On paying tithing

[Alaskagain]

I posted this on another thread:

If DH hasn't turned in the [tithing] envelope himself, or hasn't seen me hand it to the bishop, he is a nervous wreck all week. He thinks if we haven't paid our tithing, the car is going to break down, or a tire will go flat, or the stove will catch on fire. Sometimes those things happen because things break. It has nothing to do with tithing. But I've been told that sometimes those things should happen due to mechanical condition, and they don't break, because the tithing is paid. Now, I don't know how you can prove something like that.

So I am awakened (an hour before I need to be) this morning with "Honey, where are your car keys? have to get son to seminary, and I have a flat tire."

Hmm. Why did I write that the other day? Did it tempt fate? Is it like saying "I have never written a bad check" and then the next day, I get an overdraft notice? And does knocking on wood really do anything?

So first thing back in the door, he says "Did you turn in the tithing on Sunday?":lol:

gotta love it.

It is part of my conversion story that I have a sense of humor this early in the morning.

[Maya]

I honestly donot know IF I dare to say anythign in this thread...checking my tires...

So far so good....

[rameumptom]

I always pay my tithing and on time. But that didn't keep me from having 4 flat tires in 3 months once. Sadly, it was Jan-March, so I ended up changing them all in winter conditions. And I had just moved up to Indiana from Alabama and was already regretting the cold weather....

Sometimes I think it is just chance. And sometimes I think God has a cruel sense of humor....

[Aphrodite]

We havent paid our tithing for 18 months. Nothing drastic has gone wrong, and we're better off financially :)

[miztrniceguy]

i used to let my wife handle the tithing, but jan1 i decided i needed to take responsibility for my own. now, when i can print my paystub at work,i take it home, and write the check. i turn it in the first sunday after my direct deposit hits. i know i get paid friday, i have written the check now except for the amount.

[rameumptom]

We havent paid our tithing for 18 months. Nothing drastic has gone wrong, and we're better off financially :)

You are better off financially Temporarily, you mean. Tithing is a terrestrial law and is required to be worthy of the terrestrial kingdom. D&C tells us that it is required to keep us from burning, or as some LDS seminarians will tell you, it is 'fire insurance.'

The day will come when those that do not pay their tithes will have a reckoning with God. At that time, he will ask those who know better, why they robbed Him. There's no difference between us today and the Hebrews of 400 BC, when Malachi chastised the Jews for not paying their tithes and offerings.

To not pay our tithes means a person is not worthy of their baptismal covenants. Brigham Young once said we should be excommunicating people for not paying tithes, but out of kindness we do not. It also prevents a person from entering into the temple, where the ordinances of exaltation are found. If having a few thousand more dollars a year is worth risking one's exaltation, then all the more power to that person. But for me, that is like Esau selling his birthright for a mess of pottage. And it is. The person who chooses creature comforts over obedience is sacrificing Celestial glory for a few treasures that will rust and corrode and will stain our hearts so we are only worthy of a lesser kingdom. Christ taught us to have our treasures in heaven, not here on earth. And tithing is a commandment that tests faith and obedience, not whether we can afford it.

Of course, there are also issues of paying tithes for the right reasons. To do it so as not to burn is not as great a reason as because one is valiant in their testimony and love of Christ and His kingdom.

Could I use the pay increase that would come from not paying tithes? Of course. But I dare not stop paying my tithes and offerings. My eternal nature and glory is of much greater importance to me than if I have a large LCD television and/or a new car in this life (I don't have either).

[Aphrodite]

yes I am better off temporally. I saw no blessings from paying tithing, spiritually or otherwise, even when I was all believeing. Those windows of blessings or whatever bypassed me. And if I am to believe I will 'burn' for not paying to belong to the church, then I really am better off out of it. I would be happy to make anonymous donations like in other churches but to keep a track on what Im earning, when Im paying, etc is intrusive.

By the way, I know it says bring tithes and offerings to the storehouse, but where in the scriptures does it say you cant go to the the temple or enter heaven? I honestly dont remember reading that anywhere. Thank you for your post, though.

