The Millenium

[MorningStar]

I did not realise that there will be no disease or death during Christ's millennial reign on the earth. That is certainly something to also look forward to.

Sure is! Having had so many health problems, I look forward to Christ's return and to feeling good.

[Jeny]

Sure is! Having had so many health problems, I look forward to Christ's return and to feeling good.

You ain't kiddin'!!!!!!

[cobra]

I am in agreement with you here, I believe that Satan will be "bound" during those 1000 years, but the binding will be because of the righteousness of the saints, he will be unable to do any of his evil. The "chains" that bind him will be our righteous hearts.

That is incorrect. Satan will be bound by divine decree, not because of the rightness of the Saints. Anyone who is Unrighteous won't be there. There will also be many there who are not saints. But the binding is literal and is done by God. It is not something that occurs as a result of our beingness. Regardless of our level of righteousness, Satan will be bound by God, probably because Christ will reign personally on the earth during that period and Satan cannot endure is presence.

Cobra- some citation would nice. So far all we have is your assertion.

Also- I'm losing your link below. We do not promote website that sponsor or endorse that kind of trash.

You are being watched and this will be your last warning.

You may either contribute something positive and definitive or find another site to hang out at.

Honos

[MorningStar]

From Elder Delbert L. Stapley:

The only way Satan can be bound is for people to forsake his temptations and enticements to do evil, and to walk uprightly and circumspectly before the Lord. (See 1 Tim. 6:5–7.)

Full article here

[Sheelah]

Hmm, this reminds me of when Christ came to the Nephites and there was 400 years afterwards of righteousness. I would say that their level of righteousness kept Satan at bay. So that concept makes sense to me, but then after 1000 years Satan is to be release from his bondage to have one last go at us, what causes that then I wonder? Same as before, some people opening the door?

[cobra]

Well, I wouldn't think that I would have to verify something like this to anyone that was well-read but, OK, here goes:

Mormon Doctrine, Elder Bruce R. McConkie, Millennium, Page 495:

"When we speak of the binding of Satan in connection with the millennium, we mean that he will be bound during that era, that his powers will be limited after that day commences, and not that men will turn to righteousness so as to tie the hands of Satan, thereby bringing millennial conditions to pass. The plan does not call for men to turn voluntarily to righteousness thereby causing the thousand year era of peace to commence. Rather, the millennium will be brought about by power".

Honos: regarding your rude smart-aleck remarks, perhaps if you would inform me as to what kind of trash you like I could accomodate you more.

[Sheelah]

Satan Bound

During the Millennium, Satan will be bound. This means he will not have power to tempt those who are living at that time (see D&C 101:28). The “children shall grow up without sin unto salvation” (D&C 45:58). “Because of the righteousness of his people, Satan has no power; wherefore, he cannot be loosed for the space of many years; for he hath no power over the hearts of the people, for they dwell in righteousness, and the Holy One of Israel reigneth” (1 Nephi 22:26).

Chapter 44: The Millennium,” Gospel Principles, 282

This seems to say that both the righteousness of the people and Christ reigning keeps Satan bound. It is not our righteousness that starts the millennium, but the righteousness of the people during it, whatever religion they are, will help to keep Satan bound.

[drjme]

I was under the assumption that we are 'twinked' at the point in time we would die during the millenium. being that we would not experience death but our 'mortal bodies would be twinked into our resurrected bodies. could be wrong though, better check my scriptures.

[MorningStar]

I was under the assumption that we are 'twinked' at the point in time we would die during the millenium. being that we would not experience death but our 'mortal bodies would be twinked into our resurrected bodies. could be wrong though, better check my scriptures.

You're not "twinked" until you reach 100 years old. :)

[HiJolly]

Well, I wouldn't think that I would have to verify something like this to anyone that was well-read but, OK, here goes:

Mormon Doctrine, Elder Bruce R. McConkie, Millennium, Page 495:

"When we speak of the binding of Satan in connection with the millennium, we mean that he will be bound during that era, that his powers will be limited after that day commences, and not that men will turn to righteousness so as to tie the hands of Satan, thereby bringing millennial conditions to pass. The plan does not call for men to turn voluntarily to righteousness thereby causing the thousand year era of peace to commence. Rather, the millennium will be brought about by power".

