I Would Like To Apoligize

[terry0197]

Hello Members

I am speaking on behalf of kona0197.

He would like to apologize for his comments he wrote last night in the thread about Temple garments. All he was doing was trying to find some answers before he decides to finally join the church.

He would ask that he be un-banned from the site. It will not happen again. He just wants to learn more about the religion .

Thanks.

Kona

[Guest Iggy]

Hello Members

I am speaking on behalf of kona0197.

Kona would like to apologize for his comments he wrote last night in the thread about Temple garments. All he was doing was trying to find some answers before he decides to finally join the church.

He would ask that he be un-banned from the site. It will not happen again. He just wants to learn more about the religion .

Thanks.

A friend of Kona's...

It is peculiar that your name is quite similar to kona's - - - terry0197

Are you really kona, just signed in as terry so you can make this post? Rather than post this topic you should have pm'd Quorum Prez and stated your case to him.

[Dale]

Doing an online search for Kona0197 i rant into a number of posts the person made. I found Kona0197 with the name of Terry Owan Fuston under it. If this Terry and that person is different i still found it worth sharing. http://kona0197.deviantart.com/activity/

[terry0197]

It is peculiar that your name is quite similar to kona's - - - terry0197

Are you really kona, just signed in as terry so you can make this post? Rather than post this topic you should have pm'd Quorum Prez and stated your case to him.

Yes I admit that I did sign in under another account to apoligize to everyone. I can't PM nobody. I can't PM anybody using either account. I have much I want to ask about the Church yet I got banned for expressing an opinion. I am not anti-mormon. I'm just trying to understand the faith.

Dale - I see you've found my long lost DA page. I haven't signed in there in a long time.

Guys I'm just asking for another chance. It kinda hurts being banned and all. I'll change the first post...

[Garden Girl]

Thanks Dale... it does appear that "Kona" and "Terry" are the same person... he says he was just trying to find more answers about the religion before "finally deciding to join the church." I find that questionable... and even if it is true, he really needs an attitude adjustment, let alone to seek the Spirit...

Garden Girl

[terry0197]

Here's what happens when I try to Email or PM a Admin:

Sorry, an error occurred. If you are unsure on how to use a feature, or don't know why you got this error message, try looking through the help files for more information.

The error returned was:

You are not allowed to use the messenger feature on this board

[Dale]

Kona I think also i found your picture at the Skinnerz Gallery. I noticed you used the terry0197 as part of an e-mail address. We think we have privacy on the internet, but that's not the case. I would not have used the same number that you did under Kona. It was pretty easy to do a quick check on you. The fact Terry was found in combination with Kona0197 gave you away.

I suggest you make the request to a moderator and see what they say. It might be best if you avoid the topic that got you banned. I am all for second chances. If they don't give you another chance i wish you well. If the moderator give's you another chance don't waste the chance and get banned again.

[terry0197]

I have to ask this question. What do I need an attitude adjustment for? I saw I made a mistake, I apologized after trying very hard to email or PM any Admin yet it seems I'm not welcome here?

What's the problem?

I'm at a point in my life where I need to make some hard choices. The Church will be part of those decisions...

To those who I may have offended my apologies go out to you as well.

I was and am serious about learning about the Church. I have pictures of the Temple hanging in my house. I have pictures of the Prophet Joseph Smith who was a great man. I have several sets of Scriptures. I have almost all the books entitled Teachings Of The Presidents Of The Church. I even have a copy of Jesus The Christ in the house. I have the History Of The Church on DVD. And of course I have my Gospel Principles book.

I can learn much from these books but it helps to talk to actual members.

My main point is that I want to learn more.

If I can't do that here where do I go?

[terry0197]

Oh and thank you Dale.

Yes I usually use Kona0197 around the net yet I do have a Terry0197 email addy. Not hard to find nor do I try to hide it.

If I get un-banned or if this account gets banned thank you all anyway.