[Misshalfway]

Paying tithing isn't about money. It isn't about paying to become more wealthy or not paying to preserve the wealth. Paying tithing says something about the person who is paying it. It says something of the way they obey and trust the Lord. It says something about faith. The paying of tithing stretches the faith and helps to expand it. And it is the key that opens the door to the vastness of Fathers blessings. It is a mechanism in which the Lord runs the earthly affairs of the kingdom of God. God asks us to participate in that effort. To promote it and to give our money to it. It is something that we all benefit from -- whether we pay or not. I suppose we all have our choice in whether or not we participate. But that is a choice that either allies us with the Lord or places us contrary to the will of the Lord and his purposes.

I don't know all the ways the Lord opens the windows of heaven but I know that sometimes, we can't always measure its effects by how much the Lord has blessed us on a balance sheet. I wonder sometimes when I hear that people don't see the hand of the lord bless them or withdraw blessings in their lives. If that is the case, then I wonder if that individual hasn't really tested the Lord and therefore doesn't really know the blessings. Or doesn't have the patience to wait on the Lord. One thing is for sure. If you don't test the Lord, how will you ever know the abundance he might give to you in material or spiritual things? How will you know what you are missing if yours is not a disciplined and prolonged effort? Of course Satan would want you to believe that God isn't working in your life. And that the paying of tithing is a meaningless exercise that only benefits the big-business end of the church. Or that any family that is poor or struggling they would be somehow exempt from paying because of course the Lord wouldn't expect them to pay. It is all the subtlety of satan's logic that gets us to stop paying or never to start. It is an effort to separate us from the Lord. To halt the growth of our faith. And to keep us from enjoying the blessings of committed and passionate discipleship. Maybe if you don't see the hand of the Lord, you should ask him to show you!

PS. Paying tithing doesn't ensure that life will not throw curve-balls. It doesn't always mean the tires won't deflate. And it doesn't always mean they will if you don't pay.

PSS. There is no official deadline to paying tithing. Some pay monthly, or weekly. Some pay annually. And some pay with chickens and grain. And it all equals out to a full tithe. Any restrictions an individual places upon themselves to pay tithing, is just that -- a personal restriction that helps them keep the law to the best of their ability. Which I completely support. But it shouldn't be extended to or used as a measuring stick for everyone. "Teach them correct principles, and let them govern themselves."

[Maya]

We havent paid our tithing for 18 months. Nothing drastic has gone wrong, and we're better off financially :)

Good you have not payed..you might have troublein using all you got!

I just payed the last bills with the last money we had...no more for food before 12th... and then someone wanted to by something I had for sale... I think we get food this month too! And besides I got stomac desiese so I dont even want to eat anything... same with my husband and other son... someone here said something about Gods humor...

[rameumptom]

One of the temple recommend interview questions is: are you paying an honest and complete tithe?

If you say, "no", then you will not receive a recommend or enter the temple.

Malachi 3 tells us:

7 ¶ Even from the days of your fathers ye are gone away from mine ordinances, and have not kept them. Return unto me, and I will return unto you, saith the Lord of hosts. But ye said, Wherein shall we return?

8 ¶ aWill a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings.

9 Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even this whole nation.

10 Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the Lord of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.

11 And I will rebuke the devourer for your sakes, and he shall not destroy the fruits of your ground; neither shall your vine cast her fruit before the time in the field, saith the Lord of hosts.

12 And all nations shall call you blessed: for ye shall be a delightsome land, saith the Lord of hosts.

This blessing is not necessarily material blessings, but many spiritual ones that are lost to those who do not obey it. I personally have seen many miracles and blessings occur, and I'm certain that obedience to tithing and other commandments is tied to it.

D&C 130 states:

20 There is a law, irrevocably decreed in heaven before the foundations of this world, upon which all blessings are predicated—

21 And when we obtain any blessing from God, it is by obedience to that law upon which it is predicated.

D&C 64 says:

23 Behold, now it is called today until the coming of the Son of Man, and verily it is a day of sacrifice, and a day for the tithing of my people; for he that is tithed shall not be burned at his coming.

