Thanks for the posting lesson snow, but for some reasons sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. I think its my PC acting out. Aand for some reason it didn't work this time-I did it excatly like you said

And my point is this -------just because the church doesn't list official doctrine doesn not mean that a person can't list it. The lds church does have official standing on most Christian ideas--practices--etc. That is what makes it LDS and say not catholic or Methodist

[Snow]

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roman says

My thoughts also--as in the doctrines can be found. if they can be found then they can be listed

from snow

Yes - they can but our Church does not.

In my opinion, if you want to best understand our doctrine, read Jesus the Christ and The Articles of Faith by Talmage.

Roman, for quoting... put the word quote in brackets [] to start the quote and finish the quote by puting /quote in brackets.

If you use the quote button, it happens automatically.

roman says

Thanks for the posting lesson snow, but for some reasons sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. I think its my PC acting out. Aand for some reason it didn't work this time-I did it excatly like you said

Your problem seems to be when you try and quote a quote that contains a quote. Somehow it looks like you removed a ending /quote inside of the brackets [] at the end of the word "automatically." I added it back in for you and it posts correctly. If you are posting quotes inside of quotes, you need multiple starting quote []'s and multiple ending /quotes []'s.

Using the edit feature, go back and take a look at your post above as a corrected example

And my point is this -------just because the church doesn't list official doctrine doesn not mean that a person can't list it. The lds church does have official standing on most Christian ideas--practices--etc. That is what makes it LDS and say not catholic or Methodist

People can and some people do... but it represents THEIR opinion, not the official Church position.

[roman]

People can and some people do... but it represents THEIR opinion, not the official Church position.

roman say

So your saying if I list, say the churchs doctrine of baptism for the dead or the doctrine of the atonement that even though its offical church doctrine and found in the standard works---------------its just an opinion and not officail?

sorry still working on the quote thing---my computer genusis son says its my pc

[Snow]

People can and some people do... but it represents THEIR opinion, not the official Church position.

roman say

So your saying if I list, say the churchs doctrine of baptism for the dead or the doctrine of the atonement that even though its offical church doctrine and found in the standard works---------------its just an opinion and not officail?

sorry still working on the quote thing---my computer genusis son says its my pc

Roman,

I don't think it's your computer. Go back and edit your post. Add the word quote in brackets [] at the very beginning of your post.

So your saying if I list, say the churchs doctrine of baptism for the dead or the doctrine of the atonement that even though its offical church doctrine and found in the standard works---------------its just an opinion and not officail?

Those things are official Church doctrine or doctrines of Jesus Christ and hence not just opinion.

What you have to say about the topics, however, must conform to the LDS Canon else it is simply interpretation of doctrine, not actual doctrine.