The Three Levels of Heaven

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

OH!  Levels!  Brilliant!  Art School could help you.  LOL!!!

Seriously!?!  You couldn't tell those were levels?  Hmmm.  Art school might help you to...uhm... identify what it is you're looking at.

I don't get it.  You saw the "eye" in your avatar at one glance.  How did you not see those were levels?

Ok.  I'll get down off this fairly short Shetland.

Edited November 14, 2017 by Guest

[anatess2]

15 minutes ago, Carborendum said:

Seriously!?!  You couldn't tell those were levels?  Hmmm.  Art school might help you to...uhm... identify what it is you're looking at.

I don't get it.  You saw the "eye" in your avatar at one glance.  How did you not see those were levels?

Ok.  I'll get down off this fairly short Shetland.

This is what I saw... 

1.)  Short fastener

2.)  Long fastener

3.)  My son's scope on his rifle.  And yes, it can change colors - one of which is Orange!  It also has the night-vision... pretty cool actually.

[zil]

35 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

OH!  Levels!  Brilliant!  Art School could help you.  LOL!!!

Yeah, my Lamy blue-black is WAAAAAY better than that one.  

And not sure if it's the nib or the ink but it doesn't seem to be as smooth flowing.

[anatess2]

24 minutes ago, zil said:

 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, anatess2 said:

This is what I saw... 

1.)  Short fastener

2.)  Long fastener

3.)  My son's scope on his rifle.  And yes, it can change colors - one of which is Orange!  It also has the night-vision... pretty cool actually.

I kinda see the scope, but the bubble was a dead give away.  The fasteners?  What fastener can you find a picture of that looks like that?

BTW, this is actually on topic because those who make it to the Celestial Kingdom will be judged on how well they can interpret @zil's fountain pen drawings.  Those who mistake them for other things are actually Terrestrial material unless they can give ample evidence to redeem themselves.  The Telestial Kingdom is reserved for people like me who can't use a fountain pen to save their lives.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, anatess2 said:

You know, I sent a request to Franklin Covey to get a new cover for their planners that looks like:

https://www.amazon.com/Tinksky-Notebook-Journal-Jotter-Loose-leaf/dp/B014CVTB84/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1510685898&sr=8-3&keywords=pirate+binder&dpID=5178Yrj3d3L&preST=_SY300_QL70_&dpSrc=srch

But to this day, they haven't developed on yet.  Shame.

They even come in a variety of colors including teal, green, blue, red, and many more.  I want a green one that can hold Franklin planners!!

Edited November 14, 2017 by Guest

[zil]

14 minutes ago, anatess2 said:

 

[anatess2]

3 hours ago, Carborendum said:

I kinda see the scope, but the bubble was a dead give away.  The fasteners?  What fastener can you find a picture of that looks like that?

BTW, this is actually on topic because those who make it to the Celestial Kingdom will be judged on how well they can interpret @zil's fountain pen drawings.  Those who mistake them for other things are actually Terrestrial material unless they can give ample evidence to redeem themselves.  The Telestial Kingdom is reserved for people like me who can't use a fountain pen to save their lives.

Oh gee, thanks.  I'm just gonna slink to my terrestrial home now. 

 

[anatess2]

2 hours ago, zil said:

 

My Lamy Studio with the blue-blank ink flows PERFECT.  Like peach and cream perfect.  Lamy blue-black is only going on Lamy Studio, thank you.  I'm still trying to figure out what my kids did to my A1-star.  Somebody took off with it and did not give it back!

[anatess2]

P.S.  I purposely got the pink color just so my kids won't want to use it.  I'm thinking one kid was showing it off to his girlfriend.... 

[brlenox]

On ‎10‎/‎31‎/‎2017 at 4:14 PM, Blossom76 said:

Well Bible Study didn't go my way

1st Corinthians 15:40-42 - my husband explained to me that this is about the resurrection and it is talking about the difference between our heavenly and earthly bodies.  I was a bit blindsided so I asked him to show me, we have an interlinear bible so he could show me in the original Greek.  The words they use is 'epourania' which literally means Heavenly but in the king james was translated as celestial, the other word is 'epigeia' which literally means 'on land' or 'earthly' again the king james translates it as terrestrial.