24 For after today cometh the burning—this is speaking after the manner of the Lord—for verily I say, tomorrow all the proud and they that do wickedly shall be as stubble; and I will burn them up, for I am the Lord of Hosts; and I will not spare any that remain in Babylon.

25 Wherefore, if ye believe me, ye will labor while it is called today.

Those who are burned at Jesus' coming are ONLY the telestial people.

Remember how Jesus told the rich young man, who had kept the 10 commandments from his early days, to go and sell all his riches and give it to the poor and follow Jesus, and then he would have riches in heaven? The young man walked away sad, because he had many riches. He wasn't willing to give up all for the Lord, and so the Lord commented how hard it would be for the rich to get into heaven. He stated that it would be easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than a rich man to get into heaven. He also told the Pharisees to not neglect their tithing, but also ensure they were concentrating on the "weightier matters" that they were not taking care of. Yes, there are more important doctrines than tithing, but it still is important enough for us not to ignore it.

Why? Because where our hearts are there also is our treasure. Jesus did not jest when he said, "seek ye first the kingdom of heaven and its glory, and then all others things shall be added unto you." As I said before, too many Christians (LDS and other traditional Christians) sell their birthrights cheaply. And not just in refusing to pay tithes and offerings, but also in not taking up their cross and following Jesus on a daily basis. Testimony of Jesus, for many, is based upon a thin veneer of belief that vainly attempts to cover up sins and worldly desires.

But Jesus' call for the world to repent goes on. In latter days, he has commanded us to repent or suffer even as he suffered (D&C 19). Spirit prison hell is not a thing to trifle with, as the pain there is as exquisite as the pain Jesus suffered in Gethsemane and on the Cross.

So, just because a person has left the Church, does not mean that tithe paying is no longer an issue. It means we have accepted a bowl of porridge in place of a true birthright, and we'll have nothing to complain about later, as we were the ones that chose the lesser part - an earthly treasure that can rust and corrupt and thieves can enter in and steal. But when it comes time for the Lord to make up his jewels, those who did not pay the price of obedience and faith will be like the 5 unwise Virgins in the Lord's parable. At the time the Bridegroom comes, he will tell them to depart, for he does not know them.

It's our individual choice. Tithing is just one minor issue. Faith and obedience to God is the key issue.

[Misshalfway]

In Malachi it says "Will a man rob God?" All that we have is the Lord's in the first place down to the air in our lungs. He gives it all to us. Doesn't demand or force but he does ask that we give 10% back for the building of the Kingdom. We pay money to the Lord......not to the Church. The church is the steward of the money. Not the owner.

And yes, Mailis, God does have a sense of humor!

[rameumptom]

Almost 30 years ago on my mission, in Cochabamba Bolivia, I went with a member of the branch presidency to visit an inactive sister, Cleotilde. She explained that her husband had left her for a younger woman. She had 7 kids, with another on the way, and also taking care of her mother-in-law. All of this in an adobe shack about 12' x 12'. No electricity or plumbing. Dirt floors and adobe mud walls.

She said that she made a living selling toothpaste and shampoo off a cart. While working, her smallest children had to be in daycare. Her best selling day was Sunday, and that day's earnings paid for the daycare. I explained to her the Law of the Sabbath and that we are not to work, but to dedicate it to God. I promised her in the Lord's name that if she would live the Sabbath, the Lord would make it up to her in other ways; otherwise, I would pay for the daycare out of my own pocket. She began to attend Church. Soon, she asked me how to pay tithes. Her business increased on the other days of the week. The person washing the missionaries' clothing quit, so suddenly we were able to have her wash our clothing for a fair wage. Then the elder's quorum stepped up and built her a new adobe house, twice the size of the original, and installed electricity and a stone floor in it. The blessings continued to flow to her.

A year later, one of her children (nicknamed "Gringo") died when bitten by a rabid dog. I wrote to her, and she answered saying that Gringo had been taken to heaven and she only hoped she would continue faithful to be with him and the rest of the family someday. What faith!

