"the Churches Stance On _______"

[antispatula]

You hear it all the time.

"What is the churches stance on caffiene?"

"Well, once my bishop said it was bad, so we shouldn't drink it."

"Is is ok to get plastic surgery?"

"I've heard that once a church leader said it was bad."

"Is the church ok with _____?"

"Well, in Mormon Doctrine, is states that...."

Does anyone see the great problem with all these examples?

People all the time rely on heresay, what their bishops opinion on the matter is,

or even what a general authority says on the matter to make their decision

on whether or not it's "right," whatever "it" may be.

I think this is a grossly underestimated problem with people in the church.

The only thing we should care about is what God has to say about it.

Time and time again we have been told through scriptures and talks

That the ONLY PERSON ON EARTH that can introduce new "doctrine" for the church,

is the Prophet of God.

Anything your bishop says, anything you "think you've heard," anything that even a general authority has said that is "new material" or a new idea of what is ok or not ok, is relatively unimportant, because only revalation from God is absolute and automatically correct, and the only person on earth who has

the ability to speak for God is the Prophet or the Church.

There is no such thing as "The Churches Stance."

By all means, give church leaders a good listen, even though you are under no obligation to follow it if you disagree with it if it is not revelation from God, because there's a huge chance whatever they're saying is wise!

My point however, is that church leaders are entitled to their own opinions, they certainly show themselves in their talks and articles you read in the Ensign, and if you hear something that sounds off, or wrong that a leader has said, fret not, because only the Prophet has the right to introduce doctrine.

Does anyone agree? Disagree?

By all means, state your honest and sincere opinion!

Toodles :)

[russell]

props man, my thoughts exactly.

Alas, I'm afraid there are many people in the church that are a tad uptight, and think that every specific thing they do must be "OK'd" by a "church stance."

You're right on bro. While Church Leaders are here to help us through our lives, they are under no authority to introduce new rules or "do not's" unless they are the prophet of God, and luckily, the Prophet usually does not say "whats ok and whats not" about every little thing.

Talking about the whole plastic surgery and caffiene examples, to each his own man.

Since God, through his prophet has not said anything specific about them, we are free to choose for ourselves.

[a-train]

It's the LORD's stance that we need.

-a-train

[antispatula]

a-train,

you just summed up what I was trying to relate in my post in 7 words.

I wish I had your way with words!

[siouxz72]

props man, my thoughts exactly.

Alas, I'm afraid there are many people in the church that are a tad uptight, and think that every specific thing they do must be "OK'd" by a "church stance."

You're right on bro. While Church Leaders are here to help us through our lives, they are under no authority to introduce new rules or "do not's" unless they are the prophet of God, and luckily, the Prophet usually does not say "whats ok and whats not" about every little thing.

Talking about the whole plastic surgery and caffiene examples, to each his own man.

Since God, through his prophet has not said anything specific about them, we are free to choose for ourselves.

russell... are you by any chance related to our beloved Doctor Steuss? :) your use of the word "man" is positively groovey

[Annabelli]

I understand that plastic surgery is to be used for healing only. Because many medications contain caffiene, you cannot abandon it's use for healing. Caffiene is a component of so many things that you really cannot separate yourself from it.

You really have to study the biology of plants to understand the different properties of coffee and tea. As an example, you can remove a tomato from the vine but you cannot remove the affects of the vine from the tomato. And just so, you cannot remove the fertilzation which influnces the natural development of plants.

[Snow]

Does anyone see the great problem with all these examples?

People all the time rely on heresay, what their bishops opinion on the matter is,

or even what a general authority says on the matter to make their decision

on whether or not it's "right," whatever "it" may be.

I think this is a grossly underestimated problem with people in the church.

Great problem?

Sounds dire. What's the problem - that they might disagree with you?

The only thing we should care about is what God has to say about it.

I guess the only place you take advice/instruction is directly from God. I, on the other hand, am willing to take good advice - whatever it's source.

I guess your point it that you should confuse opinion with doctrine but you other points - that is a great problem - that you only care what God says (God who doesn't really say anything directly) is not helpful.

[antispatula]

Great problem?

Sounds dire. What's the problem - that they might disagree with you?

No, that people take heresay as doctrine, I thought in my post I made that clear.

I guess the only place you take advice/instruction is directly from God. I, on the other hand, am willing to take good advice - whatever it's source.

I guess your point it that you should confuse opinion with doctrine but you other points - that is a great problem - that you only care what God says (God who doesn't really say anything directly) is not helpful.

Again you misunderstand, as I said, good advice should always be given a good listen, but to say the opinion of a church leader is final and absolutely correct is silly.

And yes it is a great problem.

I understand that plastic surgery is to be used for healing only. Because many medications contain caffiene, you cannot abandon it's use for healing. Caffiene is a component of so many things that you really cannot separate yourself from it.

You really have to study the biology of plants to understand the different properties of coffee and tea. As an example, you can remove a tomato from the vine but you cannot remove the affects of the vine from the tomato. And just so, you cannot remove the fertilzation which influnces the natural development of plants.

Annabelli,

When you say you understand plastic surgery is to be only used for healing,

can I ask why you say that?

[Annabelli]

<div class='quotemain'>

I understand that plastic surgery is to be used for healing only. Because many medications contain caffiene, you cannot abandon it's use for healing. Caffiene is a component of so many things that you really cannot separate yourself from it.

