The Lds Church And The Unitarian Churches

[Danage]

This may be a bit confusing, so please forgive me.

I have Jewish beliefs (e.g. the Messiah, oneness of G-d etc.), but recently I delved back into the religious beliefs of my childhood (which I outright rejected at the age of 17, two years ago). My leaving Trinitarian Christendom (Methodism, Protestantism) was not immediate, rather I was (unknowingly) a Unitarian/Arian for three months before rejecting Christendom completely.

I have visited and posted on the Arian Catholic message board, not that I'm trying to advertise, but they are Arians, Unitarians in a way.

My religious beliefs are somewhat being influenced by my mental health problems, where I have a Unitarian son who comes from a Universe where all life in that Universe originated from one point, the First Earth, orbiting the star Kolob. Basically the Universe he inhabits is one where there are people on other planets, all ultimately tracing their origins to the first of seven Earths. Each Earth corresponds to a Church of Revelation (Ephesus through to Laodicea).

This fact was only disclosed by direct descendents of the first Earth, after the destruction of the Earth of Sardis, which immediately led to an exodus to set up the sixth Earth. With me so far? I do apologise for the confusing background. My beliefs are all over the place, constantly warring with one another. It is possible my 'son' is a gift from G-d to lead me in the right direction.

The LDS and Unitarian influences on my son may be an indication as to where to go. I am aware that the LDS Church is not Unitarian, or Binitarian, but if you could please explain more on the idea of the many terrestial planets and the way these planets fit together then I would be much appreciative.

Thank you

[SeattleTruthSeeker]

This may be a bit confusing, so please forgive me.

I have Jewish beliefs (e.g. the Messiah, oneness of G-d etc.), but recently I delved back into the religious beliefs of my childhood (which I outright rejected at the age of 17, two years ago). My leaving Trinitarian Christendom (Methodism, Protestantism) was not immediate, rather I was (unknowingly) a Unitarian/Arian for three months before rejecting Christendom completely.

I have visited and posted on the Arian Catholic message board (http://forum.arian-catholic.org/index.php?referrerid=27), not that I'm trying to advertise, but they are Arians, Unitarians in a way.

My religious beliefs are somewhat being influenced by my mental health problems, where I have a Unitarian son who comes from a Universe where all life in that Universe originated from one point, the First Earth, orbiting the star Kolob. Basically the Universe he inhabits is one where there are people on other planets, all ultimately tracing their origins to the first of seven Earths. Each Earth corresponds to Church of Revelation (Ephesus through to Laodicea).

This fact was only disclosed by direct descendents of the first Earth, after the destruction of the Earth of Sardis, which immediately led to an exodus to set up the sixth Earth. With me so far? I do apologise for the confusing background. My beliefs are all over the place, constantly warring with one another. It is possible my 'son' is a gift from G-d to lead me in the right direction.

The LDS and Unitarian influences on my son may be an indication as to where to go. I am aware that the LDS Church is not Unitarian, or Binitarian, but if you could please explain more on the idea of the many terrestial planets and the way these planets fit together then I would be much appreciative.

Thank you

Here are a couple of questions I have after reading your post.

1) What do you mean by this? Essentially, what is it you are saying and what is the meaning and intent behind this particular post and reasoning of what you have embraced as "doctrine" and "truth". This is so that not only I, but others have a clearer understanding of where you are coming from and why.

2) How did you come to this conclusion? Essentially, what brought you over to this particular doctrine, understanding, teaching and what you consider to be doctrine? Curious to know how such a conclusion is arrived to, the process involved, study references etc.

Thank you kindly,

[Danage]

Here are a couple of questions I have after reading your post.

1) What do you mean by this? Essentially, what is it you are saying and what is the meaning and intent behind this particular post and reasoning of what you have embraced as "doctrine" and "truth". This is so that not only I, but others have a clearer understanding of where you are coming from and why.