Right after my mission, I hometaught a new member. He was living in a basement apartment and attending school on the G.I. bill. He asked me on one occasion how to handle a problem he had. He had enough money to pay his tithes or his rent, but not both. I was unemployed, thanks to Jimmy Carter's economic efforts, but believed in God's promise enough to tell him to pay his tithes. I told him that the Lord would make up the difference, and if he didn't, I would pay the rent. He paid his tithes. Two days before the rent was due, he received a letter from his mother (Oklahoma, and not a member). She told him that she was always putting money in a cookie jar in the kitchen for a rainy day. Something told her that he needed it, and so she sent it to him. It was exactly enough to pay the rent.

These are just two of the miracles and blessings I've seen from people being diligent in following Christ. I was able to make the promises I did, even though I didn't have the money to do it myself, because I know that God's promises are certain. I don't mind testing him through obedience, especially where he has made promises to the obedient.

D&C 82:10 states: "I the Lord am bound when ye do as I say, but when ye do not what I say, ye have no promise." I have lived by that premise since before my mission. And I know it to be true.

[Alaskagain]

Well, Aphrodite, it is certainly up to you as to what you want to do with your money. Paying tithing really isn't about the money, though; it is about faith. And paying it can really test your faith.

I tend to think of it as a sacred, appreciative offering, while DH tends to think of it as insurance -- "fire insurance", if you will -- and more of an obligation willingly paid.

Even though you feel you didn't receive an outpouring of blessings when you did pay your tithing, and you don't feel that you have missed out on any blessings since you have stopped paying tithing, I hope that you will reconsider your position.

Aside from keeping you from temple worship, and I’m not discounting the seriousness of that:

It’s one aspect of trying to grow spiritually. If you pay tithing, and then decide that you need the money too much, so you stop paying tithing, then that is one less spiritual thing you are doing in your life. What hapens then? Do you increase your scripture reading to make up for it? Do you go visiting teaching twice in the month to make up for it? Do you double your compassionate service to others? The answer is probably, No. And increasing in those other areas won’t make up for it, anyway, because it is a specific commandment with a specific blessing tied to it.

Not paying tithing might lead to not doing other spiritual things - well, I’ll skip reading tonight, because I’m so tired, and after all, I didn’t pay my tithing, and I didn’t get struck by lightning for it. Or, my visiting teachers haven’t come to see me this month, and I’m busy and I’m not going to go see the sisters I’m supposed to visit, either. It is a "slippery slope".

But the opposite is also true, especially if you feel there is not much spiritual left in your life. If you pick one thing of a spiritual nature that you are not doing, and start to do it consistently, even if you do it just because you are "supposed" to do it, you will find that it becomes easier and easier to do, and you will eventually find joy in doing it. And it becomes easier to do the second thing, and the third.

The choices we make help us to either climb the mountain, or roll back down into the valley. Will you think about it? :)

[Alaskagain]

I always pay my tithing and on time. But that didn't keep me from having 4 flat tires in 3 months once. Sadly, it was Jan-March, so I ended up changing them all in winter conditions. And I had just moved up to Indiana from Alabama and was already regretting the cold weather....

Sometimes I think it is just chance. And sometimes I think God has a cruel sense of humor....

FOUR tires!!! were they defective? or were you driving over nails all winter? No, I know what it was -- it was that SALT they put on the highway in those cold weather areas. . . . Your Alabama tires were not used to the chemical reaction -- asphalt, salt, friction . . . !!!! And, whatever possessed you to move from warm to cold?

I have been stranded at that reststop at near Columbus overnight in a blizzard on I-65. (Yes, I know the rest of you think I'm confused and talking about Ohio, but I am indeed referring to the great state of Indiana.)

The only place I like snow is with a little bitty plastic Christmas scene inside a GLOBE. Anyway, took me over 3 hours to get to Indy the next morning, walked into McDonalds to hear Paul Simon's "Slip, sliding away" blaring over the intercom.

If I ever go back, it will be in the summertime, when I will only have to worry about severe thunderstorms and tornados. I will make sure my tithing is paid first.

