Your Take

[Still_Small_Voice]

I like this definition. I don't know who wrote it, but I believe it is accurate.

"A secret combination is a secretive organization or set of practices of a group of people for the purpose of the economic and political advancement of its members at the expense of righteous people, believers in Christ, and society at large, thus undermining their freedom. Towards these ends, members of a secret combination may sustain acts of murder, robbery, and acts of war and each member of the society is bound by an oath to maintain secrecy, as well as to do whatever is necessary to prevent the member's discovery."

[drjme]

Now JBS, you're not tying to spread the rumor that President Benson taught that our government is a secret combination, are you? I'll have to look up that general conference talk.

Found it - from Nov 1988 Ensign:

"I testify that wickedness is rapidly expanding in every segment of our society. (See D&C 1:14–16; D&C 84:49–53.) It is more highly organized, more cleverly disguised, and more powerfully promoted than ever before. Secret combinations lusting for power, gain, and glory are flourishing. A secret combination that seeks to overthrow the freedom of all lands, nations, and countries is increasing its evil influence and control over America and the entire world. (See Ether 8:18–25.)"

You know who that secret combination he speaks of might be - the United Nations.

I think it's important to take note of what is being said 'A secret combination that seeks to overthrow the freedom of all lands, nations, and countries,

so obviously this is worldwide. It 'is increasing its evil influence and control over America and the entire world.' and that it is 'more highly organized, more cleverly disguised, and more powerfully promoted than ever before.' and notice 'by their fruits' who are carrying out these things.

If we compare the secret combination as the one witnessed in the BOM:

Helaman 6:16 And in the *commencement of the sixty and seventh year the people began to grow exceedingly wicked again.

17 For behold, the Lord had blessed them so long with the riches of the world that they had not been stirred up to anger, to wars, nor to bloodshed; therefore they began to set their hearts upon their riches; yea, they began to seek to get gain that they might be lifted up one above another; therefore they began to commit secret murders, and to rob and to plunder, that they might get gain.

18 And now behold, those murderers and plunderers were a band who had been formed by Kishkumen and Gadianton. And now it had come to pass that there were many, even among the Nephites, of Gadianton’s band. But behold, they were more numerous among the more wicked part of the Lamanites. And they were called Gadianton’s robbers and murderers.

19 And it was they who did murder the chief judge Cezoram, and his son, while in the judgment-seat; and behold, they were not found.

20 And now it came to pass that when the Lamanites found that there were robbers among them they were exceedingly sorrowful; and they did use every means in their power to destroy them off the face of the earth.

21 But behold, Satan did stir up the hearts of the more part of the Nephites, insomuch that they did unite with those bands of robbers, and did enter into their covenants and their oaths, that they would protect and preserve one another in whatsoever difficult circumstances they should be placed, that they should not suffer for their murders, and their plunderings, and their stealings.

22 And it came to pass that they did have their signs, yea, their secret signs, and their secret words; and this that they might distinguish a brother who had entered into the covenant, that whatsoever wickedness his brother should do he should not be injured by his brother, nor by those who did belong to his band, who had taken this covenant.

23 And thus they might murder, and plunder, and steal, and commit whoredoms and all manner of wickedness, contrary to the laws of their country and also the laws of their God.

24 And whosoever of those who belonged to their band should reveal unto the world of their wickedness and their abominations, should be tried, not according to the laws of their country, but according to the laws of their wickedness, which had been given by Gadianton and Kishkumen.

25 Now behold, it is these secret oaths and covenants which Alma commanded his son should not go forth unto the world, lest they should be a means of bringing down the people unto destruction.

26 Now behold, those secret oaths and covenants did not come forth unto Gadianton from the records which were delivered unto Helaman; but behold, they were put into the heart of Gadianton by that same being who did entice our first parents to partake of the forbidden fruit—

27 Yea, that same being who did plot with Cain, that if he would murder his brother Abel it should not be known unto the world. And he did plot with Cain and his followers from that time forth.

28 And also it is that same being who put it into the hearts of the people to build a tower sufficiently high that they might get to heaven. And it was that same being who led on the people who came from that tower into this land; who spread the works of darkness and abominations over all the face of the land, until he dragged the people down to an entire destruction, and to an everlasting hell.

29 Yea, it is that same being who put it into the heart of Gadianton to still carry on the work of darkness, and of secret murder; and he has brought it forth from the beginning of man even down to this time.

30 And behold, it is he who is the author of all sin. And behold, he doth carry on his works of darkness and secret murder, and doth hand down their plots, and their oaths, and their covenants, and their plans of awful wickedness, from generation to generation according as he can get hold upon the hearts of the children of men.

