Provoke not to wrath, nurture and admonition?

[Guest tomk]

Eph. 6: 4. 4 And, ye afathers, bprovoke not your cchildren to wrath: but bring them up in the nurture and admonition of the Lord.

I invite others to explain the following phrases:

"provoke not your children to wrath"

and

"bring them up in the nurture and admonition of the Lord"

To me it seems like this verse is encouraging patience, and the honoring of our children's agency. The Lord is ever patient with us and He honors our agency.

But is there more to the story? Please help me understand this verse better. Thank you.

[WillowTheWhisp]

Is there one which says the children should provoke not their parents to wrath?

It's funny but I read that verse once and it seemed to be saying to me as a parent not to be doing anything which would cause my children to be angered - not necessarily getting angry with or losing patience with the children when trying to correct their faults but in more general terms with anything I may do in my life which may reflect badly on them, or by bringing them up in ways which are not of the Lord which may cause them to be wrathful with us when they realise we have let them down.

[Hemidakota]

Your link is Enos not Ephesians.

Paul's writing reminds me of the verse in D&C 68:25,

"And again, inasmuch as parents have children in Zion, or in any of her stakes which are organized, that teach them not to understand the doctrine of repentance, faith in Christ the Son of the living God, and of baptism and the gift of the Holy Ghost by the laying on of the hands, when eight years old, the sin be upon the heads of the parents."

Emphasis is on home gospel instructions, which the General Authorities throughout time since Joseph Smith instructs us as parents to teach and raise our children love, and raise up them with nurture and admonition of the Lord.

The prophet Joseph Smith received this revelations that us, as parents, "...bring up your children in light and truth" [D&C 93:40] and teach them "to understand the doctrine of repentance, faith in Christ the Son of the living God, and baptism and the gift of the Holy Ghost" [D&C 68:25]; and "to pray, and to walk uprightly before the Lord" [D&C 68:28].

President Young urged parents to take the time to "call their families together...teach them the principles of the gospel." [MFP 2:288]

[Vanhin]

It also reminds me of the words king Benjamin from the Book of Mormon:

14 And ye will not suffer your children that they go hungry, or naked; neither will ye suffer that they transgress the laws of God, and fight and quarrel one with another, and serve the devil, who is the master of sin, or who is the evil spirit which hath been spoken of by our fathers, he being an enemy to all righteousness.

15 But ye will teach them to walk in the ways of truth and soberness; ye will teach them to love one another, and to serve one another. (Mosiah 4:14-15)

Vanhin

[Guest tomk]

Is there one which says the children should provoke not their parents to wrath?

Yeah, it's called pick up your room. :)

It's funny but I read that verse once and it seemed to be saying to me as a parent not to be doing anything which would cause my children to be angered - not necessarily getting angry with or losing patience with the children when trying to correct their faults but in more general terms with anything I may do in my life which may reflect badly on them, or by bringing them up in ways which are not of the Lord which may cause them to be wrathful with us when they realise we have let them down.

The "wrath" of the Lord is enduring the consequences of our choices which go contrary to His commandments, is it not?

So, we are not provoking our children to rebel? Because if they do, they only hurt themselves?

[Guest tomk]

It also reminds me of the words king Benjamin from the Book of Mormon:

14 And ye will not suffer your children that they go hungry, or naked; neither will ye suffer that they transgress the laws of God, and fight and quarrel one with another, and serve the devil, who is the master of sin, or who is the evil spirit which hath been spoken of by our fathers, he being an enemy to all righteousness.

15 But ye will teach them to walk in the ways of truth and soberness; ye will teach them to love one another, and to serve one another. (Mosiah 4:14-15)

Vanhin

Vanhin:

I really appreciated your comments.

What are your thoughts on this phrase:

And ye will not suffer your children that they go hungry, or naked;

The thought enters my mind that there are many ways to "go hungry" or "go naked" -- not just the obvious ways.

Most parents don't suffer their children to literally "go hungry" or "go naked" (although my wife and I have had a few "streakers" now and again).

But they can be spiritually "hungry" -- right?

They can be spiritually "naked" (no defenses).

Your thoughts?

[Guest tomk]

Your link is Enos not Ephesians.

Paul's writing reminds me of the verse in D&C 68:25,

"And again, inasmuch as parents have children in Zion, or in any of her stakes which are organized, that teach them not to understand the doctrine of repentance, faith in Christ the Son of the living God, and of baptism and the gift of the Holy Ghost by the laying on of the hands, when eight years old, the sin be upon the heads of the parents."

Emphasis is on home gospel instructions, which the General Authorities throughout time since Joseph Smith instructs us as parents to teach and raise our children love, and raise up them with nurture and admonition of the Lord.