Mental health problems could be caused by divine intervention to guide people to liight and truth, to the true religion, be it Christianity (Christendom can be interpreted as false Christianity) or another religion. Is it possible that the beliefs expressed by my 'son' are Mormon, Unitarian, a mixture, or is it perhaps divine intevention suggesting one of two paths to take?

2) How did you come to this conclusion? Essentially, what brought you over to this particular doctrine, understanding, teaching and what you consider to be doctrine? Curious to know how such a conclusion is arrived to, the process involved, study references etc.

Thank you kindly,

If there ever existed beings from other planets they must have come about through divine intervention. Weatgher this is through pre-mortal spirits or through new souls is questionable if they ever do exist. In the Universe my son inhabits the Mormon belief in a centre of Terrestrial power is mixed with the Unitarian belief in one G-d. If it is true that what I see is through divine intervention then this means that G-d is guiding me, as one Messianic Rabbi believes it to be.

What I consider truth is a mixture. Essentially I do not know the Truth, but strive for it above all else. Divine intervention and guidance is of course useful, but if the hallucinations and delusions are somehow G-d's guidance it is sending out mixed signals.

I hope that this makes my situation more clear to all.

Thank you

[mnn727]

I hope that this makes my situation more clear to all.

Not to me at least, sorry but I'll try to respond.

Not sure what you mean by "In the Universe my son inhabits" but I don't believe you can take part of this religion and part of that religion to fit what you want to believe. The God I believe in does not work like that.

We believe that all people are eternal and have always existed, first as intelligences and then as spirit beings, then we became mortal and in the end we will go to our reward. Mormons, unlike most religions believe almost everyone who ever lived will inherit heaven (In my Fathers house are many manisions)

[Garden Girl]

Hello Danage...

I read through your posts... and I agree with mnn727 that I don't think you can pick and choose from different faiths to make a clear belief... with all good will I say, I don't think God would send hallucinations and delusions to you that send out "mixed signals."

God's house is a house of order... the basics of the gospel are straightforward... If you are interested in the message of Mormonism, I'd suggest you simply start from the beginning and put aside any preconceived notions and simply understand it for what it is... and it is not a "mixture." A couple of websites: lds.org and FAIRlds.org have topical guides where you can read our beliefs on various topics.

Good luck...

The Garden Girl

[Danage]

I am aware it is not a mixture, and respect that. I also am aware that you cannot pick and choose different parts of different faiths and denominations. I have researched into Mormonism, and I do believe that Mormonism is right on these aspects:

The Great Apostasy (although I believe it started in 313 C.E. - The Council of Nicaea - not at the end of the Apostolic Age)

That G-d would have to send prophets when apostasy and heresy occurred, and that these prophets could be the prophets of Mormonism

While I am aware that Mormonism is not Unitarian, I would, however, in my greater search for Truth and/or knowledge, be interested in knowing more about the concept of double think from the first Mormon prophet (Joseph Smith Jr.), Mormon eschatology (if I remember correctly it is futurist), the idea that the USA is New JerUSAlem (which I do believe could be true considering the letters USA in the name of the city), the idea of pre-existent spirits that we all were, and whether there was a greater G-d that created these spirits (or was it that as the saying goes 'As man is G-d was, as G-d is man may become', so therefore there was no almighty G-d (is this similar to the concept of Devas in Buddhism?)).

Another thing I think makes sense is the belief that there are three Heavens, for if G-d is merciful he would not wish for his children to be eternally punished in Hell.

Thank you in advance.

[mnn727]

I am confused, first you say

I also am aware that you cannot pick and choose different parts of different faiths and denominations.

then you say:

And I do believe that Mormonism is right on these aspects:(and names some LDS Doctrinal points)

So, if you are aware you can not pick and choose what you like, then why do you pick a couple things out of Mormonisn you believe, but not all of it?

Sorry, you have me confused

[the_jason]

I have just one question. Huh?

[rickg]

I'm not sure...............but.................I think I feel a tug on my leg here..............