31 And now behold, he had got great hold upon the hearts of the Nephites; yea, insomuch that they had become exceedingly wicked; yea, the more part of them had turned out of the away of righteousness, and did trample under their feet the commandments of God, and did turn unto their own ways, and did build up unto themselves idols of their gold and their silver.

32 And it came to pass that all these iniquities did come unto them in the space of not many years, insomuch that a more part of it had come unto them in the sixty and seventh year of the reign of the judges over the people of Nephi.

so we know that the secret combination dwelt among them and had signs and symbols for recognizing each other, working amongst the people and having the appearance the same as those who were not of the gadianton robbers. until the majority became increasingly evil and did 'trample under their feet the commandments of God'.

[Pegtagatha]

My take maybe deleted;

I believe these Moroni verses predict the end times, and the events of 9/11.

[Pegtagatha]

I think the Illuminati/New World Order are probably a good fulfillment of this passage. The BoM is a good warning for our time. The LDS scriptures show us that organized Satanism has been around since the days of Cain and are still active in our time. Satan's people always work in secret combinations.

I agree, with expearince. Noticed how are Government leaders are mostly Evangecal?

[HiJolly]

I agree, with expearince. Noticed how are Government leaders are mostly Evangecal?

I know many very nice, spiritual Christian evangelicals. To link government, secret combinations, and evangelicals with such an apparent broad brush is not a good idea, IMO. Is there something more specific you had in mind?

In general, I detest these kinds of topics because there is nothing uplifting or helpful in them. I mean, we can look over our shoulders more often, but what else? Practically speaking, I mean. I'd like to know if I'm mistaken here. If I *knew* that someone (say, Mitt Romney) was involved in a secret combination, then I'd vote for someone else - no direct action would be taken by *me* AGAINST him. Does anyone see it any differently?

Seems to me we just need to repent of our own sins, and try to judge righteously so we don't get sucked into doing bad things ourselves.

HiJolly

[MorningStar]

I agree, HiJolly. :)

[Guest Seraphim]

We want all of our board members here to feel welcome, but we ask that controversial subjects be avoided. There will inevitably be differing opinions in our discussions, but some topics will become too emotionally charged. The suggestion that the government conspired to kill thousands of its own people is considered an outrageous claim by many people here and has too much potential to start an argument. It's not the kind of tone we want for this board.

Seraphim

[Pegtagatha]

I know many very nice, spiritual Christian evangelicals. To link government, secret combinations, and evangelicals with such an apparent broad brush is not a good idea, IMO. Is there something more specific you had in mind?

In general, I detest these kinds of topics because there is nothing uplifting or helpful in them. I mean, we can look over our shoulders more often, but what else? Practically speaking, I mean. I'd like to know if I'm mistaken here. If I *knew* that someone (say, Mitt Romney) was involved in a secret combination, then I'd vote for someone else - no direct action would be taken by *me* AGAINST him. Does anyone see it any differently?

Seems to me we just need to repent of our own sins, and try to judge righteously so we don't get sucked into doing bad things ourselves.

HiJolly

Yes, but their Jesus is a deciever, who really is the Devil in disquise. As for our Brother Mitt Romney he in others in our Faith are just blind to the reallity of what is going on around us in this world.

Peg, it is this kind of ill-informed absolutism that has brought you to the attention of the mods time and again. We believe that our non-Mormon brethren lack truth- but we do not condemn them as servants of the devil. We cheerfully acknowledge that faithful Christians can be found in every denomination.

If Christ and his servants in the Church do not condemn them you have no room to do so either.

Final warning- drop the politics and the tin-foil hat stuff before you come here.

Take a couple of days to calm down and regain your equilibrium.

Honos

[HiJolly]

Yes, but their Jesus is a deciever, who really is the Devil in disquise. As for our Brother Mitt Romney he in others in our Faith are just blind to the reallity of what is going on around us in this world.

Jesus taught us to love our enemies. To pray for those who despitefully use us.

Let's say we have a group of people who have been decieved and are thinking they follow Jesus, when in reality they follow Satan. Let's assume we know who these people are.

Now ---- what do we do about it? Do we call the FBI? Make placards and picket their offices/homes/businesses? I don't think so.

The Gospel, it seems to me, is a practical way of living, loving, and lifting ourselves and our neighbors. We believe in Christ, and we serve our fellow man. We succor those in need, feed the hungry, clothe the naked, support the weak. In doing so, we serve Christ. If we are busily engaged in doing good, then that is right.