[Garden Girl]

Hello Terry...

The reason you can't PM is that you don't have enough posts yet... I think you have to post 20 times before you are allowed to PM people. That gives everyone a chance to see what your posts are like...

About the attitude adjustment: I only meant that you seemed so adamant and harsh in regard to never wearing garments... my point is, you don't know that you will always feel that way... in fact if you continue studying about the Church with a prayerful attitude and open your heart to the Spirit, and then decide you will join the Church... as you progress and learn more about the temple and decide to go, my guess is that you will want to wear your garments because you will have an understanding of their meaning and the sacred feeling they bring us as they represent a reminder of the covenants we make with our Heavenly Father. I am thankful everyday when I put on my fresh garments.

For you to keep insisting that you would never wear garments when you don't understand is IMO an unreasonable attitude. Particularly when using terms such as "cult" and "controlling." Well, I won't continue to beat this dead horse... but you asked why you needed an attitude adjustment.

For me, Terry, I really do hope you will continue to read, study and pray, and by all means ask questions here... but your tone and terminology has a good deal to do with the response.

The Garden Girl

edit to add: In your post #29 on the other thread about "not attending services any longer," the last thing you said was that the Church expected too much of its people and that is one reason you have decided not to join, and will probably go to another Church. Is that still your feeling?

[terry0197]

Well I feel different now about Temple Garments then I did. I could see myself wearing them. And no I'm not saying this just to get unbanned.

One thing at a time right?

You would ask me why then would I write that I woulds never wear them? I don't know why I posted that. I wasn't feeling too good that night.

[terry0197]

edit to add: In your post #29 on the other thread about "not attending services any longer," the last thing you said was that the Church expected too much of its people and that is one reason you have decided not to join, and will probably go to another Church. Is that still your feeling?

The truth about is that I made that up as well. I want to go back it's just that I'm so sick of everyone asking when I'm going to get married and when I'm going to get baptized. I don't think they fully comprehend our situation.

I haven't gone to another Church nor will I. I have a testimony of this one I can't deny...

[Dale]

Terry I i were an LDS person bothered by the idea of wearing of garment's i would still do it. I would wear the garments only out of love for my Lord if nothing else. I am actually Community of Christ which split from the LDS in the 19th century. I believe in the Book of Mormon.

You can be an LDS member and never go to the Temple. Many LDS participate in the Temple, but many don't or can't. I would suggest you could get baptized and decide on whether to go to the temple later. If they think you are ready they will invite you to prepare to go to the Temple.

Don't become negatively focused on the thing's about the LDS religion that bothers you. You can miss all the other thing's that are good about the religion that you can enjoy. Try to focus on what you can like not very much on what bothers you. Some thing's about Mormonism i might never like, but many other things i do like. I once mentally focused so much on what bothered me that i became blind to the good i was missing.

If you can find many reason's to becoming LDS you can live with a few thing's you don't like.

[Justlikeyou]

The truth about is that I made that up as well. I want to go back it's just that I'm so sick of everyone asking when I'm going to get married and when I'm going to get baptized. I don't think they fully comprehend our situation.

I haven't gone to another Church nor will I. I have a testimony of this one I can't deny...

Just want to let you know that I can understand why you are having so many feelings that tug you in different

directions, you feel ambivilent and confused and other times so sure- when making a big decisions that involve

God, Jesus, your faith, your life, soooo much. I think people need to stop judging you. But they might not.

So, the best advice is to think alone. Ask Heavenly Father to show you in the scriptures what path to take.

You have all the resources you need. All you need is to search the answer in prayer and supplication.

No one is going to give you the answer you are looking for, it will come to you through prayer...