[Danage]

The belief in a Great Apostasy is not just common to the LDS Church. Restorationists also believe in a Great Apostasy. Protestant Historicists believe in a Great Apostasy (in 313 at the Council of Nicaea rather than the end of the Apostolic Age). Finding the denomination that matches, as close as possible, the beliefs would be my objective. The idea of prophets (I should have said teachers, guardians, people guided by G-d), teachers and guardians to Christianity is not just common among Mormonism. Protestants believe that Luther was guided by G-d to rebel and protest (hence the word Protestant) against the Roman Catholic Church (Christendom).

Christendom is Christianity mixed with Roman Imperial Paganism, and hence it is false Christianity. Christianity is the true form of the religion.

I am still interested in learning about Mormonism, to see if my belief could not be swayed, or at least gain in knowledge of the Latter Day Saints, and while my hallucinations may not have be sent by G-d as a punishment or guide it could be possible divine influence, or maybe the links between the churches and what I see and hear is a mere coincidence (which is what my psychiatrist would have me believe).

Thank you.

[ztodd]

We know very little about life on other planets - basically nothing. There are many other teachings of the church that you should learn - don't worry about life on other planets until you learn all you can about Christ's life and atonement for us on this world - also study about faith, prayer, baptism, priesthood, prophets, and the Godhead. Read the Book of Mormon. After doing those things and sincerely seeking an answer to your prayers about which direction you should go, listen and Heavenly Father will tell you.

[Danage]

We know very little about life on other planets - basically nothing. There are many other teachings of the church that you should learn - don't worry about life on other planets until you learn all you can about Christ's life and atonement for us on this world - also study about faith, prayer, baptism, priesthood, prophets, and the Godhead. Read the Book of Mormon. After doing those things and sincerely seeking an answer to your prayers about which direction you should go, listen and Heavenly Father will tell you.

Thank you. I'll do that, but acquiring a Book of Mormon to read is proving difficult. I have read about Mormon beliefs on many things, e.g. the thirteenth tribe, Mormon, Moroni the angel, the three and eight witnesses, prophet presidents, the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles, New JerUSAlem, the three heavens (which makes G-d appear more forgiving in my opinion) and the list goes on...

Reading the Book of Mormon, as I said will be difficult as I cannot find it on the internet, buy it or procure a copy of it to read and study.

[Daniel]

Thank you. I'll do that, but acquiring a Book of Mormon to read is proving difficult. I have read about Mormon beliefs on many things, e.g. the thirteenth tribe, Mormon, Moroni the angel, the three and eight witnesses, prophet presidents, the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles, New JerUSAlem, the three heavens (which makes G-d appear more forgiving in my opinion) and the list goes on...

Reading the Book of Mormon, as I said will be difficult as I cannot find it on the internet, buy it or procure a copy of it to read and study.

You can read the Book of Mormon or have it read to you by following this link.

http://scriptures.lds.org/en/bm/contents

[mnn727]

To read online: http://scriptures.lds.org/en/bm/contents

To buy online: http://deseretbook.com/store/product?sku=0174078

[drjme]

Hi danage,

it would be good to know what you interpret as 'mental health problems' and 'divine influence' and how they affect what you determine as truth.

I don't mean to be rude, I would just like to know what sort of experiences and situations accompany these feelings.

Also in relation to unity of churches/beliefs, It appeals to men of the world to unify churches and beliefs in the name of 'peace' and 'unity' in God. God requires us to hold to the truth, keeping the gospel pure, no matter what the cost. so I encourage you to search for that truth, in Gods name, that he may guide you to it.

[ztodd]

Hi Danage how is your search for truth going? If you haven't got one already, you can request a free book of mormon at http://www.mormon.org/mormonorg/eng/basic-...avenly-father#d

[hagoth7]

That G-d would have to send prophets when apostasy and heresy occurred, and that these prophets could be the prophets of Mormonism

Yes.

While I am aware that Mormonism is not Unitarian, I would, however, in my greater search for Truth and/or knowledge, be interested in knowing more about the concept of double think from the first Mormon prophet (Joseph Smith Jr.),

Not fully sure what you mean here, but he did say something about encouraging the general validity of first impressions. If that's what you're getting at, I could provide a quote for further discussion.