"There are also heavenly bodies and earthly bodies, but the glory of the heavenly is one, and the glory of the earthly is another. There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars; for star differs from star in glory.So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown a perishable body, it is raised an imperishable body;"

I tried not to get upset because I couldn't argue it because he was factually correct so I moved onto 2nd Corinthians 12:2 - if Paul was called up to the third Heaven obviously there is a 1st and 2nd Heaven right?  Apparently not, to ancient Jews the third heaven just meant actual heaven, to them the first heaven was the clouds, the second heaven was the stars, and the third heaven was heaven where God and Jesus was.  So when a Jew said the third heaven that's what they meant. My husband is very well educated and I just felt silly in the end, he wasn't mean about it, in fact he was very understanding, and could see how someone would misinterpret these verses.  I just let him lead the rest of the study.

Can anyone help me with any other passages that help prove the validity of the teaching of the three heavens? Please help.

I hope you will not object to an observation about such interactions as you are having with your husband. The Gospel of Jesus Christ is second an intellectual endeavor, but first and foremost it is a spiritual endeavor.  Study the Book of Mormon and other insights as you feel directed but keep in mind that when you read of something such as the three heavens, as someone trying to wrap your arms around LDS theology, deep understanding is probably a ways off, but you may find as you study that while you are still developing your intellectual perceptions, that the spirit will still convey the sense of spiritual correctness.  These sensations become the foundations for faith which acts completely independent of intellectual prowess.  While it may seem counter-intuitive to some faith is far more powerful to the sustaining power of God than intellectualism alone. As someone who has spent the better part of his life in intellectual analysis of theological subjects I would never mistake that the foundation of my efforts is my faith in Jesus Christ and testimony of Apostles and prophets and scripture. 

Intellectual comparisons of tedious bits of knowledge and tangibles in theological arenas and such will never be adequate to change minds in the ways that matter most. Though you should grow to understand 10 times more than your husband it will not be enough most likely to persuade someone of his competency.  However, convert yourself, and let him watch the changes in you, receive the Gift of the Holy Ghost through baptism and bring that spirit into your home and in spite of all of the books of knowledge of things Jewish, Greek, or of hermeneutics and traditions, these things will in time bear sway over any genuine seeker of Christ. 

While I consider the issues of Jewish heaven secondary to what I have said above, I'm going to risk that someone else may already have contributed this information to this thread and offer a couple of insights.  First it is always a little difficult to expound on what the Jews teach about many things, as various traditions, Rabbi's, doctrinal upsets, and so on provide periods of reconsideration of doctrine and thus changes occur. It is an old religion and much can be adjusted over thousands of years.  The second challenge is predicted on the first but there is much in modern Judaism and Mystical Judaism which are significant perversions away from what I consider the more enlightened ancient Judaism and Kabbalism.

Concerning the number of heavens in ancient Jewish teaching one of the more common traditions is that there are seven heavens or shamayim. One of the earliest references, before it was altered by the Eastern Orthodox Church was the book of Enoch 2 or the Slavonic Enoch which referenced the seven heavens. Then of course the Zohar, perhaps the oldest Jewish text claims 390 Heavens but it also changes the context of discussion of the nature of heaven.  So it is useful in a different way than the discussions on the 7 heavens which share many common points with LDS theology.  I'm not going to expand more as to really grasp this material is a lot of research study and effort but it is illustrated in one of Judaism most well known concepts, that of the Ten Sefirot. Still it is always an easy thing to claim the Jews believed this or that but upon further research it tends to embrace a much broader perspective than the comparisons to traditional Christianity allow. If you are interested I found this link which gives a reasonable overview:

https://stjudasmaccabaeus.wordpress.com/2012/10/04/the-mystery-of-the-judeochristian-seven-heavens/

I'm am still of a mind that you can seldom achieve the success in conversion by matching wits intellectually when the peaceful ways of the spirit bow not to the superior in knowledge but softly and gently move past all barriers to speak to the heart of his sheep. 

Edited November 17, 2017 by brlenox