[bjw]

Terry,

I'm a fairly new convert to the church and have only been Mormon about 3 years now. I too had an objection at first to the garments. While we don't discuss the temple content outside of the temple I will tell you that after you have been a member for a year and you are able to receive the temple endowment the meaning of the garments is completely explained that day inside the temple and once you hear the full explanation it makes sense why you wear them. Also, they are not intrusive or uncomfortable, I barely notice mine are on most of the time and they come in different fabrics that have varying forms of thickness. You're doing the right thing by learning more about the church. I can tell you it was the best thing I've done in my life. Just stick with it. I'll keep you in my prayers.

[terry0197]

To everyone who has mentioned Temple garments: thank you for your advice. I will drop the subject now as I feel I no longer need to discuss it. I have other problems I need to solve first.

Again thank you everyone for your help and support.

[blackcat]

To everyone who has mentioned Temple garments: thank you for your advice. I will drop the subject now as I feel I no longer need to discuss it. I have other problems I need to solve first.

Again thank you everyone for your help and support.

terry, kona or what name you might choose if you believe the church to be true then it wouldnt be so hard i think to wear the garments its not like everyone else can see you wearing the material. I think the hardest would be, is to follow the word of wisdom (give up smoking, drugs, alcohol, tea and coffee) and the law of chasity(no sex before marriage) the last one would be the biggest that a church or any church would ask its newly joined members to sacrifice or follow wouldn't you agree?!

[Guest AutumnBreez]

<div class='codetop'>CODE</div><div class='codemain' style='height:200px;white-space:pre;overflow:auto'>

Quoted by Kona back in Nov.

"Well I know I would never wear the garment to sleep in.

I wouldn't wear it in the Summer time when I wear shorts all day. I can't wear one garment all day.

I really don't think we need to wear a garment to understand

or keep the promises we made in the Temple.

Sounds like a cult tactic to me.

The Church asks too much of us."

</div>

You may not be married, don't know, but do you honor the commitment made

between God, man and woman when they marry?? The ring that is put on to be worn at all times.

A symbol to their commitment. The ring is not a cult tactic anymore then garments.

Hope this helps in understanding.

The garments would be your promise/symbol to God to keep his commandments

and further covenents made.

He has promises for you. Putting on the garments would give you that reminder,

not just a reminder like you forget type reminder, but a reminder to progress in His plan, we are human and are not perfect (yet), this should not stop us from trying. We don't progress 100% over night, we will have obstacles no doubt. Temptations of many sorts. Behaviors of many sorts. We can work towards perfection in spite of the obstacles and become closer to our Heavenly Father and Christ.

Since I am assuming your a man....

A single man may be used to having his life to himself, but will have to find new life in marriage to woman. To be responsible, unselfish, dedicated....etc. , to think of his partner/wife with compassion as Christ has for us. This goes other way of course too, woman to think of husband. This will take practice and time to become easy and more natural to you. The Church is asking for you to become Christ like. The benefits are for you. Others you come in contact with will learn from you. I don't think it is asking too much, we are there for that purpose, to help others, as we do, we may find help for ourselves throughout the process.

-Remember, when you are Baptized, you will be making promises to God. You will be clean, won't you try your hardest to stay this way?? Won't you work diligently to be better then you were before the baptism?? There is forgiveness if we slip...however- You have to take the steps to repentance. It is your progress. Sacrament is also a reminder.

Show Him that you can be trusted, step by step your life will change because you chose to become closer.

Baptism, then endowments, step by step trust. You can trust him, but can he trust you in His work to help others to return? This progress takes time and effort on your part. I work on mine, you work on yours- if I need you or you need me we use our experiences learned to help the other. We don't only learn from our experiences for our own good but for others. Hope and pray that you can find it in your heart to let go of the worlds hang ups about control. The world socially tends to try to control everyone, not the Church. It seems ok to some schools to allow condoms to be handed out because boys will be boys. It seems ok to have politically correct sayings. We must be careful of who we may offend, gays, atheist, etc. While the world says these things, you come and say it is a Church tactic to control. Who is it they are controlling really?? I have a personal choice to obey God or not obey. I choose to obey. It takes control on my part to follow God's instruction and plan. No one has control over this, nor can they have control. It is up to me. The Church makes it possible for me to follow His plan to its fullest. I wish you the best Kona. Please take this kindly.