Mormon eschatology (if I remember correctly it is futurist),

That would be a general overstatement.

the idea that the USA is New JerUSAlem,

More accurately that the New Jerusalem would be built in the Americas.

[Danage]

Yes.

Not fully sure what you mean here, but he did say something about encouraging the general validity of first impressions. If that's what you're getting at, I could provide a quote for further discussion.

Please do.

That would be a general overstatement.

Please elaborate.

More accurately that the New Jerusalem would be built in the Americas.

I see, and actually this makes more sense as the USA is in JerUSAlem so the New Jerusalemmust be in the USA as is predicted in the Book of Revelation (in the wilderness [desert]).

[Danage]

Hi danage,

it would be good to know what you interpret as 'mental health problems' and 'divine influence' and how they affect what you determine as truth.

I don't mean to be rude, I would just like to know what sort of experiences and situations accompany these feelings.

Also in relation to unity of churches/beliefs, It appeals to men of the world to unify churches and beliefs in the name of 'peace' and 'unity' in God. God requires us to hold to the truth, keeping the gospel pure, no matter what the cost. so I encourage you to search for that truth, in Gods name, that he may guide you to it.

I have contected missionaries and am currently thinking and swinging between LDS and Unitarianism. As far as I'm concerned I am not mentally ill, and this is all just divine influence, but my mother thinks I am not if fit mind and my psychitrists (note the plural) believe I am mentally ill, suffering from psychosis.

The Truth, according to my son, the one who hijacks my thoughts and I used to see and hear (now no longer due to stupid medication), is contained in LDS and Unitarian writings, so I don't know. A lot of LDS teachings make sense, but so do Unitarian beliefs.

[Dr. Mom]

I have contected missionaries and am currently thinking and swinging between LDS and Unitarianism. As far as I'm concerned I am not mentally ill, and this is all just divine influence, but my mother thinks I am not if fit mind and my psychitrists (note the plural) believe I am mentally ill, suffering from psychosis.

The Truth, according to my son, the one who hijacks my thoughts and I used to see and hear (now no longer due to stupid medication), is contained in LDS and Unitarian writings, so I don't know. A lot of LDS teachings make sense, but so do Unitarian beliefs.

Danage-

Whoa....with all due respect, you are swinging all over the place here. I'm not sure which part to tackle first... The fact you said you believe your son when he says someone can hijack your thoughts is proof something in the medication you're taking is not right. Note there are many forms of mental illness and I am not here to diagnose you or anyone else. But I do believe you need help. The question remains: Are you willing to take the help that's given? When was the last time you were monitored and had your meds checked out? I'm not trying to be mean or hurtful because I really care and I want to see you happy. I think once your meds are straightened out and underway you can lead a productive life and the confusion you are experiencing will ease off.

[Danage]

Danage-

Whoa....with all due respect, you are swinging all over the place here.

That is true.

I'm not sure which part to tackle first... The fact you said you believe your son when he says someone can hijack your thoughts is proof something in the medication you're taking is not right.

The psychiatrist is slowly upping the meds should something not be right

Note there are many forms of mental illness and I am not here to diagnose you or anyone else. But I do believe you need help.

I am getting help, but believe it is not mental illness, but divine intervention, or satanic deception.

The question remains: Are you willing to take the help that's given? When was the last time you were monitored and had your meds checked out?

I want control of my thoughts, so I take the meds, and they are going to review it as time goes on and they gain up-to-date information on my 'mental health'.

I'm not trying to be mean or hurtful because I really care and I want to see you happy.

I understand you care, and thank you for it. May you also lead a happy life.

I think once your meds are straightened out and underway you can lead a productive life and the confusion you are experiencing will ease off.

I hope so also. Thank you. May you also lead a happy and productive life.