The prophet Joseph Smith received this revelations that us, as parents, "...bring up your children in light and truth" [D&C 93:40] and teach them "to understand the doctrine of repentance, faith in Christ the Son of the living God, and baptism and the gift of the Holy Ghost" [D&C 68:25]; and "to pray, and to walk uprightly before the Lord" [D&C 68:28].

President Young urged parents to take the time to "call their families together...teach them the principles of the gospel." [MFP 2:288]

No, it was from Ephesians.

But Enos has some striking parallels!!!

1 Behold, it came to pass that I, Enos, knowing my father that he was a just man—for he taught me in his language [THINK AMMON AND KING LAMONI], and also in the nurture and admonition of the Lord—and blessed be the name of my God for it—

GRATITUDE FOR REALIZING HOW FORTUNATE HE WAS TO HAVE BEEN RAISED BY PARENTS WHO LOVED AND TAUGHT THE GOSPEL

2 And I will tell you of the wrestle which I had before God, before I received a remission of my sins.

3 Behold, I went to hunt beasts in the forests; and the words which I had often heard my father speak [HIS FATHER RAISED HIM CORRECTLY, HE RAISED HIM IN THE "NURTURE AND ADMONITION" OF THE LORD!!]concerning eternal life, and the joy of the saints, sunk deep into my heart.

4 And my soul hungered; and I kneeled down before my Maker, and I cried unto him in mighty prayer and supplication for mine own soul; and all the day long did I cry unto him; yea, and when the night came I did still raise my voice high that it reached the heavens.

5 And there came a voice unto me, saying: Enos, thy sins are forgiven thee, and thou shalt be blessed.

[Hemidakota]

True. Same as with Nephi, "..I was taught somewhat." Interesting to see this statement since Lehi was called as a prophet and noting that Nephi did not receive his testimony until they were travelling in the desert.

[Misshalfway]

I think I know what it was like to be a kid and have my parents provoke me to anger. It never happened when they were centered and trying to teach me right from wrong. It didn't happen when they were trying to point out my faults or misdeeds and they needed a firm stance to drive home the message. It happened when they were selfish and unrighteously angry within themselves. It happened when their own stressors outweighed their self control and I was in the crossfire.

In my own experience as a parent, there is nothing like kids to push all my buttons! Including my anger buttons!! My oldest boy was very difficult in his early days. And being a first time parent, and not having a diagnosis to help me, I made lots of mistakes. I didn't control my temper as I should. And I saw my son provoked to wrath. The Spirit taught me in those moments what I think those scriptures are trying to say. These times happened to me when I stopped thinking about the wellfare and upbringing of my son, and got fixated on my selfish needs.

No parent is perfect. And sometimes the above mentioned scriptures can give LDS parents anxiety while we all try so hard to be perfect at our admonitions and lessons and at the same time carry many heavy burdens brought upon by these last days. I think the trick is finding balance.....and applying forgiveness!!! Forgiveness for children and all the things they do! And forgiveness for ourselves, as we stumble thru the world of parenthood without expert training beforehand.

[Vanhin]

Vanhin:

I really appreciated your comments.

What are your thoughts on this phrase:

And ye will not suffer your children that they go hungry, or naked;

The thought enters my mind that there are many ways to "go hungry" or "go naked" -- not just the obvious ways.

Most parents don't suffer their children to literally "go hungry" or "go naked" (although my wife and I have had a few "streakers" now and again).

But they can be spiritually "hungry" -- right?

They can be spiritually "naked" (no defenses).

Your thoughts?

Thanks for asking Tom. In addition to the obvious, where we are to provide for their needs physically, it reminds me to ensure that the home is one where the influence of the Spirit is present, where their spiritual needs are met. It goes hand in hand with verse 15. Tha Savior taught:

And blessed are all they who do hunger and thirst after righteousness, for they shall be filled with the Holy Ghost. (3 Ne. 12:6)

Regards,

Vanhin

[Guest tomk]

True. Same as with Nephi, "..I was taught somewhat." Interesting to see this statement since Lehi was called as a prophet and noting that Nephi did not receive his testimony until they were travelling in the desert.

I have been pondering this lately.

Nephi's call did not come until AFTER they had left!!!!

In fact, it was Nephi's hard heart that brought Him to the Lord -- begging the Lord to "soften his heart" so that he would not rebel "like unto his brethren"

I've been imagining what it would be like for my family. If one day I came home from work and said, "Pack your bags, kids, we're leaving Salt Lake." They'd be terrified. They'd honestly wonder if I had lost my mind! And if I told them I had "had a vision" they would REALLY wonder if I had lost my mind then!!!

I picture ALL of Lehi's sons going through feelings like this. Not just Laman and Lemuel, but Nephi and Sam, too! Notice that after the Lord visited Nephi, Nephi went looking for Sam, probably because Nephi knew Sam was struggling similarly with their father's decision!

I can't utter all that I feel -- but I must say that never has Lehi's trip through the wilderness felt so "REAL" to me.

[Hemidakota]

True.