With Love- AutumnBreez

[Guest Seraphim]

Kona: Your apology is appreciated. You need to understand that many of our members come here for relief from attacks on their beliefs and we have zero tolerance for being labeled a cult or other offensive terms here. We do want this to be a place of learning, but questions must be asked in the most respectful way possible to maintain the atmosphere we desire. What you may find "controlling" in the church, members consider a blessing from our loving Father in Heaven.

Seraphim

[Dale]

Temple subjects can be a very sensitive subject for LDS. It's not that the content is embarassing. Without getting into the content i happen to like the content. The content has been made public by critic's for several year's. Since LDS do not release a transcript themselve's it would be impossible for them to discuss all that critic's want them to. Plus critic's tend to mock and LDS have chosen not to discuss the sacred specifics outside the temple.

A lot of the temple content is alluded to in LDS publication's already. And i have seen the basic EV objections answered in LDS published resources i know of. But i see no great secret about what goes on in the Temple. LDS are just selective in what they feel they can discuss.

I have a member of my congregation who spread a horrid rumor about what goes on in temples. I heard the same rumor back before i graduated High School in 1989, so knew it was false. She told my friend an ex-LDS couple told her Mormon Women had sex with the priests in the temple. Chuck Sacket an anti-Mormon said this was a false rumor in one of his hate writing's. But since Community of Christ rejected the need for temple ceremonies this rumor stayed alive because of our ignorance. If it's a false rumor about what goes on it's ok to correct it.

I recall a re-created depiction of a certain part of the ceremony in the Godmakers film. I recall eery music. And the pretend LDS person's they hired acted like brainwashed person's. I can't of course say the re-creation wasn't based on the ceremony. I never heard any LDS apologist that saw that part say Ed Decker made it up. But they did object to the way the ceremony and LDS people were depicted in the film.

Ed Decker has been caught making some false statements. One of which was that Mormonism destroyed his family. ###### Baer in the same film said the same thing. From relative's statements they both commited adultury on their wive's. A copy of volume 4 of They Lie In Wait to Decieve is online free to read at the FAIR website. I question Ed Decker at Cornerstone Worship Center in Nampa about the book. And he said it was slander. And he said his Ex-wife had engaged in improper behavior with an LDS missionary. I felt he made up the story to deflect his ex-wife's published statement.

Jim Spencer the author of Have You Witnessed To a Mormon Lately. I got Ed and Jim to autograph my copy of that book for me. That auto-graph is by those two men is one of my cherished posessions.

I met Dr. Charle's Crane President of Boise Bible College because of the book. Before the book was released i had talked to Robert L. Brown about his quickly to be released volume 4. So i sent out a stack of letters various ministries what they though of Ed Deckers Godmakers film and Ed Decker. The one's who wrote back thought he presented thing's sensationally. But i sent a letter to Boise Bible College. Dr. Crane got the book, and called me thinking i was in cahoots with Robert L. Brown and his wife Rosemary Brown. He threatened to sue them for slander. But he invited me to go down and visit with him which i did. I see a few mistakes in the section of the book on him.

A lot of older religious colleges lacked accreditation, so i am a bit understanding of Dr. Crane's situation. I talked to a man at the Nazarene college, and now University. He told me i should be understanding as that used to be common with a lot of those religious institutions.

I will alway's appreciate Robert L. Brown and his wife sending me 18 free copies of volume 4. I gave out as many as i could. I wouldn't say i am a friend to the guy, but him and his wife from the conversations i had with them are good people. He was planning on a volume 5 expose on Jerald and Sandra Tanner. But because of age and health reason's i heard it's a dead project. He told me once by he had filing cabinets full of information on various LDS critic's. That he could publish many books if he had the money. I think they are planning to donate the material to some archive eventually.