Honos: regarding your rude smart-aleck remarks, perhaps if you would inform me as to what kind of trash you like I could accomodate you more.

Oooh, attitude!

Elder McConkie, while a wonderful man, never did have the authority to declare doctrine. Ever. Not in Mormon Doctrine, where he made literally hundreds of doctrinal errors, and not in his Conference talks, and not in this BYU addresses, and not in his Messiah series. So, don't go hanging your doctrinal hat on Elder McConkie.

HiJolly

[cobra]

Oooh, attitude!

Elder McConkie, while a wonderful man, never did have the authority to declare doctrine. Ever. Not in Mormon Doctrine, where he made literally hundreds of doctrinal errors, and not in his Conference talks, and not in this BYU addresses, and not in his Messiah series. So, don't go hanging your doctrinal hat on Elder McConkie.

HiJolly

All General Authorities have authority to declare doctrine. That's why they are called General Authorities. Hundreds of doctrinal errors?? You sound like an apostate. I sure won't hang my "doctrinal hat" on your pointed head.

General Authorities have the authority to declare doctrine- not to create it.

That process lies with the First Presidency, the Quorum of the Twelve and the Seventies- and then with the Church through common consent.

Pack your bags, Cobra- you're done here. The unsubstantiated personal attack on HiJolly was your final strike.

As to your "response" to me directly- I was referring specifically to the anti-Semetic tripe you linked to as your "site". There is no room whatever on this board for that kind of blatant racism- and none for your misbehavior.

Honos

[HiJolly]

All General Authorities have authority to declare doctrine. That's why they are called General Authorities. Hundreds of doctrinal errors?? You sound like an apostate. I sure won't hang my "doctrinal hat" on your pointed head.

I'm wondering, cobra, what informs your opinion. Please read the recent statement put out by the Church here: http://www.lds.org/ldsnewsroom/v/index.jsp...0004e94610aRCRD

Or, look it up at the Church's web site www.lds.org under the link 'Newsroom' (lower right hand side) and then click on the link 'Commentary'. page down a bit to an article dated 4 May 2007 titled "Approaching Mormon Doctrine".

Here's the first bullet point therein:

• Not every statement made by a Church leader, past or present, necessarily constitutes doctrine.1 A single statement made by a single leader on a single occasion often represents a personal, though well-considered, opinion, but is not meant to be officially binding for the whole Church. With divine inspiration, the First Presidency (the prophet and his two counselors) and the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles (the second-highest governing body of the Church) counsel together to establish doctrine that is consistently proclaimed in official Church publications.2 This doctrine resides in the four “standard works” of scripture (the Holy Bible, the Book of Mormon, the Doctrine and Covenants and the Pearl of Great Price), official declarations and proclamations, and the Articles of Faith.3 Isolated statements are often taken out of context, leaving their original meaning distorted.

1. This includes books, conference talks, and Ensign articles.

2. Doctrine is only declared by the First Presidency and the Twelve. Together. You will see what they declare in official Church publications.

3. Doctrine resides in only three (3) places:

A. The four standard works

B. First Presidency declarations and proclamations

C. The Articles of Faith.

I encourage everyone to read the article.

HiJolly

[HiJolly]

All General Authorities have authority to declare doctrine. That's why they are called General Authorities. Hundreds of doctrinal errors?? You sound like an apostate. I sure won't hang my "doctrinal hat" on your pointed head.

The attached items are entries from Pres. David O. McKay's office journal on

the subject of Bruce R. McConkie's book "Mormon Doctrine", during the period

following its original publication.

- --------------------

March 5, 1959: Elder Mark E. Petersen and Elder Marion G. Romney called at

my request. I asked them if they would together go over Elder Bruce R.