[ztodd]

This is more interesting to me now than it was before for some reason. I actually can also believe that "mental illness" can sometimes be a way in which God can send messages to a person - but it can be very difficult to discern when such is the case or not. I think that more often people with mental illness will just have illusions of things that are not real and should not be taken as messages from God. So you have to be really careful and prayerful in what you allow yourself to believe about your supposed divine influences. I'm not saying for sure that they're not, but just that you have to be really careful and prayerful about it. Having said that, there could possibly be some truth in the "messages" you allegedly received about different earths descending from a first earth... BUT- we know basically nothing about all that because the Lord has not revealed anything about that to us yet.

As far as knowing if you should join to the LDS church, again I say that you should stick to the basic teachings and priniciples, read the Book of Mormon, study and pray on it, and look for God to answer your prayers.

[Danage]

This is more interesting to me now than it was before for some reason. I actually can also believe that "mental illness" can sometimes be a way in which God can send messages to a person - but it can be very difficult to discern when such is the case or not. I think that more often people with mental illness will just have illusions of things that are not real and should not be taken as messages from God. So you have to be really careful and prayerful in what you allow yourself to believe about your supposed divine influences. I'm not saying for sure that they're not, but just that you have to be really careful and prayerful about it. Having said that, there could possibly be some truth in the "messages" you allegedly received about different earths descending from a first earth... BUT- we know basically nothing about all that because the Lord has not revealed anything about that to us yet.

As far as knowing if you should join to the LDS church, again I say that you should stick to the basic teachings and priniciples, read the Book of Mormon, study and pray on it, and look for God to answer your prayers.

I thank you for your understanding. Yes, it is confusing which is divine intervention, mental illness, or satanic deception. Before all this happened my beliefs were Shepardic Orthodox Jewish (I was not a Jew, I just had the beliefs), so it was not a result of anything happening in my life in terms of beliefs and religion.

The seven Earths seem to correspond to the seven churches of Revelation, something I neglected to comment on in my book on the Jewish Book of Revelation, or the shaky evidence of its Jewishness compared to the belief it was Christian. The seven partitions of the Bible and the Mormon writings (Torah/Pentateuch, Nevi'im, Ketuvim, New Testament/Brit Chadassah, Book of Mormon, Doctrines and Covenents and Pearl of Great Price) also shows that seven means perfection (although other Christians split the New Testament thus: Gospels, Paul's Letters, Epistles and Prophecy (Revelation alone)) and it is thus undeniable that six is imperfection and seven is perfection.

I believe the seven churches of Revelation refer to seven church eras (Ephesus being the Apostolic Church right down to Laodicea being the materialistic Church of the last days). The belief that the church would be restored make sense (Sardis, some worthy, most soiled; Philadelphia, perfect and restored). It is also written that the Church of G-d would bear his name, and since the Church of G-d was one of the early names of the LDS Church during the ministry of Joseph Smith then the argument for the LDS Church becomes stronger.

The true Church of G-d would be a 'little flock' (Luke 12:32) and the LDS Church is small. The true church would also not have the gates of Hades prevail against it (Matthew 16:18).

[Danage]

I was just wondering why Latter-day Saints keep to Christmas and Easter when the Early Church of Christ did not. I know that Christmas and Easter were celebrated before the greatest Apostasy at the Council of Nicaea and beyond, but they were never, to my knowledge, kept to by the Apostles and disciples. Thank you for your replies and my apologies if I am wrong or have insulted anyone.

[HiJolly]

I was just wondering why Latter-day Saints keep to Christmas and Easter when the Early Church of Christ did not. I know that Christmas and Easter were celebrated before the greatest Apostasy at the Council of Nicaea and beyond, but they were never, to my knowledge, kept to by the Apostles and disciples. Thank you for your replies and my apologies if I am wrong or have insulted anyone.

I don't recall hearing a General Authority address this, so here's my gut-response.

We are unavoidably products of our culture. The Restoration changed those things in the religious culture of the day (circa 1830) that were interfering with the Body of Christ, personal revelation and salvation. All else *might* get changed, but didn't have to. I doubt it would have served the Church or its members well to alienate society still further than what had already occured. My opinion, of course.

HiJolly