I still need to know how knowing about any conspiracy theory, even if it's 100% proven and true, can lead us to do good. Specifically, what are the 'good' actions we must take, to fight the secret combinations? We see what happened in the Book of Mormon. Seems to me, that until our 'secret' foes come out in public, as shown in the Book of Mormon, we have to focus on our own behaviors and our own sins, and pray and have faith that God will preserve us.

From what I read in the scriptures, only AFTER a 'secret' combination exposes itself, can we do battle.

I'm not trying to argue. I'm trying to see if there is something I'm missing. Comments?

HiJolly

[MorningStar]

Jesus taught us to love our enemies. To pray for those who despitefully use us.

Let's say we have a group of people who have been decieved and are thinking they follow Jesus, when in reality they follow Satan. Let's assume we know who these people are.

Now ---- what do we do about it? Do we call the FBI? Make placards and picket their offices/homes/businesses? I don't think so.

The Gospel, it seems to me, is a practical way of living, loving, and lifting ourselves and our neighbors. We believe in Christ, and we serve our fellow man. We succor those in need, feed the hungry, clothe the naked, support the weak. In doing so, we serve Christ. If we are busily engaged in doing good, then that is right.

I still need to know how knowing about any conspiracy theory, even if it's 100% proven and true, can lead us to do good. Specifically, what are the 'good' actions we must take, to fight the secret combinations? We see what happened in the Book of Mormon. Seems to me, that until our 'secret' foes come out in public, as shown in the Book of Mormon, we have to focus on our own behaviors and our own sins, and pray and have faith that God will preserve us.

From what I read in the scriptures, only AFTER a 'secret' combination exposes itself, can we do battle.

I'm not trying to argue. I'm trying to see if there is something I'm missing. Comments?

HiJolly

That was dead on. When they come out of their hiding places, then we'll smack them around.

[JohnBirchSociety]

Jesus taught us to love our enemies. To pray for those who despitefully use us.

Let's say we have a group of people who have been decieved and are thinking they follow Jesus, when in reality they follow Satan. Let's assume we know who these people are.

Now ---- what do we do about it? Do we call the FBI? Make placards and picket their offices/homes/businesses? I don't think so.

The Gospel, it seems to me, is a practical way of living, loving, and lifting ourselves and our neighbors. We believe in Christ, and we serve our fellow man. We succor those in need, feed the hungry, clothe the naked, support the weak. In doing so, we serve Christ. If we are busily engaged in doing good, then that is right.

I still need to know how knowing about any conspiracy theory, even if it's 100% proven and true, can lead us to do good. Specifically, what are the 'good' actions we must take, to fight the secret combinations? We see what happened in the Book of Mormon. Seems to me, that until our 'secret' foes come out in public, as shown in the Book of Mormon, we have to focus on our own behaviors and our own sins, and pray and have faith that God will preserve us.

From what I read in the scriptures, only AFTER a 'secret' combination exposes itself, can we do battle.

I'm not trying to argue. I'm trying to see if there is something I'm missing. Comments?

HiJolly

Sir / Mamm (?) the Secret Combination has been in the Public eye at least for decades.

Knowledge sets us free. There is "a" secret combination. It is had among all people. Our leaders have pointed out that it exists at the highest levels in our government (US). This SHOULD lead us to do all we can in both our individual lives, our families, and fellow citizens to live in a way that will preclude its' success, and to INFORM others of its' existence.

As far as our civic freedoms go, we have been commanded in General Conference, to become well versed in our Constitution and the threats to it. This is something good.

We are in a bad way here, in the greatest nation in human history. When every major candidate for our highest public office has a track record of willful violation of our Constitutional principles, and openly speaks of doing things if elected that are clearly un-constitutional, we have a huge problem.

It is my hope that my fellow LDS people will inform themselves about these threats. We are in the very fortunate position to have the Book of Mormon and modern Prophets who have given very specific information to us as to how to save our liberty.

Don't be neutral. Get involved! You can change the world (I've been part of an effort that has, on several occasions).

Please!

[HiJolly]

Don't be neutral. Get involved! You can change the world (I've been part of an effort that has, on several occasions).

Please!

I'm not neutral. I vote. I've read and studied the constitution. I learn about the candidates. I even support people that end up only getting .1% of the vote, sometimes. Is that helping? I doubt it. So, I need more ideas of what to do. Please don't ask me to join the JBS. I investigated that group back in the 70's, and it's filled with lies, distortions, name-calling, and hatred. I'll have nothing to do with it.

HiJolly

[Guest Seraphim]

This conversation is headed south. Thread closed. Keep the discussions congenial please.

Seraphim