McConkie's book, "Mormon Doctrine" and make a list of the corrections that

should be made preparatory to his sending out an addendum to all members of

the Church who have purchased his book.

- --------------------

Jan. 7, 1960: 10:15 to 12:45 p.m. RE: The Book--"Mormon Doctrine". The

First Presidency met with Elders Mark E. Petersen and Marion G. Romney. They

submitted their report upon their examination of the book "Mormon Doctrine"

by Elder Bruce McConkie. These brethren reported that the manuscript of the

book "Mormon Doctrine" had not been read by the reading committee, that

President Joseph Fielding Smith did not know anything about it until it was

published. Elder Petersen states that the extent of the corrections which he

had marked in his copy of the book (1067) affected most of the 776 pages of

the book. He also said that he thought the brethren should be under the

rule that no book should be published without a specific approval of the

First Presidency. I stated that the decision of the First Presidency and

the Committee should be announced to the Twelve. It was agreed that the

necessary corrections are so numerous that to republish a corrected edition

of the book would be such an extensive repudiation of the original as to

destroy the credit of the author; that the republication of the book should

be forbidden and that the book should be repudiated in such a way as to save

the career of the author as one of the General Authorities of the Church.

It was also agreed that this decision should be announced to the Council of

the Twelve before I talk to the author. Elder Petersen will prepare an

editorial for publication in the Improvement Era, stating the principle of

approval of books on Church doctrine. A rough draft will be submitted to us

for approval.

- --------------------

Jan. 7, 1960 [part of a letter addressed to David O. McKay from Marion G.

Romney, dated January 28, 1959]. The author is an able and thorough student

of the gospel. In many respects he has produced a remarkable book. Properly

used, it quickly introduces the student to the authorities on most any

gospel subject. As to the book itself, notwithstanding its many commendable

and valuable features and the author's assumption of "sole and full

responsibility" for it, its nature and scope and the authoritative tone of

the style in which it is written pose the question as to the propriety of

the author's attempting such a project without assignment and supervision

from him whose right and responsibility it is to speak for the Church on

"Mormon Doctrine." Had the work been authoritatively supervised, some of

the following matters might have been omitted and the treatment of others

modified.

A. References to churches and other groups who do not accept "Mormon

Doctrine."

1. Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, who sometimes

refer to themselves as "Josephites." (Exhibit II-1, pages 50, 141, 362)

2. "Christian Churches" generally. (Exhibit II-2, pages 139, 455)

3. "Catholic Church." (Exhibit II-3, pages 13, 66, 129, 130, 216, 241, 242,

314-315, 342, 346, 350, 422, 499, 511, 697)

4. Communists and Catholics. (Exhibit II-4, pages 26-7, 131)

5. Evolution and Evolutionists (Exhibit II-5, pages 37, 77, 136, 180, 228,

238, 659)

B. Declaration as to "Mormon Doctrine" on controversial issues.

1. "Pre-Adamites." (Exhibit III-1, pages 17, 262)

2. Status of Animals and Plants in the Garden of Eden. (Exhibit III-2, pages

36, 234-35)

3. Meaning of the various accounts of Creation. (Exhibit III-3, pages 157-8,

167-8)

