Denying the sacrament...

[Dee23]

Hi all--

My name is Depree and I have been a memeber of the LDS church for almost 8 years. Right now my husband are having our fair share of issues and recently because of them--the Bishop told him that he was unable to take the Sacrament. I understand this. My uncle (non-member) wonders how anyone has the authority to deny anyone take the sacrament. His siting for this is when Jesus had the Last Supper, he didn't deny Peter the Sacrament--even though Jesus knew that he was going to betray him. So any ideas of what I could tell my uncle?

Thanks all,

D in WA

[Alaskagain]

perhaps because Peter had not betrayed him yet?

When I belonged to another congregation, I don't recall there having been any discussion of taking the sacrament unworthily. Maybe there was and I don't remember it. As best I remember, anyone could take the sacrament, as it was an act signifying repentance.

We are taught in the LDS church how important it is to remain worthy. Sacrament is there for us to renew our covenants and to repent of sin. It is not that we have sinned that makes us unworthy of partaking of the sacrament. It is if we are not even trying to conquer sin, if we are intentionally ignoring our covenants, or if we have an ongoing issue that we have not resolved, that makes us unworthy, as then are we not mocking the sacred rite? So if we have done something that needs time for us to prove our sincere desire, for example repeatedly committing the same sin over and over, or have stated that we are not following a commandment because we have no desire to follow it, etc. it would be entirely appropriate for the bishop to withhold the sacrament until the matter was cleared up or a probationary time has passed successfully.

Maybe that will help clarify for your uncle? (or not! I'm kind of foggy/rambly today)

[NateHowe]

The bishop is a judge in Israel. His role is to initiate Church discipline and help those who need to overcome serious transgressions. We are told in the scriptures that he who taketh the sacrament unworthily drinketh damnation to his soul. By advising against taking the sacrament for a period of time during a repentance process, the bishop is helping in the process - not punishing unfairly.

[Cassandra]

We also don't really know at what stage Peter was in his spiritual development--had he made the necessary covenants, such that taking the Sacrament would be a violation of them? We don't interview nonmembers before letting them partake. Also, President Kimball speculated that we jump to conclusions when we think Peter was a bad guy for denying Christ--what if what Christ said was actually a command to deny Him, so that Peter wouldn't be harmed and would be able to go on leading the church? It's impossible to fairly judge Peter on the slim accounts we have.

[CQDX]

I know this one is way off topic, but I'm hoping some LDS friends might help me find out if there is a LDS ward/chapel in Porterville, California. I would like to attend and not be "denying the sacrament" to myself. Can't find a location tool on lds.org website.

Thanks in advance

CQDX

[miztrniceguy]

the is a meetinghouse locator here

Meetinghouse Locator

[BenRaines]

I am confused. I thought it was Judas that betrayed Christ. Peter denied him three times but never betrayed him.

Mormons.org has a great meetinghouse locater. The church is strong in Porterville, CA. I lived in the San Joaquin Valley for many years and there is at least one stake in Porterville if not two.

Ben Raines

[Iggy]

Mormon.org - Worship With Us - Search

1164 N Newcomb
Porterville, CA 93257 Map Directions Porterville 1st Ward 12:30 p.m. 12:30 p.m. Porterville 3rd Ward 3:30 p.m. 12:30 p.m. 837 E Morton Ave
Porterville, CA 93257 Map Directions Porterville 2nd Ward 9:00 a.m. 9:00 a.m. Porterville 6th (Spanish) Branch 12:10 p.m. 10:20 a.m.

[Iggy]

1164 N Newcomb, Porterville CA
Sacrament 1st Meeting
1st Ward 12:30pm 12:30pm
3rd Ward 3:30pm 12:30pm

837 Morton Ave, Porterville CA
2nd Ward 9:00am 9:00am
6th (Spanish) 12:10pm 10:20am
Branch

[Guest tomk]

Hi all--

My name is Depree and I have been a memeber of the LDS church for almost 8 years. Right now my husband are having our fair share of issues and recently because of them--the Bishop told him that he was unable to take the Sacrament. I understand this. My uncle (non-member) wonders how anyone has the authority to deny anyone take the sacrament. His siting for this is when Jesus had the Last Supper, he didn't deny Peter the Sacrament--even though Jesus knew that he was going to betray him. So any ideas of what I could tell my uncle?

Thanks all,

D in WA

I wouldn't necessarily tell your Uncle anything unless he broaches the subject again. If he does, here's what I would tell him.

When the Bishop puts somebody on probation and asks them not to take the Sacrament, there is only LOVE behind this action. The request is an attempt to help the individual realize that they have done something relatively serious, something that could lead to more grievous sins that might require excommunication. It is a wake-up call for that person. It tells that person, "The direction you are heading leads nowhere good and if you continue you will be destroyed by the consequencs of your own actions."

You may feel to revile against this restriction. "What right does the Bishop have to do this to me? He's not perfect, either."

Well, if you are being honest with yourself -- you can readily see that this is a manifestation of pride. We don't just sin out of the blue for no reason. Sin is first conceived in our thoughts. The tiny seed of rebellion grows and when it bears fruit, thoughts become actions.

If we make this about the imperfections of our church leaders, we have completely missed the point. The Lord has asked us to respect the counsel of these imperfect men, and He will bless us for having done so. When the Bishop asks us to not take the sacrament and we submit to that restriction, we are supporting the Bishop in his calling.