[WANDERER]

I pay taxes. Oh joy, in the 30% bracket. I feel blessed enough already really. But you know, 40% is doable. Almost half my income. Noting God's sense of humour and wondering if I should call it backtithing.

[rameumptom]

FOUR tires!!! were they defective? or were you driving over nails all winter? No, I know what it was -- it was that SALT they put on the highway in those cold weather areas. . . . Your Alabama tires were not used to the chemical reaction -- asphalt, salt, friction . . . !!!! And, whatever possessed you to move from warm to cold?

I have been stranded at that reststop at near Columbus overnight in a blizzard on I-65. (Yes, I know the rest of you think I'm confused and talking about Ohio, but I am indeed referring to the great state of Indiana.)

The only place I like snow is with a little bitty plastic Christmas scene inside a GLOBE. Anyway, took me over 3 hours to get to Indy the next morning, walked into McDonalds to hear Paul Simon's "Slip, sliding away" blaring over the intercom.

If I ever go back, it will be in the summertime, when I will only have to worry about severe thunderstorms and tornados. I will make sure my tithing is paid first.

Tires were not defective. Somehow, I found 4 nails on 4 different occasions during that timeframe. All hidden under the snow - it was a very snowy winter that year. And yes, Columbus on a blizzardy winter's night is not a very exciting place to be. Oh, and I moved up here because my wife was tired of the heat, and wanted something more moderate in temperature. Personally, I would have settled for northern Alabama or southern Tennessee for cooler temperature.

[Aphrodite]

Well, Aphrodite, it is certainly up to you as to what you want to do with your money. Paying tithing really isn't about the money, though; it is about faith. And paying it can really test your faith.

I tend to think of it as a sacred, appreciative offering, while DH tends to think of it as insurance -- "fire insurance", if you will -- and more of an obligation willingly paid.

Even though you feel you didn't receive an outpouring of blessings when you did pay your tithing, and you don't feel that you have missed out on any blessings since you have stopped paying tithing, I hope that you will reconsider your position.

Aside from keeping you from temple worship, and I’m not discounting the seriousness of that:

It’s one aspect of trying to grow spiritually. If you pay tithing, and then decide that you need the money too much, so you stop paying tithing, then that is one less spiritual thing you are doing in your life. What hapens then? Do you increase your scripture reading to make up for it? Do you go visiting teaching twice in the month to make up for it? Do you double your compassionate service to others? The answer is probably, No. And increasing in those other areas won’t make up for it, anyway, because it is a specific commandment with a specific blessing tied to it.

Not paying tithing might lead to not doing other spiritual things - well, I’ll skip reading tonight, because I’m so tired, and after all, I didn’t pay my tithing, and I didn’t get struck by lightning for it. Or, my visiting teachers haven’t come to see me this month, and I’m busy and I’m not going to go see the sisters I’m supposed to visit, either. It is a "slippery slope".

But the opposite is also true, especially if you feel there is not much spiritual left in your life. If you pick one thing of a spiritual nature that you are not doing, and start to do it consistently, even if you do it just because you are "supposed" to do it, you will find that it becomes easier and easier to do, and you will eventually find joy in doing it. And it becomes easier to do the second thing, and the third.

The choices we make help us to either climb the mountain, or roll back down into the valley. Will you think about it? :)

Bless u for that alaska you put things really well. I can tell u Ill think about it, but I am still not going to pay for now. I want to make some sort of donation, but I am reluctant because of the 'emotional blackmail' as I see it to pay. Plus I still have not seen a scripture that says 'unless thou payest tithing you are not permitted to enter the Lord's house'. TBH, Even if it existed, it wouldnt make much difference. I let my temple rec expire, my one from when I got married and I have no plans to go back to the temple. So I have no incentive to pay tithing really. I am not actively involved in church anymore, I was released from my calling, dont read scriptures and rarely pray. I go for my husband's sake really, as I now find church really boring, its a drag to go. I feel just as happy if not better without all the stressing and worrying about whether Im sinning or not. Im now living my life for me and including God in my own way and it feels better than ever. Thanks for ur advice. U gave the perfect church answers :) Ill let u no if anything changes tho.