4. Dispensation of Abraham. (Exhibit III-4, page 203)

5. Moses as a translated being. (Exhibit III-5, pages 206, 445, 466, 727-8)

6. Origin of Individuality. (Exhibit III-6, page 404)

7. Defiling the priesthood. (Exhibit III-7, page 437)

8. Manner in which Jesus was Begotten. (Exhibit III-8, page 494)

9. Written sermons. (Exhibit III-9, pages 634-5, 716)

10. Resurrection of stillborn children. (Exhibit III-10, page 694)

C. Miscellaneous Interpretations. (Exhibit IV)

Frequency of Administrations, page 22

Baptism in the "molten sea," page 98

II Peter 1;19, page 102

Paul married, page 112

Status of those "with Christ in His Resurrection," page 128

Consecration of oil, page 147

Councils and schools among the Gods, page 151

Limitations on Deity, page 154

Sunday not a proper day for family reunions, page 254

Geological changes at the time of the deluge, page 268

The Holy Ghost a spirit man, page 329

Facing east in temples when giving the Hosanna Shout, page 337

Details on family prayer and asking the blessing on food, page 526

Interpretation of Doctrine and Covenants 93:1, page 581

Interpretation of "Every spirit of man was innocent in the beginning," page

606

Status of little children in the celestial kingdom, page 607

Resumption of schools of the prophets, page 613

Time of beginning of seasons, page 616

Interpretation of III Nephi 21:20, page 618

D. Repeated use of the word "apostate" and related terms in a way which to

many seems discourteous and to others gives offense. (Exhibit V, pages 123,

125, 160, 169, 212, 223, 383, 528, 538, 548, 596)

- --------------------

Jan 8, 1960. The First Presidency held a meeting. We decided that Bruce R.

McConkie's book, "Mormon Doctrine" recently published by Bookcraft Company

must not be re-published, as it is full of errors and misstatements, and it

is most unfortunate that it has received such wide circulation. It is

reported to us that Brother McConkie has made corrections in his book, and

is now preparing another edition. We decided this morning that we do not

want him to publish another edition. We decided, also, to have no more

books published by General Authorities without their first having the

consent of the First Presidency.

- --------------------

Jan. 14, 1960: Was engaged in the meeting of the First Presidency. Among

matters discussed at this meeting were the following: Elder Mark E.

Petersen's proposed editorial on books by General Authorities. A draft of a

proposed editorial for the Improvement Era, prepared by Elder Mark E.

Petersen, on the subject of selecting good books, and upon the approval of

the publication of books by the First Presidency, was read. After

consideration it was decided that the general statement, without the

reference to "Mormon Doctrine" and "Ancient America and the Book of Mormon,"

which should be handled separately, would be a suitable editorial on the

subject of selecting good books. Further action on the matter of publishing

a statement relating to the approval of books by the First Presidency was

deferred awaiting consideration of the subject by me with President Joseph

Fielding Smith.

- --------------------

Jan. 27, 1960: Conference with Pres. Joseph Fielding Smith re: Bruce R.

McConkie's book, "Mormon Doctrine." At the request of the First Presidency,

I called President Joseph Fielding Smith, and told him that we are a unit in

disapproving of Brother Bruce R. McConkie's book, "Mormon Doctrine," as an

authoritative exposition of the principles of the gospel. I then said,

"Now, Brother Smith, he is a General Authority, and we do not want to give

him a public rebuke that would be embarrassing to him and lessen his

influence with the members of the Church, so we shall speak to the Twelve at

our meetingt in the Temple tomorrow, and tell them that Brother McConkie's

book is not approved as an authoritative book, and that it should not be

republished, even if the errors (some 1,067 of them) are corrected."

Brother Smith agreed with this suggestion to report to the Twelve, and said,

"That is the best thing to do." I then said that Brother McConkie is

advocating by letter some of the principles as printed in his book in answer

to letters he receives. Brother Smith said, "I will speak to him about

that." I then mentioned that he is also speaking on these subjects, and

Brother Smith said, "I will speak to him about that also." I also said that

the First Presidency had decided that General Authorities of the Church

should not publish books without submitting them to some member of the

General Authorities, and President Smith agreed to this as being wise.

- --------------------

Jan. 28, 1960: 8:30 to 9 a.m. Bruce R. McConkie's book. Was engaged in the

meeting of the First Presidency. I reported to my counselors that I had

talked with President Joseph Fielding Smith about the decision that the book

"Mormon Doctrine" should not be republished and about handling the matter to

avoid undermining Elder McConkie's influence. President Smith agreed that

the book should not be republished, and said that he would talk with Brother

McConkie. It was decided that the First Presidency should inform Brother

McConkie before he learns of our decision from some other source, so Brother

McConkie was asked to come into our meeting this morning. When he arrived I

informed him of the desire of the First Presidency with reference to his

book not being republished, to which he agreed. The recommendation was also

made that he answer inquiries on the subject with care. Brother McConkie

said, "I am amenable to whatever you Brethren want. I will do exactly what

you want. I will be as discreet and as wise as I can." In answering

letters he said that he would express no views contrary to views which the

First Presidency has expressed. He said that he would conform in every

respect.