The period of restriction is a time that we are to use wisely. It is a time when we can rededicate ourselves to the Lord. It is possible to still receive the blessings of the Sacrament without putting bread or water into our mouths. It is not the bread or water that does anything to us -- it is the willingness that is inside of us. THAT is what the Lord cares about, not that we put bread in our mouths or drink a small cup of water, but that we inwardly are willing to take His name upon us, always remember Him, and keep His commandments. You can partake of the bread and water and still not be inwardly willing to DO any of those things.

Nephi faced a crossroads once. Many people don't realize that Nephi was also feeling to rebel against His Father (or in this case, we sometimes feel to rebel when we are put on probation). What made the difference? Why did Nephi not rebel? The difference is Nephi chose to pray to the Lord to soften his heart. Your uncle can do the same thing. Your husband can do the same thing. You can do the same thing as well. We can do this if we are willing.

16 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, being exceedingly young, nevertheless being large in stature, and also having great desires to know of the mysteries of God, wherefore, I did cry unto [Jesus]; and behold he did visit me, and [Jesus] did soften my heart that I did believe all the words which had been spoken by my father; wherefore, I did not rebel against [Jesus] like unto my brothers.

I hope some of this helps.

Tom

[inthearmsofsleep]

perhaps because Peter had not betrayed him yet?

My thoughts exactly. If you listen to the words of the sacrament prayer its purpose becomes apparent, as does the purpose of not taking the sacrament. If you are not currently keeping his commandments, nor observing your past covenants with God, taking the sacrament would serve as an insult to Him.

[utcowboy]

Reading in 1 Cor. Ch 11:

28 But let a man aexamine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.

29 For he that eateth and drinketh aunworthily, eateth and drinketh bdamnation to himself, not discerning the Lord’s body.

I your husband is unworthy of the sacrament maybe the bishop is just trying to help him, or save him from himself!?

[Old Tex]

Hi all--

My name is Depree and I have been a memeber of the LDS church for almost 8 years. Right now my husband are having our fair share of issues and recently because of them--the Bishop told him that he was unable to take the Sacrament. I understand this. My uncle (non-member) wonders how anyone has the authority to deny anyone take the sacrament. His siting for this is when Jesus had the Last Supper, he didn't deny Peter the Sacrament--even though Jesus knew that he was going to betray him. So any ideas of what I could tell my uncle?

Thanks all,

D in WA

Do you really need to tell your uncle anything? And this really has nothing to do with Peter. It has to do with you and your husband, and from the expierence of some who have been put on probation or been disfellowshipped, the fewer people that know, the better off both you and he will be when things start getting better again.

I am courious if you were present when your husband was told this. From what you said it sounds like you were not. You said that you and your husband were having some "issues". This makes me think that these "issues" were the subject of his conversation with the Bishop and the Bishop is trying to help him start a repentence process to get some problems worked out that you may not know about.

A Bishop is a common judge in Israel and his responsibility is to assist your husband in overcoming whatever his problem is. I have found that members who have had serious problems and have overcome them with the aid of a good Bishop are usually much stronger in the future. Just stick by him, keep things between you and him, and if he follows the advice of your Bishop, things will work out for both of you. The Bishop is in your corner. It's old Lucifer that's the enemy.

[Alaskagain]

I am confused. I thought it was Judas that betrayed Christ. Peter denied him three times but never betrayed him.

Ben Raines

yes, Ben Raines, you are right! although when responding to the post, I was thinking of Peter's denial and not Judas' betrayal.

[Dee23]

Thanks everyone for the replies. I know that I need to keep this between my husband and I. The fact is though , that my husband is unable to live in our home and is living with my parents and my uncle. My uncle is like my husband's best friend and told him about him being denied the sacrament. My uncle then came to me and asked me why. I told him the exact same thing about the Bishop being a judge in Israel and so forth. It's just a sticky situation and my uncle , husband and parents live together.

Thanks again,

Depree

[WillowTheWhisp]

My answer would have been that the scriptures tell us that anyone who takes sacrament unworthily is taking damnation upon themselves so in advising your husband not to take sacrament until he is worthy your Bishop is actually wishing to protect him from spiritual harm. It's an act of kindness in much the same way that a mother would prevent a child from putting his hand in a fire.

[VoluntaryPrison]

In actuality, the bishop telling your husband that he is unworthy of the sacrament is more of a warning than a command. The Bishop shouldn't do anything to physically prevent his partaking. However, as a 'common judge in Israel' (D&C 107:73-74), he is granted the authority to judge whether someone would partake unworthily and is therefore obligated to warn him against doing so for reasons cited by utcowboy (See 1 Cor. 11:27-30; 3 Nephi 18:28-32; Mormon 9:29).

But I wouldn't even go into that much detail with your uncle unless he agrees to look at the issue from an LDS point of view first. The situation looks a lot different from the point of view of one who believes the Church has the priesthood authority than one who rejects that premise. In essence, your uncle may never understand this situation because he doesn't have the necessary beliefs in the Restoration that are the foundation of the Bishop's authority. I know, not very encouraging, but hopefully he'll at least agree to disagree.

[Old Tex]

I would suggest not to let your uncle get you in the middle on this. Tell him that if he wants to know, to talk to your husband about it since it was your husband who told him in the first place. Sounds like your husband is playing dumb. No one is put on probation or disfellowshipped by a Bishop without a good understanding of why.