You really have to study the biology of plants to understand the different properties of coffee and tea. As an example, you can remove a tomato from the vine but you cannot remove the affects of the vine from the tomato. And just so, you cannot remove the fertilzation which influnces the natural development of plants.

Annabelli,

When you say you understand plastic surgery is to be only used for healing,

can I ask why you say that?

There are many circumstances where plastic surgery is used to correct medical problems. With age, the skin above the eyes may start to droop over the eye and is corrected with plastic surgery. People will suffer broken noses, sometimes more than once, and when the scarred tissue presents a medical problem, plastic surgery is used to remove the tissue. Ear canals are often misshaped which causes problems and sometimes deafness and disease. Some people are born with a portion of an ear and plastic surgeons are able to construct the rest of the ear. People with under developed tongues and tongues which have been damaged through accident can be taken care of with plastic surgery. Someone who has to have a shoulder bone removed because of cancer can have a generic replacement so that their skeletal frame and posture is not affected by the loss which oftens creates the growth of more cancer. Eye muscles are often corrected by plastic surgeons so that they eyes focus in a straight path rather than "cross eyes" or one "lazy eye."

Did you just think that vanity kept these doctors paid? This is the medical picture outside of Hollywood.

[snipe123]

I understand that plastic surgery is to be used for healing only. Because many medications contain caffiene, you cannot abandon it's use for healing. Caffiene is a component of so many things that you really cannot separate yourself from it.

You really have to study the biology of plants to understand the different properties of coffee and tea. As an example, you can remove a tomato from the vine but you cannot remove the affects of the vine from the tomato. And just so, you cannot remove the fertilzation which influnces the natural development of plants.

I would like to know where we get our ideas about caffene? I don't drink caffeine because it gives me a headache and I do not wish to rely on a substance to take care of my natural bodily energy and wakefulness cycles...I don't think it has anything to do with The Word of Wisdom(I realize you did not say that, but I am assuming that you are refering to caffene within that framework) ...I don't know of any official church doctrine on that subject...we don't partake of hot drinks which is interpreted as coffee and tea...whats in coffee and tea? Oh, caffeine, so it must be caffene we need to avoid...this makes no sense to me...Has there been an official Church doctrine on the subject of caffene?If not, then I wish people would stop taliking about it as though it is doctrine...If it is doctrine, I would be happy to know it...In the meantime, the health benefits of avoiding addiction to caffene are evident, but I am still not so sure this is church doctrine...In the meantime everyone should seek the will of the Lord on the subject for themselves...

Does anyone know of an official church discussion on the subject of caffene?

[Annabelli]

Caffeine is also present in most of our clothing. The most unique form of caffeine is present in pure silk.

[Aphrodite]

<div class='quotemain'>

I understand that plastic surgery is to be used for healing only. Because many medications contain caffiene, you cannot abandon it's use for healing. Caffiene is a component of so many things that you really cannot separate yourself from it.

You really have to study the biology of plants to understand the different properties of coffee and tea. As an example, you can remove a tomato from the vine but you cannot remove the affects of the vine from the tomato. And just so, you cannot remove the fertilzation which influnces the natural development of plants.

I would like to know where we get our ideas about caffene? I don't drink caffeine because it gives me a headache and I do not wish to rely on a substance to take care of my natural bodily energy and wakefulness cycles...I don't think it has anything to do with The Word of Wisdom(I realize you did not say that, but I am assuming that you are refering to caffene within that framework) ...I don't know of any official church doctrine on that subject...we don't partake of hot drinks which is interpreted as coffee and tea...whats in coffee and tea? Oh, caffeine, so it must be caffene we need to avoid...this makes no sense to me...Has there been an official Church doctrine on the subject of caffene?If not, then I wish people would stop taliking about it as though it is doctrine...If it is doctrine, I would be happy to know it...In the meantime, the health benefits of avoiding addiction to caffene are evident, but I am still not so sure this is church doctrine...In the meantime everyone should seek the will of the Lord on the subject for themselves...

Does anyone know of an official church discussion on the subject of caffene?

I utterly agree. Why people take that and profess it is doctrine ill never know. I think there is 'advice' from GBH but again only his advice. I doubt there would be a clear cut quote saying NO CAFFEINE anywhere. As you mention, theres other substances in teas and coffee besides caffeine, why doesnt anybody mention those??

[antispatula]

Did you just think that vanity kept these doctors paid? This is the medical picture outside of Hollywood.

Thanks for the hearfelt post.

Do you believe all plastic surgery that is not corrective or medical in nature is vain?

I don't have any reason to get plastic surgery done, but my Mother, who is LDS too,

has gotten breast augmentation done. I asked her why she wanted it done in the first place,

and she said she didn't like the way she looked in the mirror, and that she would really feel better

about herself personally if she got them redone. Not bigger, but to help with the sagging that often comes

after being a mother of 4 children. She is not a vain person at all; she did it because it made her feel

better about herself; the only person who sees her breasts are herself and her husband (my dad).

Does anyone know of an official church discussion on the subject of caffene?

There is none. If it has anything to do with the WoW, it is subjective.

Caffiene is addictive (although I am not, and drink Dr. Pepper quite often)

and dialates blood veins, and therefore makes certain medicines work faster.

So it obviously has good and bad points to it. But the prophet of the church

has never said anything black and white about caffiene, and is not in any standard

work.

By the way, you say it gives you headaches....Most people say it alleviates migranes and headaches!

Just food for thought