10 a.m. to 2:45 p.m. Was engaged in the meeting of the First Presidency and

Council of the Twelve in the Salt Lake Temple. At Council meeting I

reported to the Brethren our decision regarding Elder Bruce R. McConkie's

book "Mormon Doctrine," stating that it had caused considerable comment

throughout the Church, and that it has been a source of concern to the

Brethren ever since it was published. I said that this book had not been

presented to anyone for consideration or approval until after its

publication. I further said that the First Presidency have given it very

careful consideration, as undoubtedly have some of the Brethren of the

Twelve also, and that the First Presidency now recommend that the book not

be republished; that it be not republished even in corrected form, even

though Brother McConkie mentions in the book that he takes all

responsibility for it; and that it be not recognized as an authoritative

book. I said further that the question has arisen as to whether a public

correction should be made and an addendum given emphasizing the parts which

are unwisely presented or misquoted or incorrect; but it is felt that that

would not be wise because Brother McConkie is one of the General

Authorities, and it might lessen his influence. The First Presicdency

recommend that the situation be left as it is, and whenever a question about

it arises, we can answer that it is unauthoritative, that it was issued by

Brother McConkie on his own responsibility, and he must answer for it.

McConkie on his own responsibility, and he must answer for it. I reported

that the First Presidency had talked with Brother McConkie this morning, and

he said he will do whatever the Brethren want him to do. He will not

attempt to republish the book, nor to say anything by letter, and if he

answers letters or inquiries that he will answer them in accordance with the

suggestions made by the Brethren, and not advocate those things concerning

which question has been raised as contained in the book. The Brethren

unanimously approved of this. I then said that the First Presidency further

recommend that when any member of the General Authorities desires to write a

book, that the Brethren of the Twelve or the First Presidency be consulted

regarding it. While the author need not get the approval of these Brethren,

they should know before it is published that a member of the General

Authorities wants to publish a book. I said it may seem all right for the

writer of the book to say, "_I_ _only_ am responsible for it," but I said

"you cannot separate your position from your individuality, and we should

like the authors to present their books to the Twelve or a Committee

appointed." I asked the Brethren of the Twelve to convey this information

to the other General Authorities. On motion this became the consensus of

the Council.

[MorningStar]

Good information, HiJolly! This would make an interesting discussion on its own. :)

[HiJolly]

All General Authorities have authority to declare doctrine. That's why they are called General Authorities. Hundreds of doctrinal errors?? You sound like an apostate. I sure won't hang my "doctrinal hat" on your pointed head.

General Authorities have the authority to declare doctrine- not to create it.

That process lies with the First Presidency, the Quorum of the Twelve and the Seventies- and then with the Church through common consent.

Pack your bags, Cobra- you're done here. The unsubstantiated personal attack you made above was your final strike.

Honos

Ah, my bad. Yes, Elder McConkie and the other General Authorities have the right to declare doctrine. I should have said, as Honos did, he cannot "create" doctrine.

Thanks, H.

HiJolly

[Facsimile 3]

All General Authorities have authority to declare doctrine. That's why they are called General Authorities. Hundreds of doctrinal errors?? You sound like an apostate. I sure won't hang my "doctrinal hat" on your pointed head.

General Authorities have the authority to declare doctrine- not to create it.

That process lies with the First Presidency, the Quorum of the Twelve and the Seventies- and then with the Church through common consent.

Pack your bags, Cobra- you're done here. The unsubstantiated personal attack on HiJolly was your final strike.

As to your "response" to me directly- I was referring specifically to the anti-Semetic tripe you linked to as your "site". There is no room whatever on this board for that kind of blatant racism- and none for your misbehavior.