[Honos]

Kona: Your apology is appreciated. You need to understand that many of our members come here for relief from attacks on their beliefs and we have zero tolerance for being labeled a cult or other offensive terms here. We do want this to be a place of learning, but questions must be asked in the most respectful way possible to maintain the atmosphere we desire. What you may find "controlling" in the church, members consider a blessing from our loving Father in Heaven.

Seraphim

Kona,

Your access under the previous name will be reactivated (and I will attempt to merge your terry0197 posts in as well).

Fair warning: one more crack about cults or controlling people- one more sneer about other people's beliefs- and you're gone for good.

I can understand wanting to find answers- I went through the same steps as a convert. I also have little patience for sneering at or ridiculing other people's genuinely held religious beliefs.

Be polite, be humble, be teachable, and you're welcome here.

Mock us and you're out the door.

Honos

[Dale]

I have never found a legitimate reason for labeling the LDS Church as a cult. One expert on real cult's clearly denied LDS was a cult. One of Robert L. and Rosemary Brown's book's published his opinion on that issue. Evangelical people feel LDS are heretics so call LDS cult. But i have studied their orthodoxy and early Christian orthodoxy and i doubt their orthodoxy. I see Evangelical to be a newer religion that they imagine is orthodoxy, but i doubt that. So i cannot honestly see the cult name as anything, but interdenominational name calling.

[~Sarah~]

If I can't do that here where do I go?

I don't want to put down this or any other internet forum, but the internet is not a good place to be converted. If you REALLY want to learn about something, you need to talk to a REAL person. Face to face. The Spirit is more likely to be there. And people face to face are less likely to get "offended" about something, people are more patient IRL than they are online. Online you can be a jerk and really have no accountability for it. While I'm sure we all like to think we're above that, we're not. So please don't judge the church by what some people on the internet say.

And on the topic of garments. If/when you are ready to go to the temple, you will be ready to wear the garments. If you're not willing to wear them, you're just not ready for the temple. They're really not bad. I don't wear mine when I work out, and it always feels funny, like something is missing. I live in SC and it's not a problem for me to wear the in the summer. I'm trendy and I have no problem finding shorts to wear because knee length walking shorts are in. You can also find appropriate Tshirts with sleeves that are just as cool and comfortable as skimpier tank tops, and more protective from the sun too (my Dad has had a lot of skin cancer so that's a big thing for me) If you abide by the dress standards our leaders have set for us, you will have no problem wearing the garments. I grew up in the church, my parents always wore garments, so it was such a natural thing me. It's such a new idea for you and that's what makes it seem strange, but give it some time. Don't dismiss it so quickly, and it will become more natural to you, I promise.

[~Sarah~]

So i cannot honestly see the cult name as anything, but interdenominational name calling.

That's a really good way of putting that, can I quote you on it? :D

[jadams_4040]

I have to ask this question. What do I need an attitude adjustment for? I saw I made a mistake, I apologized after trying very hard to email or PM any Admin yet it seems I'm not welcome here?

What's the problem?

I'm at a point in my life where I need to make some hard choices. The Church will be part of those decisions...

To those who I may have offended my apologies go out to you as well.

I was and am serious about learning about the Church. I have pictures of the Temple hanging in my house. I have pictures of the Prophet Joseph Smith who was a great man. I have several sets of Scriptures. I have almost all the books entitled Teachings Of The Presidents Of The Church. I even have a copy of Jesus The Christ in the house. I have the History Of The Church on DVD. And of course I have my Gospel Principles book.

I can learn much from these books but it helps to talk to actual members.

My main point is that I want to learn more.

If I can't do that here where do I go?

It sounds like you did make a mistake and are truely sorry for it? if this is rue then i hope things get worked out for you, but lets not forget if you get a second chance, that God does have the "lighting bolt" punishment method still in working order.