Then the elder's quorum stepped up and built her a new adobe house, twice the size of the original, and installed electricity and a stone floor in it. The blessings continued to flow to her.

Why couldnt they have done that anyway???? Because she was inactive and didnt pay tithing? So she basically paid for it herself anyway! LOL

[Alaskagain]

Aphrodite, it is really nice that you go to church with your husband, even though you are not particularly active and have some doubts about things. It shows how much you love him by doing that.

[the Ogre]

. . . and if I am to believe I will 'burn' for not paying to belong to the church, then I really am better off out of it . . .

Bar-B-Que baby Bar-B-Que. Slow and low baby slow and low.

I love paying my tithing, but I know the L-rd loves me even if I don't. I doubt you left the church over tithing (that would be pretty trite if you did). I know the L-rd loves you and the nice thing about being a mormon is agency, so you get to choose the bar-b-que sauce. Or maybe you prefer a dry rub. Or maybe it's mustard you want slathered on your ribs when you get cooked for not paying up when you were supposed to.

Sorry, that burn bit got me going. (okay inhale quick three times)

If you are LDS, then tithing is important. Individual righteous is a personal thing, but I think modern revelation covers that part about tithing being important for temple worthiness.

(I know some people who like catsup based sauce, but mine has blueberries and cayenne pepper)

[NateHowe]

It comes down to the golden question: Is there a true Prophet of God on the Earth? If so, we should do what he says. If the Prophet said that we should get in a big ark because it was going to rain, hopefully we would do so. Let's do the small, simple things too, like paying tithing.

Now, if there is not a true prophet on the Earth, I suppose we can do whatever we want, but the Bible seems to indicate otherwise.

[rameumptom]

Why couldnt they have done that anyway???? Because she was inactive and didnt pay tithing? So she basically paid for it herself anyway! LOL

I suppose they could have built the house for her, anyway. But for me, the miracles come after the trial of faith. The issue is, God began to bless her and open up doors for Cleotilde when she did live the law of the Sabbath and the law of tithing.

We don't pay tithes to pay for what we get back from it. At least, I don't. I do it because I believe it to be a commandment of God, and I wish to obey Him.

I'm glad you are at peace and happy with your life. I hope that the day will come when you will feel the need for something greater. Putting God first, rather than oneself, is not an easy thing to do. It was even hard for Jesus to do in Gethsemane. I do not worry about every little sin in my life, and that is often a reason many leave the Church - because they are trying to save themselves, earning salvation.

It doesn't work that way. We are saved through the grace of Christ's atonement. I keep commandments, not because I am trying to earn his acceptance, but because I have faith. It pleases me to stretch myself in trying to become more like Jesus. But I do not pretend that my efforts do anything for me. King Benjamin taught that we could serve as hard as we can, and we'd still be unprofitable servants. All I can hope to do is become more like Christ, and in so doing, be able to stand/kneel in his presence.

I keep tithes, because I know it is what God would have me do. I attend the temple, because it helps me approach Him and stand in His presence. I learn something new in the temple every time I go, and I've gone for over 30 years. I also learn something new in Church almost every week - usually not from the speakers, but from the Spirit, as I seek to understand God's will for me in the events going on during the meetings. It is a matter of faith and personal revelation.

For the person who removes all spiritual responsibility, there will be an easier course. But the easiest course is when we love the Lord so intensely and so completely, that keeping the commandments are a pleasure, not a trial. Studying the scriptures is useless, unless it leads us to personal revelation and insight. Faith is useless, unless it moves us to greater joy and happiness.

Jesus taught the Nephite disciples that there are works of God, men and Satan. The works of men and Satan will bring pleasure for a season, but then comes the weeping and wailing (3 Ne 27). Why is that? Imagine the pleasure and happiness if someone were to give you a brand new Porsche. Then, imagine the frustration and misery when that Porsche gets wrapped around a telephone pole by your teenager. The things of this life are not necessarily bad. They just are temporary and only can provide a temporary happiness. Only in embracing God fully can we find a true and everlasting joy.