Honos

Wow HiJolly, us unfettered Mormons seem to provoke non amiable discussion. People should know egos are only allowed at Mormon Apologetics Discussion Board.

[fish4kitty]

Hijolly,

My question is this. Why when brought before the current President of the church did they not discipline Elder McConkie for publishing this book ? I know that I personally have had people bring this book into question and use it against the Church. At least the parts that they want to use against it. Did they discipline him ? I know they wanted to save face but to what extent ? What would make one of the general authorities publish a book before bringing it before the President for approval ? Talk about a bad move there. Maybe you don't know but if someone does please let me know I'm curious to know more on the subject.

f4k

[HiJolly]

Hijolly,

My question is this. Why when brought before the current President of the church did they not discipline Elder McConkie for publishing this book ? I know that I personally have had people bring this book into question and use it against the Church. At least the parts that they want to use against it. Did they discipline him ? I know they wanted to save face but to what extent ? What would make one of the general authorities publish a book before bringing it before the President for approval ? Talk about a bad move there. Maybe you don't know but if someone does please let me know I'm curious to know more on the subject.

f4k

Dang. The fact is I don't know for sure, but I do have an opinion.

Joseph Smith Jr. was a wonderful man. He had many strengths, including a genuine willingness to allow other people to believe whatever they wanted, regardless of how heretical it was. He also supported the idea that no one should be excommunicated for 'apostate' beliefs, though he drew the line when people took action to hurt the Church or the Saints. He once said (paraphrase) "No man was ever damned for believing too much."

But he also had weaknesses, born of the difficult life all people experienced back then. One of these was an intense and profound loyalty to his friends. Weakness? Loyalty was actually required to survive all the oppression, mob actions, etc. But Joseph took it to a fault, and was absolutely devastated when his loyalty to a friend was betrayed. cf. John C. Bennett.

This mini-lecture actually does have a point...

David O. McKay had this same 'weakness' of intense and profound loyalty to his friends. He would NEVER, EVER discipline one in whom he had placed his trust. One in whom the trust of the Church was invested. For more of an understanding, read the wonderful book David O. McKay and the Rise of Modern Mormonism. Also, to understand Joseph's sense of loyalty, read Joseph Smith, Rough Stone Rolling.

Hope that helps. Feel free to ask, I just love to pontificate

HiJolly

[HiJolly]

Hijolly,

What would make one of the general authorities publish a book before bringing it before the President for approval ? Talk about a bad move there.

f4k

It hadn't been policy before then, and I think Elder McConkie was so sure of himself, he didn't feel the need. I would say that was a significant error in judgement, but it's all hindsight and so rather unfair to him.

bottom line: we all mess up. Trust in God, not in man.

HiJolly

[fish4kitty]

Thanks Hijolly,

I'll look into the books you suggested. Yes we all make mistakes maybe not to this degree.

f4k

[LdsNana]

I am in agreement with you here, I believe that Satan will be "bound" during those 1000 years, but the binding will be because of the righteousness of the saints, he will be unable to do any of his evil. The "chains" that bind him will be our righteous hearts.

Hi there:-)

Just want to add a bit of clarification on this comment. I hope you don't mind, as this is a common misunderstanding and taught this way by most in the church.

I remember hearing it this way in a church class myself and thinking it sounded reasonable then, so I bought it as well.

Just think how it would be IF we could be ready to be that righteous all at the same time and have that power over Satan and his evil influences. But that is not how things are going to go down. No way, it is going to take the coolest angel around, even the Ancient of Days himself, Adam. He dealt with him before in the war in heaven and he will have the honors of taking the key and locking that bad dude up for 1000 years!

Won't that feel GOOD for father Adam?

Do I hear a SHOUT OUT? HALLELUJAH!

Revelations 20:1-3

<div align="center">1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.

2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

</div>

Now, aren't you all glad that none of us need to worry about the righteousness of one another and him potentially breaking out of jail?

That could really cause BIG PROBLEMS......

See ya,

gvr